I understand that and don't necessarily disagree, which is why I think she went in with an attitude that set the judge off. I just know that is how it was handled when I worked in a court, and the judge HATED when people brought their kids in against the rules. However, it was never someone who was sorry or upset they had to do that - it was always someone who was just trying to prove a point and came in with an attitude of entitled "I shouldn't have to serve, I have kids! It's too hard for me!" Like they were showing the judge they should have been given an automatic exemption.
Maybe she is, and maybe I would totally hate her if I met her personally. But I still think the system is really screwed up. That if you need an "I don't have childcare" exemption, you have to....get childcare.
I don't really disagree, and I also think while there was an accommodation (bringing someone with), it's debatable as to whether it was reasonable or enough. I think the way ESF has described her county's practices makes the most sense to make it fair and not eliminate whole groups from the jury pool (because let's face it if you can take an exemption, you will, even if you don't really need to, in most cases). I also know I'm biased from my own experience in dealing with jury selection (from the judge's side, not an attorney's side) and it is an incredibly stressful and frustrating experience, plus you have to deal with all kinds of whining (99% of which is just bullshit). Also, some counties set ups are pretty archaic which is probably why they don't allow for a mail/phone/email exemption and insist on people showing up so they can keep track (along with the judge wanting to discern whether the reason is real or bullshit). Probably this is most common in smaller counties and some updating might also alleviate these issues.
I don't get how paying $100 in childcare is a different hardship than losing $100 in income.
Because getting a $600 paycheck instead of a $700 paycheck isn't the same as having to pay a (usually cash-only) babysitter WHEN YOU SIMPLY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.
If you need that $700 to pay bills and make ends meet at the end of the month, then you're in the same situation of trying to make $100 appear out of thin air.
What if she had nobody to bring with her? I keep asking this and you keep not responding.
Because I flat out don't believe that in a month since the summons was issued, she couldn't find someone to come with her to the courthouse for a couple hours.
I just don't.
Asking or paying someone to sit in the hallway of a courthouse for a couple hours does not require the same level of trust as finding someone to keep your kid in their home, your home, or day care center.
yeah, honestly - this is where I'm at too.
If you somehow, really, TRULY can't in a months time find a single person you trust enough to sit in the hallway of the county courthouse with your baby between feedings while you wait for your turn to explain to the judge that you're EBFing a baby who refuses a bottle - welp - you have issues larger than jury duty. Look into therapy for whatever it is that makes you unable to interact with humans in the real world in a normal way.
After much thought I'm comfortable with my lack of empathy in this case since clearly this woman does not actually suffer from a crippling level of social anxiety. (based on the fact that she's since been on GMA) eta: apparently that was lies! Or i just can't read. So maybe she really doesn't talk to anybody except her husband at all, ever.
(of course this assumes that the month's notice part of this is accurate, and also that the system is just set up in such a way that you have to claim your hardships in person rather than over the phone and not that somebody on the phone was jsut being a hardass.)
I just googled around and found an article that specified more dates. She was originally called for jury duty in January, and requested a deferment because she was pregnant (this was granted) and she had the baby in March. She was summoned again on August 9, to appear on Sept. 3, and when she called in to request another deferment, they told her no, she had to appear and ask for a second deferment in person with the judge, when she appeared with everyone on jury duty call. She was told not to bring the baby to jury call, and she did anyway. That's what pissed off the judge, I am willing to bet. (btw everyone who comes to court in my jurisdiction is told not to bring children into the courtroom, regardless of type of case. People still do it in family court, and they're occasionally found in contempt for bringing the child)
This cements my opinion of this woman thinking she is a special snowflake.
I don't get how paying $100 in childcare is a different hardship than losing $100 in income while you often are also paying $100 for childcare.
I do think calling in every night is absurd regardless your situation.
FIFY
I'm guessing many of the people who don't live near family don't live near family because work and educational opportunities lead them out of state. In other words, for many, not living near family has been a choice people have been able to make due to privileged circumstances in life.
Before I get bombarded with anecdotes from people who claim I don't know their lyfe!11!, I will be clear: I am not saying that every working class person has a network of lovable, trustworthy relatives nearby, or that everyone who doesn't live near family is in that situation because of a rosy life.
Let's be realistic here. The financially strapped SAHMs living in isolation are just not that compelling of a poster child for a cruel jury service system.
I just googled around and found an article that specified more dates. She was originally called for jury duty in January, and requested a deferment because she was pregnant (this was granted) and she had the baby in March. She was summoned again on August 9, to appear on Sept. 3, and when she called in to request another deferment, they told her no, she had to appear and ask for a second deferment in person with the judge, when she appeared with everyone on jury duty call. She was told not to bring the baby to jury call, and she did anyway. That's what pissed off the judge, I am willing to bet. (btw everyone who comes to court in my jurisdiction is told not to bring children into the courtroom, regardless of type of case. People still do it in family court, and they're occasionally found in contempt for bringing the child)
I once saw a guy get excused from jury duty because he owned an air conditioning repair service, and it was the hottest day of the year. I still don't know if the judge excused him because he was going to lose so much money or because he wanted people with broken air conditioners to be able to get them fixed.
#random
I saw a woman excused because she sobbed that she just couldn't handle cases involving small children. The judge rolled his eyes and the lawyers pretty much agreed that unstable people do not make good jurors.
I also saw quite a few excused because they fell asleep during voir dire.
I saw someone be excused from a sexual molestation case because she freaked out and said she worked with children and couldn't handle it. The attorneys seemed to try and get more out of her, but it ended with her basically yelling she thought all men were child molesters. She also threw some god talk in for good measure.
Personally, I was convinced she was playing at crazy to get excused because it was all over the place.
I just googled around and found an article that specified more dates. She was originally called for jury duty in January, and requested a deferment because she was pregnant (this was granted) and she had the baby in March. She was summoned again on August 9, to appear on Sept. 3, and when she called in to request another deferment, they told her no, she had to appear and ask for a second deferment in person with the judge, when she appeared with everyone on jury duty call. She was told not to bring the baby to jury call, and she did anyway. That's what pissed off the judge, I am willing to bet. (btw everyone who comes to court in my jurisdiction is told not to bring children into the courtroom, regardless of type of case. People still do it in family court, and they're occasionally found in contempt for bringing the child)
Well then.
Unless you're having complications, I think it's dumb to defer jury duty for being pregnant. I mean, you do know what comes *after* being pregnant, don't you?
I don't get how paying $100 in childcare is a different hardship than losing $100 in income.
Because getting a $600 paycheck instead of a $700 paycheck isn't the same as having to pay a (usually cash-only) babysitter WHEN YOU SIMPLY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.
So a two income household taking home $700 a week and paying for child care can absorb a $100 hit to their income, but a one income household taking home $700 a week is suffering when asked to pay $100 for childcare?
I just googled around and found an article that specified more dates. She was originally called for jury duty in January, and requested a deferment because she was pregnant (this was granted) and she had the baby in March. She was summoned again on August 9, to appear on Sept. 3, and when she called in to request another deferment, they told her no, she had to appear and ask for a second deferment in person with the judge, when she appeared with everyone on jury duty call. She was told not to bring the baby to jury call, and she did anyway. That's what pissed off the judge, I am willing to bet. (btw everyone who comes to court in my jurisdiction is told not to bring children into the courtroom, regardless of type of case. People still do it in family court, and they're occasionally found in contempt for bringing the child)
Well then.
Unless you're having complications, I think it's dumb to defer jury duty for being pregnant. I mean, you do know what comes *after* being pregnant, don't you?
I just googled around and found an article that specified more dates. She was originally called for jury duty in January, and requested a deferment because she was pregnant (this was granted) and she had the baby in March. She was summoned again on August 9, to appear on Sept. 3, and when she called in to request another deferment, they told her no, she had to appear and ask for a second deferment in person with the judge, when she appeared with everyone on jury duty call. She was told not to bring the baby to jury call, and she did anyway. That's what pissed off the judge, I am willing to bet. (btw everyone who comes to court in my jurisdiction is told not to bring children into the courtroom, regardless of type of case. People still do it in family court, and they're occasionally found in contempt for bringing the child)
How very unsurprising.
Maybe she should have saved her deferment for later! I guarantee her actions leading up to this made the judge angry and that's why she was held in contempt with a judge who regularly grants exemptions. She probably could have gotten a second deferment if she had brought someone with her. What a dolt. I also would bet $ that she had someone who could have come with her, but she didn't do it because she's a lazy heifer who doesn't want to do jury duty since she claimed pregnancy would make it too hard to serve. Ridiculous.
I just googled around and found an article that specified more dates. She was originally called for jury duty in January, and requested a deferment because she was pregnant (this was granted) and she had the baby in March. She was summoned again on August 9, to appear on Sept. 3, and when she called in to request another deferment, they told her no, she had to appear and ask for a second deferment in person with the judge, when she appeared with everyone on jury duty call. She was told not to bring the baby to jury call, and she did anyway. That's what pissed off the judge, I am willing to bet. (btw everyone who comes to court in my jurisdiction is told not to bring children into the courtroom, regardless of type of case. People still do it in family court, and they're occasionally found in contempt for bringing the child)
Well then.
Unless you're having complications, I think it's dumb to defer jury duty for being pregnant. I mean, you do know what comes *after* being pregnant, don't you?
oh, I wasn't the only one thinking that? Good to know.
Unless you're having complications, I think it's dumb to defer jury duty for being pregnant. I mean, you do know what comes *after* being pregnant, don't you?
She couldn't find anyone to watch her fetus. It happens.
If you somehow, really, TRULY can't in a months time find a single person you trust enough to sit in the hallway of the county courthouse with your baby between feedings while you wait for your turn to explain to the judge that you're EBFing a baby who refuses a bottle - welp - you have issues larger than jury duty. Look into therapy for whatever it is that makes you unable to interact with humans in the real world in a normal way.
After much thought I'm comfortable with my lack of empathy in this case since clearly this woman does not actually suffer from a crippling level of social anxiety. (based on the fact that she's since been on GMA) eta: apparently that was lies! Or i just can't read. So maybe she really doesn't talk to anybody except her husband at all, ever.
(of course this assumes that the month's notice part of this is accurate, and also that the system is just set up in such a way that you have to claim your hardships in person rather than over the phone and not that somebody on the phone was jsut being a hardass.)
i love this so much i want to fuck it, make a baby with it and then find a sitter to sit with the baby in the halls while i show up for a jury duty summons
I have been watching a lot of 30 Rock lately, so I was hoping you were going to say you wanted to take it out behind a middle school and get it pregnant.
I wish I lived in one of these places with tons of stay at home moms that were happy to exchange child care and spend lots of time together every week. this thread is making me really depressed because I thought that was what SAHM life might be like and it is not at all despite my best efforts.
I live in an upper middle class town and moms simply are not interested in exchanging child care. I have been a part of several playgrouos and they have all fizzled out over time as people started signing their toddlers up for preschool 5 mornings a week in addition to art and music and whatever else. Now that my older son is approaching 3, most of the moms I have met over time (no friends really, but many acquaintances) have had a second child and would now really not be able to take on my two kids for a day.
I really don't understand this attitude of COME ON! Of course you SAHMs are all friends and trade child care and surely you can find somebody! People post on these forums all of the time talking about how hard it is to make friends as an adult, and I can assure you that in many places it is very difficult to make friends as a SAHM too.
I'm lucky. If push came to shove I could throw money at the problem and could figure out some sort of verified nanny (agency?), but I think the people posting about how a SAHM must have options must be really out of touch with modern parenting "communities" in many places.
I just googled around and found an article that specified more dates. She was originally called for jury duty in January, and requested a deferment because she was pregnant (this was granted) and she had the baby in March. She was summoned again on August 9, to appear on Sept. 3, and when she called in to request another deferment, they told her no, she had to appear and ask for a second deferment in person with the judge, when she appeared with everyone on jury duty call. She was told not to bring the baby to jury call, and she did anyway. That's what pissed off the judge, I am willing to bet. (btw everyone who comes to court in my jurisdiction is told not to bring children into the courtroom, regardless of type of case. People still do it in family court, and they're occasionally found in contempt for bringing the child)
Okay, if that's all true she had more than a month's notice. She may have only gotten the specific date a month in advance but clearly she was aware she had already deferred once. I have a fairly "special snowflake" situation and I still would find a way to not bring my kids for jury duty that I was aware was coming, whether it was that DH took off or worked from home or I found someone, anyone.
If you somehow, really, TRULY can't in a months time find a single person you trust enough to sit in the hallway of the county courthouse with your baby between feedings while you wait for your turn to explain to the judge that you're EBFing a baby who refuses a bottle - welp - you have issues larger than jury duty. Look into therapy for whatever it is that makes you unable to interact with humans in the real world in a normal way.
After much thought I'm comfortable with my lack of empathy in this case since clearly this woman does not actually suffer from a crippling level of social anxiety. (based on the fact that she's since been on GMA) eta: apparently that was lies! Or i just can't read. So maybe she really doesn't talk to anybody except her husband at all, ever.
(of course this assumes that the month's notice part of this is accurate, and also that the system is just set up in such a way that you have to claim your hardships in person rather than over the phone and not that somebody on the phone was jsut being a hardass.)
i love this so much i want to fuck it, make a baby with it and then find a sitter to sit with the baby in the halls while i show up for a jury duty summons
with a month's notice I'd fly out to visit you and watch my grandbaby in the hallway
I wish I lived in one of these places with tons of stay at home moms that were happy to exchange child care and spend lots of time together every week. this thread is making me really depressed because I thought that was what SAHM life might be like and it is not at all despite my best efforts.
I live in an upper middle class town and moms simply are not interested in exchanging child care. I have been a part of several playgrouos and they have all fizzled out over time as people started signing their toddlers up for preschool 5 mornings a week in addition to art and music and whatever else. Now that my older son is approaching 3, most of the moms I have met over time (no friends really, but many acquaintances) have had a second child and would now really not be able to take on my two kids for a day.
I really don't understand this attitude of COME ON! Of course you SAHMs are all friends and trade child care and surely you can find somebody! People post on these forums all of the time talking about how hard it is to make friends as an adult, and I can assure you that in many places it is very difficult to make friends as a SAHM too.
I'm lucky. If push came to shove I could throw money at the problem and could figure out some sort of verified nanny (agency?), but I think the people posting about how a SAHM must have options must be really out of touch with modern parenting "communities" in many places.
That's been my experience too. Being a SAHM has been the loneliest I've been in my entire life. I love being with my kids, but I haven't made a true friend since college. Not one of my childhood, HS or college friends has a child yet, nor do any live near me.
I wish I lived in one of these places with tons of stay at home moms that were happy to exchange child care and spend lots of time together every week. this thread is making me really depressed because I thought that was what SAHM life might be like and it is not at all despite my best efforts.
I live in an upper middle class town and moms simply are not interested in exchanging child care. I have been a part of several playgrouos and they have all fizzled out over time as people started signing their toddlers up for preschool 5 mornings a week in addition to art and music and whatever else. Now that my older son is approaching 3, most of the moms I have met over time (no friends really, but many acquaintances) have had a second child and would now really not be able to take on my two kids for a day.
I really don't understand this attitude of COME ON! Of course you SAHMs are all friends and trade child care and surely you can find somebody! People post on these forums all of the time talking about how hard it is to make friends as an adult, and I can assure you that in many places it is very difficult to make friends as a SAHM too.
I'm lucky. If push came to shove I could throw money at the problem and could figure out some sort of verified nanny (agency?), but I think the people posting about how a SAHM must have options must be really out of touch with modern parenting "communities" in many places.
Sigh.
A SAHM in an upper middle class town with no friends really isn't a great poster child for why jury duty should be reformed.
Keep trying people. Maybe one of you will give me an actual story of hardship.
Well I think the point is that between day care, babysitters, family, friends, and neighbors its hard to imagine not being able to get a sitter at all especially a month in advance.
Yes, and the woman in this story maybe could have.
but as I have said, in my area, and all of the areas that I have lived recently, you get a summons to call in every evening for a week or two and only find out the evening before if you have to actually go in... So... For many people it would not be finding a babysitter for one day with a month notice.
I saw a woman excused because she sobbed that she just couldn't handle cases involving small children. The judge rolled his eyes and the lawyers pretty much agreed that unstable people do not make good jurors.
I also saw quite a few excused because they fell asleep during voir dire.
I saw someone be excused from a sexual molestation case because she freaked out and said she worked with children and couldn't handle it. The attorneys seemed to try and get more out of her, but it ended with her basically yelling she thought all men were child molesters. She also threw some god talk in for good measure.
Personally, I was convinced she was playing at crazy to get excused because it was all over the place.
Post by cattledogkisses on Oct 21, 2013 16:07:05 GMT -5
With the added information that she's deferred twice, she sounds like someone just trying to get out of doing her duty, and I understand why the judge got annoyed with her.
And I'm side-eying deferring for being pregnant, unless you're high risk/on bedrest/etc.
Well I think the point is that between day care, babysitters, family, friends, and neighbors its hard to imagine not being able to get a sitter at all especially a month in advance.
Yes, and the woman in this story maybe could have.
but as I have said, in my area, and all of the areas that I have lived recently, you get a summons to call in every evening for a week or two and only find out the evening before if you have to actually go in... So... For many people it would not be finding a babysitter for one day with a month notice.
Do you know what happens if you call ahead of your scheduled time and explain that you have childcare issues? Because they'd need to be unwilling to issue over the phone deferments in order for that situation to be relevant.
Well, to be fair, I don't trade childcare with any regularity, but I know it's an option if I'm in a pinch. It's certainly not a common occurrence for me. In fact, it's not happened yet, but the offers have been made on both sides.
I would also agree it's lonely, but I know for me part of that is my own attitude and inability to connect with people. I'm just not a joiner, and 99% of people annoy me. Yet, I've managed to become friendly with a few people that I think I could rely on if necessary and am happy to help them out as needed.
But maybe my bar is low, because I'd rather read or be by myself anyway, so I'm happy if I don't actively hate the people I have gotten to know or have to spend time with. Caveat: I do have friends I talk to every day that are true friends; they just don't live near me. If I didn't have that contact, I'd probably feel lonelier and more isolated (which I do feel sometimes, but I don't really mind it due to aforementioned hatred of people). I've never really felt a need to have a lot of friends though - if anything the idea of it makes me more anxious. OMG, I am a weirdo. Sorry for the navel gazing.
Maybe she should have saved her deferment for later! I guarantee her actions leading up to this made the judge angry and that's why she was held in contempt with a judge who regularly grants exemptions. She probably could have gotten a second deferment if she had brought someone with her. What a dolt. I also would bet $ that she had someone who could have come with her, but she didn't do it because she's a lazy heifer who doesn't want to do jury duty since she claimed pregnancy would make it too hard to serve. Ridiculous.
I lied. I'm not out. If she was called for jury duty in January, her date was for February and her due date was in March, so she was probably thinking, "Wait, if I get selected, and I deliver at 37 weeks (term), I might be on trial." So she asked for a deferment for reasons that make total sense to me. Apparently, the folks at the old courthouse are unclear about what comes after the due date, because they then called her less than a year later. This is why, although I love the one time deferment rule that ESF has proposed, you will need something in addition to that. Like a check this box, sign this affidavit system because you will still have people who have either situations like this, or simple coincidences (out of the country during first summons, family emergency during the second one). And I still get back to the fact that the end goal should be to encourage people to "pay their debt" while setting up a system that is efficient and gets you a pool of people who actually CAN serve.
As an aside, I'm really struggling with trying to figure out whether the fact that her son is named Axel makes it more or less likely that she could afford a babysitter. At first I'm like, No way. Then, I was like, Maybe Gwen Staffani had another kid.
She was eligible for a second deferment though, if she had just shown up without the baby or with a caregiver for it. So it's not like they were like "tough luck, you will have to serve!" She just had to request her next deferment in person. Maybe that's too onerous, but IDK. I think that's reasonable enough that you have to go an extra step after your first deferment.