Mast cell tumor in dog (ETA clicky poll)

[Deleted]

Our now 9-year-old boxer mix had a medium-ish sized mast cell tumor removed in about 2007.  At that time, the Dr. said we could do chemo as an extra measure of security or, his recommendation, we could just wait it out and see if it came back.  Six years later, it has (small tumor, removed on Friday).  The vet is again saying he could refer us to an oncologist, but it will be expensive, and he's not sure that it's necessary, since they got clean margins again, and the last time it worked for 6 years.  The lab report seemed to say that there's no indication of metastasizing, though I'm not sure I completely understood everything over the phone (going in for an in-person on Monday).  My vet serves a poor population, so I think he tends to eschew recommending $$$ treatments, but he has served us very well through the years.  We can afford $$$ treatments, but obviously don't want to go through expensive and painful treatments if they aren't necessary or ultimately helpful.  I have the feeling that if we go to an oncologist, we will be told that it's absolutely necessary, and I'd be easy to convince since at least I'd feel like I'd done everything I could.  I think back in 2007, the vet said another option would be to remove his back leg as a preventative measure (it's recurring in his knee), but he didn't recommend it at the time. 

I'm not really looking for medical advice, since I have plenty of that, just experiences, I guess, and a WWYD at this point?  I really wish the experts could give a definite answer rather than choices!  I feel completely unqualified to make choices like this.  But I know that's not how bodies work.

CallingAllAngels

ETA: Adding a poll cause I know I'll get more opinions that way.

[CallingAllAngels]

I can tell you our experiences, but they are pretty different. My dog's tumor is inoperable - it is in her snout and was causing serious nosebleeds. Our options were basically to pursue treatment or put her down. Wait and see wasn't really an option for us. I think in your position I would wait and hope to again get several good years with her before it comes back. I think I would talk to an oncologist before removing his leg though.

If you do want to talk to an oncologist, ours has not been pushy about treatment at all. I think they get that not everyone has unlimited funds to spend. If you do talk to one, they can give you more information about the likelihood of the tumor recurring and/or metastasizing, etc.

Good luck! I hope you feel better about whatever decision you make after talking to your vet on Monday.

[Deleted]

Thank you. I know you said your dog was tolerating the treatment pretty well. Did the oncologist talk to you about whether that's common or whether it depends on the dog and the type of medication (that's what I've heard for people, anyway)? Good to know it wasn't too much scare mongering. We had a couple of vets before finding our current one that always wanted to run $2,000 worth of tests (not kidding) every time we took him in. We paid it a few times before finding our vet, who seems to hone in on a problem with a lot more skill and experience for <$500. It's made me wary.

[CallingAllAngels]

Dogs typically do really well with chemo and don't have the same side effects as humans. Our dog has had no issues, but hers is a low-dose oral chemo. Radiation she also did not have any issues. The only change we have seen is that she seems to be more hungry, but her oncologist said that is not a documented side effect of any of her medications. So who knows what is causing that.

The most expensive thing by far were the diagnostic tests. She needed two CT scans - one for diagnosis and another to plan for radiation since the angle of the diagnostic scans were not perfect. I think just the scans were between $3500-4000, but that may have also included her biopsy. It's insane. Her chemo is about $100/month and the radiation treatments were about $500/each - she did one per week for 6 weeks. Yes, we have put some serious money into this dog, but she is fairly young (6 years old) and otherwise very healthy. Also, like I said, the prognosis for doing nothing was very poor, so we kind of felt like it was all or nothing. These numbers are just ballparks. I've kind of been turning a blind eye to exactly how much we have spending.

[Deleted]

Nov 6, 2013 15:08:30 GMT -5 CallingAllAngels said:

Dogs typically do really well with chemo and don't have the same side effects as humans. Our dog has had no issues, but hers is a low-dose oral chemo. Radiation she also did not have any issues. The only change we have seen is that she seems to be more hungry, but her oncologist said that is not a documented side effect of any of her medications. So who knows what is causing that.

The most expensive thing by far were the diagnostic tests. She needed two CT scans - one for diagnosis and another to plan for radiation since the angle of the diagnostic scans were not perfect. I think just the scans were between $3500-4000, but that may have also included her biopsy. It's insane. Her chemo is about $100/month and the radiation treatments were about $500/each - she did one per week for 6 weeks. Yes, we have put some serious money into this dog, but she is fairly young (6 years old) and otherwise very healthy. Also, like I said, the prognosis for doing nothing was very poor, so we kind of felt like it was all or nothing. These numbers are just ballparks. I've kind of been turning a blind eye to exactly how much we have spending.

Thank you for all this.  Very, very helpful.  You're right that your options were a little more cut-and-dried.  And you're an awesome dog mom.  Sorry, one last question: did you end up doing any holistic consults? And if so, did you feel like it has been helpful at all?  My neighbor has one she used for her cat for herbal treatments, and the cat has long outlived our shared vet's survival estimate, so I'm wondering if there's anything to it.  Could just be that our vet is a terrific surgeon, or the cat is just a super-cat.

[mmp]

I had a dog that had a MCT removed, clean margins. We never did anything else, and it never returned. He had many lumps after that, but all benign.

Clean margins.....just have future bumps aspirated to see if anything returns . I wouldn't do anything else.
I got to the point that I stopped checking every bump. They were always just sebaceous cysts.
Did they tell you what grade it was?

[Deleted]

Nov 8, 2013 9:48:04 GMT -5 mmp said:

I had a dog that had a MCT removed, clean margins. We never did anything else, and it never returned. He had many lumps after that, but all benign.

Clean margins.....just have future bumps aspirated to see if anything returns . I wouldn't do anything else.
I got to the point that I stopped checking every bump. They were always just sebaceous cysts.
Did they tell you what grade it was?

I think the report said II.  The lab report said it could go either way; could go away and be fine, could spread.  One negative this time is that the depth margin was pretty small, 1mm, but the vet doesn't want to go back in.  I'm not sure if that's because there's already a sizeable chunk of dog missing there from the first surgeries and this one.  Dh is in favor of watching and waiting for now, I think.  I'm undecided still, so I'll probably just go with whatever DH wants, since he and the dog are BFFs.  Also, I was wrong.  I thought it was 2007 before, but it turns out that was the year of the other big health scare we've had with him.  His cancer was in 2010, so the surgery didn't hold it off for as long as I remembered   Crossing my fingers for another three good years.  By then he'll be 12 and I think exceeding a normal boxer lifespan.

[mmp]

I would just watch it. Grade 2 isn't the most aggressive. Just be vigilant in watching for it to came back. 

[harleygirl]

We've been battling mast cell tumors in our dog (6 years old) for almost a year and a half.  In that time, she has had four MCTs removed in three surgeries (there was a fourth surgery, but those lumps were benign).  After the first surgery (two grade II tumors were removed during that surgery), we did do a consult with an oncologist, who didn't feel there was a need to do any chemo or radiation at that time.  If you think it will give you peace of mind, it wouldn't hurt to give the oncologist consult a try, I don't think they'll try to sell you on treatments that aren't necessary, and you are not bound to doing what the suggest just because you've gone to the consult.  Best case...you come away from the meeting with more knowledge about your dog's disease.

Our dog's situation is different than yours, however, in that each of her lumps has been in a different location (one on her torso, one on her head, one on her ear, and one on her neck), so radiation wouldn't do much good for us.

After her most recent surgery, I decided to set up an appointment with a holistic vet.  We are adding the following herbs, spices and supplements to her diet:

Wei Xi booster pills 2x per day - Chinese herb; the kind we give her look like black peppercorns (can only get through the vet)

CAS Options 2x per day - a chewable supplement tablet (available at the vet or from Amazon)

Nutramax Welactin 1x per day - Fish Oil (available at the vet or through Amazon)

Tumeric - spice 1/2 to 1 tsp a day (no special brand - just what is at the grocery store)

We had already been giving her Benadryl 2x per day, and we are continuing with that.

We also discussed decreasing the amount of dry processed food (a high quality grain free kibble) she gets per day and supplementing that with a home prepared diet, perhaps eventually moving on to a completely home prepared diet.  I haven't quite gotten to this point yet.  For one, I had just bought a large bag (~30 lbs) of her food prior to our consult, so we still had A LOT of kibble, and secondly, we will likely be travelling for the holidays, and dry food is way more convenient.  After the holidays, I am going to do a lot more research into home prepared diets and will start to make the move to either switch her over completely, or at least supplement.

I found the consult with the holistic vet to be extremely informative, and I left feeling hopeful about our dog's situation, as well as our ability to do everything we can to try to slow the growth/occurrence of these tumors.  The longer we can keep her with us, the happier I will be.  It's been less than a month, so I can't speak to whether any of these things will actually work, but they certainly can't hurt.

If you're interested in a holistic consult, I had a great experience with ours and highly recommend it.

Good luck with your pup and I wish you many more tumor free years. 

[harleygirl]

Ooops - It's Wei Qi booster, not Xi

[mariamadi]

love dogs

[mmp]

Any updates???

[Deleted]

Thanks mmp. We are going in for a consult with the holistic vet; she just had some knee surgery so it will be a few weeks before she is available. We could see another vet at the same practice, but they said the out-of-the-office vet was the best one for this sort of tumor. She said the herval routine would probably be very similar to my neighbor's cat's routine. Crossing my fingers that it goes away for a nice long time. We have a regular vet appt. in a couple of weeks, and there are a couple of more lumps to check. He's had a dozen or so fatty benign tumors, so I'm hoping these are just more of that. Will update you if we get anymore info.