Honestly, I think this is a good lesson in choosing to go to grad school, too. I feel like I can understand making a poor choice to go to an expensive school as a high school student who is 18, but by the time someone finishes undergrad they should have a good idea of how bills work and decide if continuing to grad school is a good investment. Adding another 40k plus another 2 years of lost income plus another 2 years of interest accrual on the undergrad loans to get a job in social work was probably not a good choice.
I'm not pointing that out to be a jerk to the OP, but rather because it seems most of these responses are blaming education and loan costs rather than blaming choices made by an adult. I know a lot of people consider going back for a grad degree and it's really important considering the investment BEFORE getting in over your head.
I completely agree loans are ridiculous these days, though, and I've said many times that I think it sucks that I pay more interest on my student loans than I do on my car loan or mortgage. There is something messed up about that.
Again, I totally understand. I originally went to school for Psychology to be a therapist, and I had a choice between a 5 year PhD program or a 2 year MSW program. I went with the MSW since I didnt want to defer my original loans until my late 20's. I figured it'd be a good way to start paying my loans sooner while still doing what I want to do.
I ended up picking a state school for grad school over NYU's MSW program (which is amazing). Even though NYU offered me $20k a year in scholarships, it was still double the tuition for the state school. So there was consideration, but between what grad school to go to, not going to grad school or not going at all. An undergrad degree in Psychology really would not have given me many career options (edit: for what I wanted to do)
IDK. I'm not going to say I did it "right" because I have debt too (though only about 50k) and have had varying success with job satisfaction, but I was also a psychology major and wanted to go into counseling. I too didn't want to get a PhD but couldn't stomach taking out a big amount of loans and getting into the workforce later for a job that paid so little. I ended up going into organizational psychology because it had a higher earning potential and thus seemed like a better investment. There have been many times over the years where I questioned my choice but ultimately I am glad I don't have my current debt load with a lower paying job than what I have. I can't fathom having 3x as much debt as I do and making less. I think social work is an admirable career but I can't imagine choosing to go that route if I already knew I had 100k in debt and would need to take on more. Maybe I'm too practical though.
Again, I totally understand. I originally went to school for Psychology to be a therapist, and I had a choice between a 5 year PhD program or a 2 year MSW program. I went with the MSW since I didnt want to defer my original loans until my late 20's. I figured it'd be a good way to start paying my loans sooner while still doing what I want to do.
I ended up picking a state school for grad school over NYU's MSW program (which is amazing). Even though NYU offered me $20k a year in scholarships, it was still double the tuition for the state school. So there was consideration, but between what grad school to go to, not going to grad school or not going at all. An undergrad degree in Psychology really would not have given me many career options (edit: for what I wanted to do)
IDK. I'm not going to say I did it "right" because I have debt too (though only about 50k) and have had varying success with job satisfaction, but I was also a psychology major and wanted to go into counseling. I too didn't want to get a PhD but couldn't stomach taking out a big amount of loans and getting into the workforce later for a job that paid so little. I ended up going into organizational psychology because it had a higher earning potential and thus seemed like a better investment. There have been many times over the years where I questioned my choice but ultimately I am glad I don't have my current debt load with a lower paying job than what I have. I can't fathom having 3x as much debt as I do and making less. I think social work is an admirable career but I can't imagine choosing to go that route if I already knew I had 100k in debt and would need to take on more. Maybe I'm too practical though.
Trust me, I've had many a night when I look at my career and I ask myself dramatically "what have I doneeeee???" Who knows, I might jump ship to to appraisals full time while still keeping my license current so that I can go back to it when I'm in a better financial situation.
How do you like organizational psych? Our psych dept. didn't have too much information on this particular field.
IDK. I'm not going to say I did it "right" because I have debt too (though only about 50k) and have had varying success with job satisfaction, but I was also a psychology major and wanted to go into counseling. I too didn't want to get a PhD but couldn't stomach taking out a big amount of loans and getting into the workforce later for a job that paid so little. I ended up going into organizational psychology because it had a higher earning potential and thus seemed like a better investment. There have been many times over the years where I questioned my choice but ultimately I am glad I don't have my current debt load with a lower paying job than what I have. I can't fathom having 3x as much debt as I do and making less. I think social work is an admirable career but I can't imagine choosing to go that route if I already knew I had 100k in debt and would need to take on more. Maybe I'm too practical though.
Trust me, I've had many a night when I look at my career and I ask myself dramatically "what have I doneeeee???" Who knows, I might jump ship to to appraisals full time while still keeping my license current so that I can go back to it when I'm in a better financial situation.
How do you like organizational psych? Our psych dept. didn't have too much information on this particular field.
Yeah, what's done is done Hopefully you like your job and it will be worth it in the end.
Honestly I hated my grad program, lol. I think I would have liked an MSW program much more. That said, I work in HR now and I really enjoy it. Social psychology was my favorite topic as an undergrad and org psych is pretty closely related in a lot of ways. I am lucky that I work for an organization that actually cares about their employees' well being and it makes my job pretty cool because I get to make work a better place for people.
I always get so sad when I read these discussions and there's the inevitable blah blah you should've known as a kid to engage in thoughtful cost benefit analysis and avoid private four year college like the plague. Now, I went to a (imo, awesome, challenging) state school for undergrad and didn't have loans. And money was certainly a huge factor. But I mostly picked that school because it was the best fit for me and I majored in something non vocational because I love learning for the sake of learning. And it was glorious (so were the keg parties).
I couldn't do the same now, since even in state tuition is more than my parents could afford and I don't know if I would've gotten enough scholarships to cover the difference. That has nothing to do with me and everything to do with the sea changes in higher ed. It's sad to think that if I were 18 again I'd maybe be living at home going to a local school and majoring in accounting. No offense to accountants, but that would have been the suck.
I think my sister went to a B14 law school. Is that a thing? lol
A year and a half out and still hasn't taken the bar...
Ouch, what is she doing in the meantime? (if you don't mind me asking)
I have a lot of friends that are getting/have gotten their J.D. and are shitting their pants over the job market for lawyers. elle, do you know what happened for the law field to end up this way?
apalettepassion.wordpress.com/ WHO IS BONQUIQUI!?!?!?!??!
"I was thinking about getting off on demand, but it sounds like I should be glad that I didn't"
Um, what do these appraisers appraise? It sounds magical.
I am so out of touch with how bad the situation is b/c it's been over 10yrs since I graduated with my MSW. I only had around $17k total. H had a little over 100K for private med school but, holy shit, his interest rate is awesome.
Sorry OP.
FI is in residential real estate appraisal. It's a nice amount of pay once you're established for work that isn't too difficult. The only annoying thing is when banks and lending companies harass you about the work that you submitted/give a million other demands after the work is done.
And thanks mofongo, the only reason why I'm not rocking back and forth in the corner of the room is knowing that pretty much a lot of people my age and younger are dealing with the same situation.
I think my sister went to a B14 law school. Is that a thing? lol
A year and a half out and still hasn't taken the bar...
Ouch, what is she doing in the meantime? (if you don't mind me asking)
I have a lot of friends that are getting/have gotten their J.D. and are shitting their pants over the job market for lawyers. elle, do you know what happened for the law field to end up this way?
The recession. While the economy tanked and firms were closing up shop/laying of thousands of attorneys/not hiring new grads/contracting in numbers and also dealing with changing client needs (when everyone is in a recession, no one wants to pay law firms the big bucks unless its absolutely necessary), law schools were continuing to churn out graduates in record numbers. Less jobs available, but more attorneys than ever to fill them.
Other smaller causes like legal outsourcing and tech changes are to blame also.
Tulane SW school is $54k for just tuition. No fees, books, whatever the hell else they include. Not to mention you can't work full-time if you're in school full-time, due to the internship part.
My first job out of school was 30k/yr, lol. Granted, I didn't go to Tulane:)
I have 35k in undergrad loans and am headed to grad school for my MSW. I am basically going to pay a shitload of money to make significantly less money than I do now.
But you know what? I love school and I hate my job. And I decided to follow my passion and have a career (that requires a masters degree) that I love.
I will have a ton of debt when I am done. But it is going to take more than a certificate course and bootstraps to make me happy with my life, and honestly I would rather be poor and happy than well off and die of a heart attack at my desk at 40.
My sister chose to go to UCLA over much cheaper schools she was accepted to. It's a state school, but it's expensive as hell lol She wants to get into politics though, and the networking there can't be beat.
I graduated in 2011, and since I graduated tuition has gone up $7K
I did CC first, and when I started in 2001 it was $12 a unit plus books.
Same school this year charges $46 per unit. For CC.
It's not sustainable. Our society is basically requiring a bachelors degree to get anywhere now, but we are continually cutting education funding and the costs of tuition keep rising as a result. It is only going to deepen the gap between rich and poor, and create generations of people with no disposable income.
Thank God I am an indecisive loser that never went to college longer than a semester because I didn't want to waste time and money "figuring it out" like everyone told me to. I am like 1,000,000% positive that if I went to college at 18, I would be stuck with debt and a degree I would NOT be using. Sometimes I feel like a loser for not having a degree (or even a part of one) and then sometimes, even though I make crap pay in a non-career job, I am so happy that I am not working to pay off debt. This conversation is the main reason I have not even thought about pursuing school as an adult. OP, I really appreciate you opening up this conversation. At any time in my teens I could have made one decision differently and been in your exact shoes.
Again, I totally understand. I originally went to school for Psychology to be a therapist, and I had a choice between a 5 year PhD program or a 2 year MSW program. I went with the MSW since I didnt want to defer my original loans until my late 20's. I figured it'd be a good way to start paying my loans sooner while still doing what I want to do.
I ended up picking a state school for grad school over NYU's MSW program (which is amazing). Even though NYU offered me $20k a year in scholarships, it was still double the tuition for the state school. So there was consideration, but between what grad school to go to, not going to grad school or not going at all. An undergrad degree in Psychology really would not have given me many career options (edit: for what I wanted to do)
IDK. I'm not going to say I did it "right" because I have debt too (though only about 50k) and have had varying success with job satisfaction, but I was also a psychology major and wanted to go into counseling. I too didn't want to get a PhD but couldn't stomach taking out a big amount of loans and getting into the workforce later for a job that paid so little. I ended up going into organizational psychology because it had a higher earning potential and thus seemed like a better investment. There have been many times over the years where I questioned my choice but ultimately I am glad I don't have my current debt load with a lower paying job than what I have. I can't fathom having 3x as much debt as I do and making less. I think social work is an admirable career but I can't imagine choosing to go that route if I already knew I had 100k in debt and would need to take on more. Maybe I'm too practical though.
This is basically exactly what my h did. I'm so glad because his MA loans are bad enough.
I have 35k in undergrad loans and am headed to grad school for my MSW. I am basically going to pay a shitload of money to make significantly less money than I do now.
But you know what? I love school and I hate my job. And I decided to follow my passion and have a career (that requires a masters degree) that I love.
I will have a ton of debt when I am done. But it is going to take more than a certificate course and bootstraps to make me happy with my life, and honestly I would rather be poor and happy than well off and die of a heart attack at my desk at 40.
My sister chose to go to UCLA over much cheaper schools she was accepted to. It's a state school, but it's expensive as hell lol She wants to get into politics though, and the networking there can't be beat.
On this note... The owner of our dog training facility was previously a bigwig project manager for a chemical plant and made $$$$. She quit after about 15-20 years because her health was so horribly deteriorating from the stress and decided to be a dog trainer instead LOL Now she owns one of the most successful training companies in our region, is super healthy and bouncy, and says that if anyone had told her in her younger years that she would end up happier than she had ever been in her life on 40k a year HHI, she would have never believed them but here she is. She took a huge chunk of her personal time out of her day once she found out that my H was going back to school to talk to him about his goals and share her story. I think there is a lot to be said for doing what you know will make you really freaking happy, as impractical as it may be at times.
Honestly, I think this is a good lesson in choosing to go to grad school, too. I feel like I can understand making a poor choice to go to an expensive school as a high school student who is 18, but by the time someone finishes undergrad they should have a good idea of how bills work and decide if continuing to grad school is a good investment. Adding another 40k plus another 2 years of lost income plus another 2 years of interest accrual on the undergrad loans to get a job in social work was probably not a good choice.
I'm not pointing that out to be a jerk to the OP, but rather because it seems most of these responses are blaming education and loan costs rather than blaming choices made by an adult. I know a lot of people consider going back for a grad degree and it's really important considering the investment BEFORE getting in over your head.
I completely agree loans are ridiculous these days, though, and I've said many times that I think it sucks that I pay more interest on my student loans than I do on my car loan or mortgage. There is something messed up about that.
Agreed. However, part of the point *is* that loans and tuition are so incredibly expensive now. The world still needs social workers and other people in low paying fields that require higher education. So, while it is true that she made a choice to take on more loans for a not-very-lucrative career, are we to expect that people never choose to be social workers again because that would be a stupid choice in relation to the cost of the loans?
Agreed. However, part of the point *is* that loans and tuition are so incredibly expensive now. The world still needs social workers and other people in low paying fields that require higher education. So, while it is true that she made a choice to take on more loans for a not-very-lucrative career, are we to expect that people never choose to be social workers again because that would be a stupid choice in relation to the cost of the loans?
::back to reading the thread::
Unfortunately, the end result of an ill-educated social worker can be disastrous. In my state, CPS had to go through a major overhaul of it's staff since they hired a lot of people that either weren't social workers or didn't have the proper training, because two children died due to worker negligence. This happened in 2007, I think. Now they've been hiring predominantly masters level SW'ers.
Agreed. However, part of the point *is* that loans and tuition are so incredibly expensive now. The world still needs social workers and other people in low paying fields that require higher education. So, while it is true that she made a choice to take on more loans for a not-very-lucrative career, are we to expect that people never choose to be social workers again because that would be a stupid choice in relation to the cost of the loans?
::back to reading the thread::
Unfortunately, the end result of an ill-educated social worker can be disastrous. In my state, CPS had to go through a major overhaul of it's staff since they hired a lot of people that either weren't social workers or didn't have the proper training, because two children died due to worker negligence. This happened in 2007, I think. Now they've been hiring predominantly masters level SW'ers.
Yes, exactly. Certain professions are not high paying, but they still require solid education and experience for success. Social work is one of those fields. There is no way we can expect people to cope and deal with those kinds of situations (that come up in your field) without going to school. Unfortunately, this means that there are a lot of really awesome, passionate people who are going into serious debt because they are pursuing a meaningful career.
And, just to jump on the bandwagon, my undergrad, private school's tuition has risen from $28,400 in 2006 to $39,700 in 2013. It's fucking ludicrous. I have some SL debt (less than $20k), but a lot of my schooling was paid for by scholarships. That said, when my mom and I looked at the cost of this school (taking into account the scholarship money) vs. going to an in-state, public school (with no scholarship money, because I wasn't offered any), the cost was roughly the same. The cost of education was bad when I started my undergrad in 2006 and it has only continued to get worse. I know I am one of the lucky ones for not having hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. I had no clue what I wanted to do and switched majors 4 times. I went from a standard business degree, to accounting, back to business, and finally to hospitality. I still have a business degree, but, man, that was a lot of money to spend for the career path I chose. If only I had known exactly what I wanted to do at 17. Sigh.
I can't wait for the day this education bubble bursts, because, quite frankly, I am absolutely terrified about sending two (future) children through college.
I haven't read past page 2 yet, but this is why (provided the education landscape looks similar as it is today) I will encourage my daughter to work her way through community college and transfer when she's a little older and wiser.
18 year olds are not equipped to decide whether to saddle themselves with crushing debt for a degree from a vanity school.
And I'm sorry, but the education cannot be $225k better than the public university I left with $15000 in federal debt.