W had a similar program, but there were three critical differences:
1. It was much much smaller
2. It was done with the knowledge and permission of the Mexican government
3. The guns used had tracking devices installed on them.
It's #3 that gets me. I can see how intentionally allowing sales of American guns into Mexico that have tracking devices could help you take down drug or gun cartels, despite probably still being a really dumb idea. But I still haven't seen a good explanation of what the Obama administration thought it was going to accomplish by doing this, since as I understand it the guns involved had no tracking mechanism whatsoever.
Strange article. It covers a ton about personality conflicts, and why one group might be suspicious of another group. And it goes into great detail about how difficult it was to get prosecutors to accept these cases. But there's only one time it talks at all about actual gun walking--the case of the 6 guns Dodson ran without permission. It makes no mention of the other 2000+ guns allowed to walk under the program.
It also doesn't cover at all the fact that several gun stores in Phoenix had previously called in to report people making shady gun purchases (e.g. someone buying 10 AK-47s using cash from a paper bag) and during this program were told by the ATF to go ahead and make those sales. Here's an account of that from one such gun store owner: articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/11/nation/la-na-atf-guns-20110912
That was a lot of article to read and still have no idea what law enforcement thought they were accomplishing here.
It sounds like it was an enormous bureaucratic fuckup. If you've ever worked in or with the federal government, you should not be surprised that this happened.
I have no idea how much Obama knew about or was involved with it, but his refusal to release information about it does not make him look good at all.
W had a somewhat similar program (Wide Receiver) that was operated in conjunction with the Mexican gov't to track guns to identify locations of the cartel. The guns had tracking devices built into them. Over 1000 arrests were made . The program was ended in 2007 when the tracking devices were discovered and removed by the cartel.
Obama (or someone in the gov't) instituted a similar program in 2009 however the Mexican gov't was never notified nor included. No tracking devices were in these guns. It is supposed that the goal was to stir support for greater gun control by increasing violence (increasing the violence was successful)
Agent Terry was killed. - 2 of the guns were at the scene. It started as an investigation into his death and how and why this happened --- who authorized etc.
Holder had to withdraw a letter given to the committee because of its inaccuracies. The committee wants to know who knew what, when.
Obama (or someone in the gov't) instituted a similar program in 2009 however the Mexican gov't was never notified nor included. No tracking devices were in these guns. It is supposed that the goal was to stir support for greater gun control by increasing violence (increasing the violence was successful)
Helloooo crazy conspiracy theory. The Brady Campaign has given Obama an F on gun control so far in his administration. But yeah, it was all a plan to drum up support to eliminate the second amendment. 8-D
Obama (or someone in the gov't) instituted a similar program in 2009 however the Mexican gov't was never notified nor included. No tracking devices were in these guns. It is supposed that the goal was to stir support for greater gun control by increasing violence (increasing the violence was successful)
Helloooo crazy conspiracy theory. The Brady Campaign has given Obama an F on gun control so far in his administration. But yeah, it was all a plan to drum up support to eliminate the second amendment.
Honestly, I intellectually realize that this is an insane conspiracy theory. But at the same time, I literally cannot think of any other logical objective for this program as it was carried out. And I keep asking here, and googling things like "what was the point of fast and furious", and I can't seem to get an answer.
Helloooo crazy conspiracy theory. The Brady Campaign has given Obama an F on gun control so far in his administration. But yeah, it was all a plan to drum up support to eliminate the second amendment.
Honestly, I intellectually realize that this is an insane conspiracy theory. But at the same time, I literally cannot think of any other logical objective for this program as it was carried out. And I keep asking here, and googling things like "what was the point of fast and furious", and I can't seem to get an answer.
Anyone? Bueller?
I think we should try to come up with some of our own. Any takers?