Backstory: I am an atheist. My in-laws are Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic, considers himself agnostic.
Last year for a "joke" Christmas gift, my in-laws got me the book "Proof of Heaven." I actually quite enjoyed the read, even though I have no personal belief. My in-laws also got me several hundred $$ in gift cards, sweaters, etc. They are extremely generous people, particularly at Christmas. They weren't trying to be assholes with their book gift. At least, I don't think
My DH thinks I should get them "The God Delusion" by Richard Hawkins at Christmas this year.
I'm hesitating, but it would be hilarious in light of what they got me last year. I am also getting them a Keurig, golf membership and other "real" gifts.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I dont necessarily disagree with you, but would you consider what THEY did disrespectful?
Just curious. Not trying to be snarky
Do they know you're an atheist?
Yeah I think this is a big question. If they know, and they were being snarky, sure. I wouldn't give them the Hawkins book specifically but a spoofy religious book for sure.
If they didn't know and are just assuming you're religious/believe in God, then I'd just back the fuck off.
My ILs have no sense of humor about their religion (well, that's not true, FIL does). This would make my MIL cry.
It is part of the Christian belief system to share the faith with non-believers (I am speaking in wide sweeping generalizations here, not all Christians believe this, and more importantly, not all Christians act on it, myself included. But 'sharing the Good News' is an aspect of Christianity).
I don't know if it is also a facet of atheism to convince those who do believe in God to stop doing so.
I dont necessarily disagree with you, but would you consider what THEY did disrespectful?
Just curious. Not trying to be snarky
Do they know you're an atheist?
Yes. 100%.
We've had conversations about what led me to being an atheist and why my FIL joined the Catholic church (he wasn't raised Catholic).
They knew I was an atheist and bought me the book "Proof of Heaven".
I will probably NOT get them the book based on the responses, I'm just not sure how their gift could be considered acceptable and mine rude. Does that make sense?
This is the same FIL who has a massive framed oil painting of HIMSELF (not the wife and kid) over the fireplace
Was the book specifically designed around proving God? Or just a nice book about a theory of heaven? Was it blatantly disrespectful towards nonbelievers? (I'm inclined to say no since you enjoyed reading it).
I think therein lies the difference. Hawkins specifically goes around trying to disprove God (which is fine, he's very intelligent and blahblah). But he's also, from what I've read, pretty disrespectful to those who believe in God.
I would get a gift along the lines you're thinking. But not specifically Hawkins.
I'm Catholic and I read the God Delusion. I liked it but I'm not a fundamentalist and found it interesting.
I would not give it as a gift to someone who didn't want to be open-minded about religion. And it might be TIC about their book to you last Christmas, but that can go badly. Were they being "funny"? Was it disrespectful to an atheist? You read their book - will they read yours?
We've had conversations about what led me to being an atheist and why my FIL joined the Catholic church (he wasn't raised Catholic).
They knew I was an atheist and bought me the book "Proof of Heaven".
I will probably NOT get them the book based on the responses, I'm just not sure how their gift could be considered acceptable and mine rude. Does that make sense?
This is the same FIL who has a massive framed oil painting of HIMSELF (not the wife and kid) over the fireplace
Is it something they bring up a lot? Are they constantly trying to convert you?
rugbywife @livinitup I would say that they aren't necessarily trying to convert me, but they certainly like to joke about my lack of beliefs when it comes up (ie "watch out for lightning when LaurierGirl is in a church!" if i'm there for a wedding).
They are both very vocal about their beliefs, my MIL is normally pretty respectful about my lack of beliefs, FIL can go either way. Sometimes he's a dick and sometimes he's fine. To be fair, I'm sure sometimes they consider my comments/opinions to be either fine/dickish depending on the day.
They do ask us to come to church every Christmas because it is important to them, and we have declined every year thus far. They are hurt by us not going, but since neither DH nor I really believe in Jesus/miracle birth/etc except from a historical place, we don't go. We aren't rude about it, we politely decline and say "we hope they enjoy their evening" type thing.
They have asked if we will allow them to bring DS to Church. We haven't decided on that yet. I am more open to it with the new Pope since i feel he is considerably more inclusive than the last one.
Post by artichokie on Dec 11, 2013 13:38:16 GMT -5
I would not do it, as much as you might think it MIGHT be funny. You don't know how they'll take it, and even though you were a good sport last year when they gave you that book, why do the same to them? It's kind of childish to me.
rugbywife @livinitup I would say that they aren't necessarily trying to convert me, but they certainly like to joke about my lack of beliefs when it comes up (ie "watch out for lightning when LaurierGirl is in a church!" if i'm there for a wedding).
They are both very vocal about their beliefs, my MIL is normally pretty respectful about my lack of beliefs, FIL can go either way. Sometimes he's a dick and sometimes he's fine. To be fair, I'm sure sometimes they consider my comments/opinions to be either fine/dickish depending on the day.
They do ask us to come to church every Christmas because it is important to them, and we have declined every year thus far. They are hurt by us not going, but since neither DH nor I really believe in Jesus/miracle birth/etc except from a historical place, we don't go. We aren't rude about it, we politely decline and say "we hope they enjoy their evening" type thing.
They have asked if we will allow them to bring DS to Church. We haven't decided on that yet. I am more open to it with the new Pope since i feel he is considerably more inclusive than the last one.
Based on all that I think their gift to you was a dick move but your gift would be equally, if not more, of a dick move.
We've had conversations about what led me to being an atheist and why my FIL joined the Catholic church (he wasn't raised Catholic).
They knew I was an atheist and bought me the book "Proof of Heaven".
I will probably NOT get them the book based on the responses, I'm just not sure how their gift could be considered acceptable and mine rude. Does that make sense?
This is the same FIL who has a massive framed oil painting of HIMSELF (not the wife and kid) over the fireplace
Just because they didn't intend to be rude doesn't mean that their gift to you wasn't rude. And returning the "favor" would also be rude. So...why do it? To make a point? What outcome do you hope for if you do that?
And, not for nothing, while I'm not familiar with Proof of Heaven, I doubt that it has the same tone as The God Delusion. Dawkins isn't for pussies--he's pretty confrontational in his delivery, so there's no light-hearted "ha ha, isn't this funny and cute?!" about his work.
We've had conversations about what led me to being an atheist and why my FIL joined the Catholic church (he wasn't raised Catholic).
They knew I was an atheist and bought me the book "Proof of Heaven". I will probably NOT get them the book based on the responses, I'm just not sure how their gift could be considered acceptable and mine rude. Does that make sense?
This is the same FIL who has a massive framed oil painting of HIMSELF (not the wife and kid) over the fireplace
Their gift is absolutely rude. We are just saying don't be rude back. You are better than that.
Post by artichokie on Dec 11, 2013 14:04:01 GMT -5
Agree with above poster lime - Their gift was in poor taste and rude and you handled it well. Heck, you even read it! But move along, let them be the aholes, you and your dh ARE better!
Ok, the verdict is in. I will not give them the God Delusion
Although if anyone can remember the name of the book that is like a literal translation of the Bible (its funny, and written by someone who is moderately religious) I might do that instead.
Post by Wrath0fKuus on Dec 11, 2013 14:07:47 GMT -5
If it weren't for them trying to guilt an atheist into going to church every year for Christmas, I'd say do the dancing one. But as things stand, hell yes, they should get what they dish out.