Citizenship

[crimsonandclover]

As part of the new German government's coalition plan, they're going to allow dual citizenship (up to now it has only been allowed if it's "unavoidable," e.g. our DDs being born into both or if DH decided he wanted to add American citizenship since the German government can't prevent that actively).

I'm now seriously considering getting German citizenship when the law is passed.

For those of you living abroad or whose significant other is living abroad - do you have citizenship in the country you live? Could you add it to the citizenship of your birth country or did you have to give up your original citizenship (Germany would have made me give up my US passport up to now)?

If you have citizenship in your country, why did you get it? If you don't, why not?

[crimsonandclover]

I have kept my US citizenship because I identify so strongly as an American, and without going all patriotic-waving-a-flag, I love my home country despite all its faults and don't want to give up my citizenship. That's why I haven't gotten German citizenship so far.

But now, well, now I probably will do it because there have been some positions I've been interested in that I could only apply for with EU citizenship. Plus it would allow me to get a German ID card, meaning that I wouldn't technically have to carry my passport around with me all the time (I don't, but I'm supposed to). I would also be able to vote, of course.

[Dorothy Zbornak]

I thought this was only for people born here to foreign parents? If not,then sign me up!

[Dorothy Zbornak]

And here in Hessen, even us Ausländer can get a Personalausweis now!

[crimsonandclover]

Dec 23, 2013 13:35:23 GMT -5 Dorothy Zbornak said:

I thought this was only for people born here to foreign parents? If not,then sign me up!

Really? I just read a blurb about dual citizenship being allowed and didn't bother to look into the particulars. Boo...

And last time I asked (when we got DD1's passport, I think), in BW foreigners still couldn't get an ID. Maybe it has changed, though. It'd be worth it to ask...

ETA: You're right about only those who were born here:
www.fr-online.de/bundestagswahl---hintergrund/doppelte-staatsbuergerschaft--die-spd-hat-ihr-wort-gebrochen-,23998104,25463384.html
Sigh. Well, nevermind.

[Dorothy Zbornak]

Dec 23, 2013 13:43:48 GMT -5 crimsonandclover said:

Dec 23, 2013 13:35:23 GMT -5 Dorothy Zbornak said:

I thought this was only for people born here to foreign parents? If not,then sign me up!

Really? I just read a blurb about dual citizenship being allowed and didn't bother to look into the particulars. Boo...

And last time I asked (when we got DD1's passport, I think), in BW foreigners still couldn't get an ID. Maybe it has changed, though. It'd be worth it to ask...

ETA: You're right about only those who were born here:
www.fr-online.de/bundestagswahl---hintergrund/doppelte-staatsbuergerschaft--die-spd-hat-ihr-wort-gebrochen-,23998104,25463384.html
Sigh. Well, nevermind.

I know! When I first heard about the coalition talks, I got all excited, because I would LOVE to have citizenship and finally be able to vote here. The ID card thing in Hessen is pretty new, I think. We're moving to Düsseldorf in March, so I might hook myself up with one before we move. Not sure what the law is in NRW; and you know ... I never even have my passport with me. Hmmm.

[allibally]

H will apply for US citizenship fairly soon. We have one more year to go before he is allowed.

We just got word that his 10 year green card was renewed. Which is great news but we don't want to renew again and we eventually want some freedom of movement. You have to register your address each time you move and moving abroad isn't as easy with a GC.

H also identifies as an American for the most part. He likes the idea of voting ect. The only thing stopping us is him losing German citizenship. But there is a way to have both. Just paperwork and approval.

[frlcb]

Dec 23, 2013 17:13:29 GMT -5 allibally said:

H will apply for US citizenship fairly soon. We have one more year to go before he is allowed.

We just got word that his 10 year green card was renewed. Which is great news but we don't want to renew again and we eventually want some freedom of movement. You have to register your address each time you move and moving abroad isn't as easy with a GC.

H also identifies as an American for the most part. He likes the idea of voting ect. The only thing stopping us is him losing German citizenship. But there is a way to have both. Just paperwork and approval.

I think my dh will apply for US citizenship too as well. He could have last year but honestly we just haven't gotten around to it, but the whole renewing it again whenever it is a pain. I wish I would have gotten my UK citizenship, but it would have required one more year in the UK and at the time I just wanted to be back here.

[crimsonandclover]

Dec 23, 2013 17:13:29 GMT -5 allibally said:

H will apply for US citizenship fairly soon. We have one more year to go before he is allowed.

We just got word that his 10 year green card was renewed. Which is great news but we don't want to renew again and we eventually want some freedom of movement. You have to register your address each time you move and moving abroad isn't as easy with a GC.

H also identifies as an American for the most part. He likes the idea of voting ect. The only thing stopping us is him losing German citizenship. But there is a way to have both. Just paperwork and approval.

Exactly. It annoys me that DH could get US citizenship and keep his German one but I can't do it the other way around. Stupid Germany.

[Deleted]

Oh that is disappointing! Maybe they will reform the law again later so that you can apply too. I will be applying for French citizenship as soon as I'm eligible! Definitely keeping American citizenship as well, but since I live here and identify with France as well, it makes sense to get citizenship (plus voting rights!)

[mrsukyankee]

I have my British and my US citizenship. Neither country has an issue with being a dual. I'm so happy to have citizenship in an EU country as it will make it easier if we ever want to move to another EU country or a 'Commonwealth' one.  Voting was also something important to me.

[potatopie]

I'm currently working on getting the papers in order to apply for Italian citizenship. No plans to move there but once I apply it'll take 2-3 YEARS to get my passport (nice system). So I figure let's do it sooner rather than later so we're not in a jam.

[dorothyinAus]

I haven't really made a final decision one way or the other as to whether I'll go for Australian citizenship. DH says it is entirely my decision, but I am just not sure yet. And I have at least two more years before I need to make the decision.

[NomadicMama]

Dec 23, 2013 13:36:43 GMT -5 Dorothy Zbornak said:

And here in Hessen, even us Ausländer can get a Personalausweis now!

Dorothy, I live in Hessen as well!

As a(n American) military dependent, citizenship is not on the radar for me.  It is unfortunate that dual citizenship is not afforded in situations like Crimson's.

[Dorothy Zbornak]

Dec 26, 2013 2:49:59 GMT -5 NomadicMama said:

Dec 23, 2013 13:36:43 GMT -5 Dorothy Zbornak said:

And here in Hessen, even us Ausländer can get a Personalausweis now!

Dorothy, I live in Hessen as well!

As a(n American) military dependent, citizenship is not on the radar for me.  It is unfortunate that dual citizenship is not afforded in situations like Crimson's.

Hey! I can guess where you are, then! We're down in the Odenwald, near Mannheim. It does suck that those of us with roots here can't get dual citizenship for sure!

[NomadicMama]

Dec 26, 2013 7:30:39 GMT -5 Dorothy Zbornak said:

Dec 26, 2013 2:49:59 GMT -5 NomadicMama said:

Dorothy, I live in Hessen as well!

As a(n American) military dependent, citizenship is not on the radar for me.  It is unfortunate that dual citizenship is not afforded in situations like Crimson's.

Hey! I can guess where you are, then! We're down in the Odenwald, near Mannheim. It does suck that those of us with roots here can't get dual citizenship for sure!

LOL, I may as well have included my address between my first and second paragraphs!  Oops, not very PERSEC of me.  Well, we don't live on post, so I suppose random lurkers will have to work harder to find me.    But yes, you know where I am.  It's lovely here.  I've only been down to Mannheim once, for an Eater Egg show at Luisenpark.  It was a nice day trip!

i understand why, in theory, the government wants to protect their interests, but it makes things more difficult for individuals with roots, as you say.

[Dorothy Zbornak]

Dec 26, 2013 9:06:13 GMT -5 NomadicMama said:

Dec 26, 2013 7:30:39 GMT -5 Dorothy Zbornak said:

Hey! I can guess where you are, then! We're down in the Odenwald, near Mannheim. It does suck that those of us with roots here can't get dual citizenship for sure!

LOL, I may as well have included my address between my first and second paragraphs!  Oops, not very PERSEC of me.  Well, we don't live on post, so I suppose random lurkers will have to work harder to find me.    But yes, you know where I am.  It's lovely here.  I've only been down to Mannheim once, for an Eater Egg show at Luisenpark.  It was a nice day trip!

i understand why, in theory, the government wants to protect their interests, but it makes things more difficult for individuals with roots, as you say.

I can only guess because my cousin was stationed there for a while!

[Shreddingbetty]

I have both US and Dutch citizenship. I have been in the US since 1990 when I came here as a freshman in college. I got married and GC 4 years later. I never applied for citizenship when I was able to during my first marriage. My XH had no interest in voting and so I didn't really either. I had no reason to need citizenship for anything else. Then I got divorced after 8 years and met my DH. We married after 4 years together and I decided that it was time to get citizenship. I could retain my Dutch passport because I was married to a US citizen at the time of the application (I'm still married to him :-)). Had I not been I could still get citizenship just not retain my Dutch citizenship. Even though I have absolutely no intention of ever moving back to NL I was not ready to give up my EU passport. It also became clear it was in my best interest to also get US citizenship. Not so much for voting (although I do vote) but mostly because we have a lot of assets. If anything were to happen to DH I would have to pay a shit ton in taxes if I was not a US citizen. I'm not positive I would've gotten US citizenship if I couldn't have retained my Dutch (at least probably not while my parents are still alive....)

[GilliC]

I'd have to renounce my US citizenship to get Norwegian. If I could have dual, I'd be eligible in February and would absolutely get it, because I plan to be here for a while and if I move away I would like to have the option to come back.

However, renouncing is a pretty big deal to me. I don't really identify with being American, but I'm afraid to give it up. The US can be so reactionary about that kind of thing. And not just the exit tax. They're always talking about legislation to refuse admittance to renounced citizens and things like that. Someday they might pass one of these crazy bills. After all, the last change to renunciation was passed under a bill called something like the "Honoring our Noble Veterans Act!" It was just an extra bit that was tacked on. No sane politician could possibly vote against it. If I'm still here after my parents pass, I might be more willing to consider it, but right now I'm afraid I might need to return home.

[loira]

H and I have been in the UK for 4 years, but unfortunately none of them count towards citizenship on our current visas. If we do end up staying longer, it is definitely something I'd like for us to have, as it would make our lives much less complicated. He would be dual American/UK and I would be dual Canadian/UK, but we don't even have permanent residency yet, so it's still some years off.

A point of interest, though: even though I am not a citizen, I can vote in all UK elections (even federal), which I do because voting is also important to me. I live here, pay taxes here etc. and this is my home, so I am quite pleased that they allow me to vote. It's a commonwealth thing, so unfortunately H can't vote.

[audette]

So, yeah. I could get US Citizenship at this point, but there's no way I feel OK with saying the Oath of Naturalization at this point in time. Maybe some point down the road, but it effectively renounces all prior nationalities, and I'm not willing to do that.

Technically, my home country considers that an oath under duress at this point in time, and would still honor my original citizenship, but it still doesn't feel right.


I'm not really sure how folks above are talking about having other citizenship and keeping it when gaining US Citizenship... *confused*

[frlcb]

Dec 30, 2013 4:12:12 GMT -5 audette said:

So, yeah. I could get US Citizenship at this point, but there's no way I feel OK with saying the Oath of Naturalization at this point in time. Maybe some point down the road, but it effectively renounces all prior nationalities, and I'm not willing to do that.

Technically, my home country considers that an oath under duress at this point in time, and would still honor my original citizenship, but it still doesn't feel right.


I'm not really sure how folks above are talking about having other citizenship and keeping it when gaining US Citizenship... *confused*

What are you confused about? I know for dh he could keep his uk citizenship and get his US, the US turns a blind eye to people doing this and their only requirements are that you enter and exit the US on your US passport.

[frlcb]

Dec 30, 2013 7:52:47 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Dec 30, 2013 4:12:12 GMT -5 audette said:

So, yeah. I could get US Citizenship at this point, but there's no way I feel OK with saying the Oath of Naturalization at this point in time. Maybe some point down the road, but it effectively renounces all prior nationalities, and I'm not willing to do that.

Technically, my home country considers that an oath under duress at this point in time, and would still honor my original citizenship, but it still doesn't feel right.


I'm not really sure how folks above are talking about having other citizenship and keeping it when gaining US Citizenship... *confused*

What are you confused about? I know for dh he could keep his uk citizenship and get his US, the US turns a blind eye to people doing this and their only requirements are that you enter and exit the US on your US passport.

And in order for dh to renounce his uk citizenship he would have to physically go to the uk embassy and do so. Just saying the oath wouldn't matter to the UK

[audette]

Dec 30, 2013 7:53:59 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Dec 30, 2013 7:52:47 GMT -5 frlcb said:

What are you confused about? I know for dh he could keep his uk citizenship and get his US, the US turns a blind eye to people doing this and their only requirements are that you enter and exit the US on your US passport.

And in order for dh to renounce his uk citizenship he would have to physically go to the uk embassy and do so. Just saying the oath wouldn't matter to the UK

Well, yeah, the US currently turns a blind eye toward people retaining their previous citizenship.  But have you read the oath?  It's not something I would undertake lightly, nor is it something I feel is right to do if I don't intend to actually abide by the oath I am giving...

www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-test/naturalization-oath-allegiance-united-states-America

Hence why I will probably never naturalize, unless I really have to for some reason...

[GilliC]

I think I'm jaded from growing up in the US, because I don't put much store in swearing an oath amid a whole group of people repeating something they rote memorized or are repeating line by line. It's all very "Pledge of Allegiance" to me. And no mater how many times I've pledged allegiance to the US flag in my life, I'm still not very allegiant.

And I don't think anyone would ever try to sentence you for perjury if you swear the naturalization oath and then talk about how you're still awfully fond of your original citizenship and are considering moving home for good.

But that's just me, and I don't put a lot of stock in government ceremony.

[frlcb]

Dec 30, 2013 17:28:25 GMT -5 GilliC said:

I think I'm jaded from growing up in the US, because I don't put much store in swearing an oath amid a whole group of people repeating something they rote memorized or are repeating line by line. It's all very "Pledge of Allegiance" to me. And no mater how many times I've pledged allegiance to the US flag in my life, I'm still not very allegiant.

And I don't think anyone would ever try to sentence you for perjury if you swear the naturalization oath and then talk about how you're still awfully fond of your original citizenship and are considering moving home for good.

But that's just me, and I don't put a lot of stock in government ceremony.

Agreed. And I would bet very very few people who naturalize actually renounce their original citizenship unless their birth country doesn't allow dual citizenship. Yes I've read the oath, my dh is going to naturalize in the next year. It just doesn't strike us a big deal, at all.

[audette]

Perhaps it's my connection to the US military that gives me the differing view of the Oath of Naturalization. Lots of government ceremony in my life, and some of it I take quite seriously...

[dulcemariamar]

Dec 25, 2013 16:31:57 GMT -5 potatopie said:

I'm currently working on getting the papers in order to apply for Italian citizenship. No plans to move there but once I apply it'll take 2-3 YEARS to get my passport (nice system). So I figure let's do it sooner rather than later so we're not in a jam.

Will you get nationality because of your parents or because you are married to an Italian? 

[potatopie]

Jan 1, 2014 1:34:05 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

Dec 25, 2013 16:31:57 GMT -5 potatopie said:

I'm currently working on getting the papers in order to apply for Italian citizenship. No plans to move there but once I apply it'll take 2-3 YEARS to get my passport (nice system). So I figure let's do it sooner rather than later so we're not in a jam.

Will you get nationality because of your parents or because you are married to an Italian? 

Because of DH. I know some Americans who have gotten Italian passports through grandparents or something, but I've never looked into it.

Married to DH, I was eligible after 3 years of marriage. With a child, it goes down to 1.5 years.

[americaninoz]

I have pledged my oath to the Queen twice (for UK and Australian Citizenship). It didn't make me feel any less American and I certainly would never give up that citizenship.