My OB was all about me getting the flu vax that had just been released and Tdap when I was still pregnant. Then she talked to my neurologist.
As someone who medically cannot get vaccinated, this pisses me off.
Most employers have exemptions for legitimate medical problems and will work with HCWs on an alternative. I'm not saying her reason for not wanting it are not legit or real in her mind, but unless her physician is telling her she can't, and in writing, they do not have to accommodate her.
Almost no health care institution would fire someone, because they medically could not get the vaccine. They'd be setting themselves up for potentially negative consequences. True, some of the early mandatory rules were poorly written, and lawsuits were the norm, but they've come a long way to account for situations like yours where you cannot get the vaccine.
You can't get any vaccines at all? Like could you get a tetanus shot if you cut yourself?
I've been strongly advised against it until I actually have a firm diagnosis, and who knows when that will be.
Basically, one of the options as to what caused my month long hospitilization/inability to walk/inability to empty my bladder/inability to feel anything below my navel is that my immune system ramped up to fight off something incredibly small and instead of slowing down when it was gone decided to destroy my central nervous system. If that is what it was than I need to stay away from vaccines for a while because something small designed to ramp up the immune system could set the whole chain of events off again.
Or it could be one of two other things. So basically I'm in a stupid no mans land with no diagnosis but doctors who want to treat me as if I have all three options just in case to try to keep further permanent damage to my brain and spine at bay.
Wow. I had no idea that you had dealt with all that - insane. And I could totally see how a vaccine might impact your immune system so it totally makes sense. Sorry that you don't have a Dx...worst feeling ever.
I was pg with ds1 during a year with a severe flu shot shortage. Only the health department was giving the shots. I had to bring a note from my doc to the health dept to get my shot. I'm glad I got it. Ds2 I had pneumonia for most if my 2d trimester and I blame it for ds2's ASD
My mother had the flu with one of my sisters and she has a lot if neurological issues including Tourette's
I think she's an idiot. We are from the same community. She is most definitely not Amish. I'm pissy that she is acting like the flu shot is more detrimental to pregnancy than not getting it and that she should get an exemption. LGH has stated for well over a year that the vaccines were mandatory.
I linked the local article in this post here on April 2012. She's claiming that God's Lantern will provide, i.e. someone pay for a lawyer for me, or just give me. Also, it's not her pregnancy that is causing employers to not hire her, it is because most all healthcare employers have the flu vaccine as an employment requirement.
She knew the consequences of not getting the flu shot, she shouldn't have waited until the day before to try to get a medical exemption from a nurse, not a doctor, and why should she have any extra privilege just because she's pregnant.
I can't even with the anti-vax comments on that article. There's a lot of stupid in Lancaster County.
Breton said she isn't against the flu shot in general or other vaccines.
'I'm certainly not against it for everyone. The elderly and sick children, for people with weak immune systems, getting the flu can be a big deal. But for the healthy population, the flu is the flu and it's been around a long time,' she said.
'If other pregnant women want to get it that is fine as well but I don't want it for myself and I feel I have very valid questions. I would rather risk getting the flu than risk the unknowns of getting the flu vaccine.'
And who, exactly, do you think your patients are???
SHE, as a pregnant person, is a person with a weak immune system! SHEEEEE!!!!
Wearing a mask would certainly help the situation, but some flu viruses can be spread from surface to surface, if i understand correctly. SO she would have to be extra vigilant about handwashing.
In our area, you can wear a mask if you don't get the flu shot, and some people were pissed about that option because it is a violation of their health care privacy (its obvious if they didn't get the shot).
MY ILs were telling me about this case and how it was terrible that she got fired. I said well it's her choice not to get the flu shot. To which they eagerly agreed.
Then I said " but her employer is within their rights to fire her for not complying with their stated policies"
And then the argument started about the flu vaccine being ineffective. To which I responded "it was about 65% effective last year and the flu causes pregnancy complications but there is no evidence that the flu shot does the same"
MIL "that's what they say." I can't argue with the crazy.
I'm surprised at how many health care people seem to dislike the flu shot. 5 of the people I talked to for various appointments I had, and my being forced into the flu shot this year, seemed to not want the flu shot or seem to my think it is effective as we would hope. I'm not anti-flu shot, just have never participated. This year medication I am on compromises my immune system so it is not optional.
I can see why hospitals/health care are pushing it this year. It is more about protecting the patients big picture.
I too have some very educated medical friends (one is a doc in infectious diseases) who are anti flu shot. Not anti-vaxers, but specifically anti flu shot. So maybe I'm not as surprised.
Post by cattledogkisses on Dec 30, 2013 12:05:36 GMT -5
In my experience, a lot of people think the flu is just a bad cold, and don't realize how dangerous it is. I think that contributes to people brushing off the vax.
In my experience, a lot of people think the flu is just a bad cold, and don't realize how dangerous it is. I think that contributes to people brushing off the vax.
To me, this isn't even about how serious the flu is. I rarely get the flu shot, only when my life or occupation puts me or the people I am in contact with at an increased risk for the flu. But she is a nurse, her employer requires it, her patients are at an increased risk, and so is she for being pregnant. Why wouldn't she get it?
And for a nurse, this is even more obnoxious. Her job requires a host of actions that are safer for her profession but may not be strictly necessary outside of it. This includes things like sterilization and other measures to contain the spread of illness. What other aspects of healthcare is she ignoring or putting less significance on because "she doesn't need it?"
In my experience, a lot of people think the flu is just a bad cold, and don't realize how dangerous it is. I think that contributes to people brushing off the vax.
This was my mom. Until she got the flu last year.
I don't know if she got a flu shot this year, but at least she realizes its not as minor as she thought it was.
I wonder if she part of the PA Dutch community... that would certainly play into her reasoning.
I agree with the hospital on this one though.
Only 8% of Lancaster County is Amish. Which is a high percentage for what it is, and the vast majorities of the communities of Intercourse, Bird-in-Hand, and a few others are PA Dutch. But if she lives/works in the city of Lancaster, it's almost certain she's NOT. Just like the majority of people who live in Salt Lake City are not LDS. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a person who was PS Dutch in downtown Lancaster!
I wonder if she part of the PA Dutch community... that would certainly play into her reasoning.
I agree with the hospital on this one though.
Only 8% of Lancaster County is Amish. Which is a high percentage for what it is, and the vast majorities of the communities of Intercourse, Bird-in-Hand, and a few others are PA Dutch. But if she lives/works in the city of Lancaster, it's almost certain she's NOT. Just like the majority of people who live in Salt Lake City are not LDS. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a person who was PS Dutch in downtown Lancaster!
I think you might be forgetting Central Market which does have Amish vendors.
You may not have recognized a PA Dutch person in downtown Lancaster because they could look like anyone. I have plenty of dutchy heritage, enough to be classified as PA Dutch but I look like any other person. I had beat the dutchified words out of my vocabulary only to have them come back after the kids were born. I am most definitely not plain.
I wonder if she part of the PA Dutch community... that would certainly play into her reasoning.
I agree with the hospital on this one though.
Being PA Dutch can be very different than being Amish or Mennonite. The 'dutch' part is just a bastardization of the word 'deutsch,' which is the German word for 'German.' So, since my German ancestors settled in the Bucks county area in the 1720's, my grandmother was 100% PA Dutch, and I grew up with a lot of the food and traditions (distelfinks and hex signs, fastnacht/donut day, funny phrasing like 'outen the light'). But they were typical German Lutheran, rather than a strict Anabaptist religious sect.
Only 8% of Lancaster County is Amish. Which is a high percentage for what it is, and the vast majorities of the communities of Intercourse, Bird-in-Hand, and a few others are PA Dutch. But if she lives/works in the city of Lancaster, it's almost certain she's NOT. Just like the majority of people who live in Salt Lake City are not LDS. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a person who was PS Dutch in downtown Lancaster!
I think you might be forgetting Central Market which does have Amish vendors.
You may not have recognized a PA Dutch person in downtown Lancaster because they could look like anyone. I have plenty of dutchy heritage, enough to be classified as PA Dutch but I look like any other person. I had beat the dutchified words out of my vocabulary only to have them come back after the kids were born. I am most definitely not plain.
I've been reading this really interesting book on the 1918 influenza epidemic. One of the things I never knew is that 20 and 30 somethings died at disproportionate rates during that epidemic. The disease essentially sent white blood cells into over drive to help fight infection in the lungs which essentially clogged the lungs. Since 20- and 30-somethings have more effective immune systems than young children or older adults, they had the most junk in their lungs and breathing was most difficult for them.
ETA: Please excuse my completely non-scientific language.
I've been reading this really interesting book on the 1918 influenza epidemic. One of the things I never knew is that 20 and 30 somethings died at disproportionate rates during that epidemic. The disease essentially sent white blood cells into over drive to help fight infection in the lungs which essentially clogged the lungs. Since 20- and 30-somethings have more effective immune systems than young children or older adults, they had the most junk in their lungs and breathing was most difficult for them.
ETA: Please excuse my completely non-scientific language.
This still happens sometimes. It's called a cytokine storm. Having a really healthy immune system can actually work against you.
In addition to the cytokine storm it was thought that because similar viruses can repeat cycles multi decades apart older folks may have had partial immunity from being exposed when younger.
My great grandmother lived across the street from a girl who died of Spanish flu. She was 10 or 12, probably, knowing my great-grandmother was a similar age. My mom said my great-grandmother pointed out the girl's grave once when they were at the cemetery (we have a lot of family buried in the same one - rural area).
Sure, there are more medication now than there were then, but antibiotics don't work against a virus. I'd venture to say vaccinations are the most effective barrier against a virus. My source for this is the fact that smallpox no longer exists.
I went looking on the cdc site today to see the efficacy of this year's shot (I didn't find that btw), but I did see that H1N1 rates are rising again, as is the related strain ph1n1.
::bathes in lysol:: I know I'm vaccinated AND have had h1n1, but I never ever never want that again.
This still happens sometimes. It's called a cytokine storm. Having a really healthy immune system can actually work against you.
Going off topic: for maybe the last ten years or so, OBGYNs have been postulating that cytokine storms are the leading cause of cerebral palsy in newborns. Inflammation in the mother causes a cytokine response that attacks the brain of the baby. This also explains why the rate of CP hasn't gone down with the increase in continuous fetal monitoring during L&D. Actually, this is on topic, because it is yet another reason otherwise healthy pregnant women should get a flu shot. Getting sick when you are pregnant, even just a little but sick is a lot more unpredictable than getting sick when you're not pregnant.
And that's the other thing - there's so much we don't even understand yet about pregnancy and fetal health. But it's pretty clear that being sick during pregnancy is bad, even if we don't fully understand the effects of it.
Incidentally, my mom's cousin's mother had rubella during her pregnancy and the outcome was pretty terrible This was before the vaccine was available. She's now in her 50s and has a mental age of about 6. Nobody knows what is going to happen to her after her father is gone but it probably won't be good.
Is there proof that flu vaccines prevent transmission of the virus?
Pretty sure that's how vaccines work. You get the vaccine --> you come into contact with germs from one of the strains included in the vaccine --> you don't get infected --> you don't pass it on to someone else.
No the vaccine isn't 100% effective, but no vaccine is.