I started to type out a back story but it was ridiculously long (longer then this, lol). Short(er) version - Coworker - N - hates me. To the point where everyone in our department and those that work around us knows it. About 9 months ago she was yelling at me and cursing at me for no reason, HR "talked" to her about it, no one ever followed up with me. Work environment has been tense ever since, with her sighing or muttering under her breath about half the time that I walk by her (she sits at the end of my row and I have to walk past her to go anywhere). Friday she did the screaming and cursing thing again, including yelling "fuck you" as she walked away. Luckily she's a moron and does this in front of others, so both times people have gone on record with HR that it was unprovoked, that I kept my cool, and that she was inappropriate and yelling/cursing at me.
My department head just said to me that he talked to her again. I said that it's very tense working here and that I sucked it up when it was her just acting ridiculous, but that this is now twice that I've been yelled and cursed at. I asked how I could feel better about knowing that this wouldn't happen again and he said he really can't say that it wouldn't happen again, but that he talked to her and let her know that this is inappropriate behavior. I told him that I would like to speak with HR about this, so he emailed HR to set up a meeting.
For any who work in HR, can I reasonably expect them to do something to try to make sure this doesn't happen again? FWIW, I work for a very large, multinational corporation. I'm going to get my resume updated and start looking around, but I'm also the primary earner so I have to be careful since job security here is great. I just feel like they should be trying harder to fix this other then just "talking to her". She's had issues with numerous other people, and two that I know of have also filed complaints with HR. I mean, FFS, at what point do they show her the door? Before I go into HR I just want to have a realistic view of what I should expect of them. I know I can't expect them to fire her (as happy as that would make me), but do I have any rights here?
I don't work in HR, so I'm not sure what you have in terms of "rights" but I wonder if they're not having to create a "trail" of her behavior before they can terminate. That way they could fight her unemployment rights?
Either way, I think meeting with HR is a good plan. I hope they can offer you something more than, "We've addressed it with her."
Post by mypunkinpie on Jul 2, 2012 14:51:23 GMT -5
I think she's a long way from being shown the door. The only thing you can change in this situation is how YOU react to it. It sucks, but I think you're going to have to ignore her or find another job.
What the FUCK? They need to fire her. She's creating a hostile work environment. Why does she hate you so much?
She's one of those people who is just miserable and angry about everything. She and I used to be friends and hung out outside of work and would go to the gym together every day. Then I became friends with a mutual coworker and even though we invited her to do whatever we were doing, she is one of those people who thinks you can only have one friend at a time. She did the same thing to another coworker recently (they were friends, other coworker made other friends, N got furious and dropped her), but this other coworker works in a different department so N doesn't have to see her every day. Instead I get all of her wrath
I work in HR, but for a small company so things may be different than they would be at a large company. There should be a formal process for something like this - like after you meet with HR, they should have to do a full investigation, including speaking with other employees who have witnessed your CW's behavior. But even with all of that done, they will probably just "reprimand" her or put something official in her file; not sure if they would terminate (mostly based on what you said about this happening before and not really seeing any results from it). When you talk to HR, tell them that because of her behavior, you feel harrassed and that she is creating a hostile work environment for you. I hope something good comes out of this!
Not an HR person. But I would try to seriously find out what their intentions are with her. Is she on some kind of action plan, is she getting written up, what does it take to get fired? What you can do to help the process along. I'm guessing they can't tell you much, but I would try to get as much out of them as possible as to what kind of action plan she is on.
Post by firedancer49 on Jul 2, 2012 14:54:40 GMT -5
Are you in an at will state? If not, they can't just fire her for any reason, they need documentation, etc. If it is an at will state they can fire anyone, for any reason, at any time w/o penalty.
They should give her a warning and say if they hear from others it happened that she will be fired.
It's hard because while she's harassing you in a way, it's not necessarily tied to anything covered by a law/regulation (disability/gender/race/religion, etc) - this makes it difficult for you or your employer to establish what steps should be taken. Do they have an Ethics policy or hotline that dictates how people should treat each other that you could reference in your meetings with HR?
I think she's a long way from being shown the door. The only thing you can change in this situation is how YOU react to it. It sucks, but I think you're going to have to ignore her or find another job.
That's my problem, and also something I hope HR can address. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. In this particular issue that made her made, I approached her with a work issue two weeks ago in person, then via email a few days later when another aspect of the same issue came up, then via email again last week when collections got involved. She never got me the paperwork I needed, lied and told collections that I wasn't doing my job when it was her I was waiting on, so I asked her supervisor to get me the paperwork I needed. She got furious that I went over her head and screamed at me, but I had asked her for the paperwork 3 separate times over two weeks. I didn't yell back when she was cursing me out, even though I really, really wanted to. I have no idea how to change how I react because there's no way I'm not going to get angry at someone publicly dressing me down and cursing at me.
Post by frauschmindy on Jul 2, 2012 14:59:23 GMT -5
I had a coworker like this, always screaming at everybody, telling them to fuck off and calling them assholes. She punched our boss several times (different times) and one time, punched him in the ribs multiple times because she knew he had a broken rib.
We are in an at will state. We have no hotline to call, but we do have a generic ethics policy and have to participate in various online training sessions on harassment and discrimination.
This is so frustrating because other then this I really like my job and my department and I'm good at it. They're flexible with my schedule due to the girls, which is really important. But I can't believe that they just allow this to happen.
Post by mypunkinpie on Jul 2, 2012 15:00:27 GMT -5
Oh, you can get angry FFS. She's a bitch. Just remain professional at all times and document, document, document. You absolutely handled the situation about her not giving you the paperwork correctly: if you don't get a response from a request to a CW in a timely manner, you go to their supervisor. You are not responsible for the way she reacts to you doing your job.
ETA: I think what I'm trying to say is go to your supervisor or HR with legitimate things she's doing to prevent you from doing your job, like not giving you paperwork in a timely manner and lying to CW. Don't just tattle on her for screaming obscenities to you.
"I have no idea how to change how I react because there's no way I'm not going to get angry at someone publicly dressing me down and cursing at me. "
At this point, I would treat her like a toddler. Ignore and walk away. She screams and yells, you keep on going. I wouldn't even answer her if she was screaming questions at me. I might be an asshole and go back to my desk, sit down, and send an email to her and CC HR and her/my boss on it while politely giving her my answer that she requested during her tyraid.
I had a coworker like this, always screaming at everybody, telling them to fuck off and calling them assholes. She punched our boss several times (different times) and one time, punched him in the ribs multiple times because she knew he had a broken rib.
She still works there.
Thanks for the ray of hope, lol. I guess I'll just start keeping a flask at my desk.
I cannot fathom how people who curse/punch/hit at their coworkers can remain employed. That blows my mind.
Seriously! I didn't expect her to get fired the first time, but a second time? I really thought she'd be shown the door, not told "now N, you know we don't yell at people!" like you would reprimand a 2 year old. I'm sure she's learned her lesson 8-D
"I have no idea how to change how I react because there's no way I'm not going to get angry at someone publicly dressing me down and cursing at me. "
At this point, I would treat her like a toddler. Ignore and walk away. She screams and yells, you keep on going. I wouldn't even answer her if she was screaming questions at me. I might be an asshole and go back to my desk, sit down, and send an email to her and CC HR and her/my boss on it while politely giving her my answer that she requested during her tyraid.
And copy your/her supervisor in case she decides to continue said tirade in writing.
I had a coworker like this, always screaming at everybody, telling them to fuck off and calling them assholes. She punched our boss several times (different times) and one time, punched him in the ribs multiple times because she knew he had a broken rib.
She still works there.
Thanks for the ray of hope, lol. I guess I'll just start keeping a flask at my desk.
Lol sorry, I guess I should say we didn't really have HR and my boss was the world's biggest push over. Just by vurtue of having an HR department you are in a much better position than I was!
It's hard because while she's harassing you in a way, it's not necessarily tied to anything covered by a law/regulation (disability/gender/race/religion, etc) - this makes it difficult for you or your employer to establish what steps should be taken. Do they have an Ethics policy or hotline that dictates how people should treat each other that you could reference in your meetings with HR?
Dude, what? No. In a NORMAL workplace with policies and good HR people, protected class has nothing to do with it. I can guarantee that if I walked up to someone at work and told them to fuck off because they were ugly, I wouldn't just get away with it because ugly isn't a protected class.
It's hard because while she's harassing you in a way, it's not necessarily tied to anything covered by a law/regulation (disability/gender/race/religion, etc) - this makes it difficult for you or your employer to establish what steps should be taken. Do they have an Ethics policy or hotline that dictates how people should treat each other that you could reference in your meetings with HR?
Dude, what? No. In a NORMAL workplace with policies and good HR people, protected class has nothing to do with it. I can guarantee that if I walked up to someone at work and told them to fuck off because they were ugly, I wouldn't just get away with it because ugly isn't a protected class.
I work in HR and have for over 10 years and while it's easy to say "wow that is crazy, she should be fired." and "it's employment at will" Employers will need to CYA before firing someone. That is why I was trying to tell the OP to focus on her rights as an employee via established policy,since there is no clear law or regulation protecting her from being bitched at by CW. There may be other things that she doesn't know about coworker (ie- she's depressed, on meds, has a disability, has pictures of the CEO with a goat-who knows) that would make it "hard" for them to just fire her, so her best bet is to reference something that states that employees should treat each other decently or that they aim to have a safe, harmonious workplace, etc.
Also, where in the HELL is your supervisor when she's doing this?!
When she went off on Friday both of our supervisors were out. She would have never done it if they were both in. They were both out again today so I came into work late so that I wouldn't be alone with her (we're two of the first in). I wanted to avoid any more issues, but it sucks that I had to come into work late to accomplish that.
Dude, what? No. In a NORMAL workplace with policies and good HR people, protected class has nothing to do with it. I can guarantee that if I walked up to someone at work and told them to fuck off because they were ugly, I wouldn't just get away with it because ugly isn't a protected class.
I work in HR and have for over 10 years and while it's easy to say "wow that is crazy, she should be fired." and "it's employment at will" Employers will need to CYA before firing someone. That is why I was trying to tell the OP to focus on her rights as an employee via established policy,since there is no clear law or regulation protecting her from being bitched at by CW. There may be other things that she doesn't know about coworker (ie- she's depressed, on meds, has a disability, has pictures of the CEO with a goat-who knows) that would make it "hard" for them to just fire her, so her best bet is to reference something that states that employees should treat each other decently or that they aim to have a safe, harmonious workplace, etc.
I know the CYA thing is definitely an issue here. We have an older guy here who is a really nice guy but does jack shit all day. My department head has been trying to push him out, but HR is worried that he'll sue and say it's discrimination because he's older (mid 60s). It doesn't surprise me that with more subjective stuff like that there would need to be a good paper trail, but I would think that with documented instances of cursing at other employees and created such a hostile work environment that numerous coworkers have had their seats moved away from that person it would be easier to show them the door.
I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE that the burden would be on the OP to produce something stating that it's NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR EMPLOYEES TO VERBALLY ABUSE OTHER EMPLOYEES.
I really appreciate that you understand the frustration I'm feeling. This whole thing boggles my mind and makes me so furious. I just started at my department head for a good 10 seconds after he told me that there is no way for him to tell me that it won't happen again, but that I should just continue to tell him every time she does this. :-|
I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE that the burden would be on the OP to produce something stating that it's NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR EMPLOYEES TO VERBALLY ABUSE OTHER EMPLOYEES.
I'm not saying that IT SHOULD fall to her, but it appears that it has/will, so I think that her best option is to use any tools she can to help her situation, since they don't appear to be eager to can the CW based on her treatment of OP. I have seen many people fight terminations with no leg to stand on, and often the employer ends up settling just to avoid publicity/court costs- so employers can be really hesitant to terminate for a reason that is not clearly addressed by a law- that was the point I was trying to make, perhaps poorly articulated. I am not saying it is right or the way it should be, but it appears to be the situation that OP is in, or this would not have gone on for this long.
Post by DefenseAgainstTheDarkArts22 on Jul 2, 2012 16:24:57 GMT -5
I just wanted to pop in because I keep seeing Hostile Work Environment thrown around and the legal definition of a HWE is here: www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-hostile-work-environment.htm. This is in no way a HWE. Please educate yourself before you go into your meeting and sound like you don't know what you are talking about. Whenever someone would throw around HWE I would politely tell them that I realize their issue is serious but this is not a HWE.
I just wanted to pop in because I keep seeing Hostile Work Environment thrown around and the legal definition of a HWE is here: www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-hostile-work-environment.htm. This is in no way a HWE. Please educate yourself before you go into your meeting and sound like you don't know what you are talking about. Whenever someone would throw around HWE I would politely tell them that I realize their issue is serious but this is not a HWE.
That's what I was trying to get at, JR- use regulations/policies that apply to this situation -
I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE that the burden would be on the OP to produce something stating that it's NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR EMPLOYEES TO VERBALLY ABUSE OTHER EMPLOYEES.
Document, document, document everything that has happened. If you have a good HR dept, they will conduct a "formal" investigation with employee interviews. Most likely, they will reprimand her, put something in her file, etc. but not fire her.