OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — The family of a 13-year-old California girl declared brain dead after tonsil surgery is encountering difficulty in obtaining two surgeries that she needs to undergo before she can be safely transferred to a long-term care facility.
A lawyer for Children's Hospital Oakland said that it is unwilling to allow an outside doctor to fit Jahi McMath with the breathing and feeding tubes that the family has requested.
The hospital will not permit the procedures to be performed on its premises because Jahi is legally dead in the view of doctors who have examined her, lawyer Douglas Straus wrote in a letter to the girl's family.
"Performing medical procedures on the body of a deceased human being is simply not something Children's Hospital can do or ask its staff to assist in doing," he said.
The refusal appeared to reverse the position articulated Monday by a hospital spokesman. He said the hospital would allow a doctor retained by the family to insert a feeding tube and to replace the oral ventilator keeping Jahi's heart beating with a tracheal tube — surgical procedures that would stabilize Jahi if she is moved to a facility willing to keep caring for her.
Christopher Dolan, the lawyer for Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, said he received the news as he tried to confirm the conditions under which the hospital would have allowed a visiting doctor and nail down the long-term care facility that might accept the girl as a patient. Dolan said he has been talking with the New Beginnings Community Center in Medford, N.Y., an outpatient client for people with traumatic brain injuries, and with an unnamed facility in Arizona.
The New York facility didn't immediately return calls seeking comment.
"They're speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They say one thing and we go down that road, and then they say something else," Dolan said of hospital officials. "The hospital said, 'Bring us a doctor' and we said, 'Tell us the conditions' and now, they've wasted a half a day of our time. We don't have much time."
Hospital spokesman Sam Singer said later: "This is academic. They have not produced a single physician."
Meanwhile, a state appeals court on Tuesday refused to order the hospital to insert the tubes, saying the issue has to go first to the lower court judge who has ordered the hospital to keep the girl on a ventilator until Jan. 7 pending the family's appeal. The 1st District Court of Appeal said it would consider the issue at a later date, if necessary.
Straus, the hospital's lawyer, reiterated in his letter that the hospital would release the girl's body as soon as her family provided a detailed plan outlining how the move would be accomplished and written permission from the coroner. But he said neither has been submitted.
"No facility has stated, unconditionally or otherwise, that it is prepared to immediately accept Jahi's body," he wrote.
Jahi underwent a tonsillectomy and related procedures at Children's Hospital on Dec. 9 to treat sleep apnea. Her family said she went into cardiac arrest after she started coughing up blood in the recovery room. She was declared brain dead three days later. The hospital then moved to take her off the machines that are keeping her heart and lungs going a few days before Christmas.
Doctors at Children's Hospital and an independent pediatric neurologist from Stanford University have concluded Jahi is brain dead.
Her family, citing religious beliefs and the hope that she will pull through, wants to continue life support. Alameda County Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo initially ruled that doctors could remove her from the ventilator at 5 p.m. Monday, but two hours before the deadline gave the family another week to find a place to move her.
Straus filed papers Monday in both the state appeals court and in a federal court where Jahi's mother also has sued. He is opposing the family's request for an emergency order to keep Jahi on a ventilator indefinitely.
"The Superior Court correctly concluded, after three days of hearings and based on uncontroverted evidence, that Ms. McMath is, sadly, deceased," the papers state. "Turning off a ventilator that assists in delivery of oxygen of a dead person causes no irreparable harm — regardless of the parental or religious beliefs of the decedent's family."
The federal court has said it does not plan to act on the request until the case has worked its way through the state courts.
Meanwhile, Jahi's family has been getting advice and help about moving Jahi to a long-term care facility from a foundation started by Terri Schiavo's family.
Bobby Schindler, executive director of Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network, said it is important for families and patients to know their rights in these situations.
Schiavo, who suffered brain damage after a heart attack, was at the center of a years-long right-to-die struggle that ended in 2005 when her husband removed her feeding tube over objections from her parents.
"Families and individuals must make themselves aware of what so-called 'brain death' is and what it is not," Schindler said in a statement.
This is a macabre question, but isn't she eventually just going to start decomposing when all her organs fail?
She will. It's very sad.
I knew a little girl who was hit by a car, and had a terrible brain bleed. She was not brain dead, or even in a PVS, "just" a severe TBI. Although she physically recovered well, the portion of her brain that was damaged began to atrophy and her skull started to cave in. She had to have a large portion of her brain removed, and her skull reinforced with steel plates.
This will happen for brain tissue, or any tissue, that has died. It's awful, and it's not living.
This is a macabre question, but isn't she eventually just going to start decomposing when all her organs fail?
I was sort of wondering this too but didn't know how to bring it up IRL. I was wondering about what happens to a "dead body" that's left on a ventilator. They want to put a feeding tube in her, but if she's dead, what exactly would happen to the nutrients they put into her?
Do you think her family has her condition confused with her being in a coma? Not really looking for an answer on that....but I sort of think that they don't fully understand what is going on. They seem to be under the impression that she's going to open her eyes one day.
I think it's an awful situation, I couldn't imagine being in their position, looking at what appears to be your sleeping child that is still warm to the touch and being told that she's dead and never coming back.
Post by Miss Phryne Fisher on Jan 2, 2014 19:19:23 GMT -5
Effing Schindler family. Terri Schiavo was local to me,that case went on so long before it became national and holy shit are they delusional people. And they of all people should know that brain death =/= vegetative state. The girl is dead. Let her die with some dignity.
I just viewed the foundation's website. It is a mess. They trash Michael on it. And the FAQs deny she was in a PVS. So whatever counsel they have offered the family of Jahi is no doubt full of denial and inexpert advice.
This is a macabre question, but isn't she eventually just going to start decomposing when all her organs fail?
I was sort of wondering this too but didn't know how to bring it up IRL. I was wondering about what happens to a "dead body" that's left on a ventilator. They want to put a feeding tube in her, but if she's dead, what exactly would happen to the nutrients they put into her?
Do you think her family has her condition confused with her being in a coma? Not really looking for an answer on that....but I sort of think that they don't fully understand what is going on. They seem to be under the impression that she's going to open her eyes one day.
I think it's an awful situation, I couldn't imagine being in their position, looking at what appears to be your sleeping child that is still warm to the touch and being told that she's dead and never coming back.
Are you going to tell us yet how the hospital is shady?
I was sort of wondering this too but didn't know how to bring it up IRL. I was wondering about what happens to a "dead body" that's left on a ventilator. They want to put a feeding tube in her, but if she's dead, what exactly would happen to the nutrients they put into her?
Do you think her family has her condition confused with her being in a coma? Not really looking for an answer on that....but I sort of think that they don't fully understand what is going on. They seem to be under the impression that she's going to open her eyes one day.
I think it's an awful situation, I couldn't imagine being in their position, looking at what appears to be your sleeping child that is still warm to the touch and being told that she's dead and never coming back.
Are you going to tell us yet how the hospital is shady?
Her body will not process any nutrition in a meaningful way. Even awake people who are actively dying can't really take nutrition or fluids. That's why end of life care, like hospice style, encourages families to accept that forcing IV fluids and feeding tubes isn't really a good idea.
I heard this girl's mom on the radio the other day, she said "last time I checked, if your heart is beating, you are alive." She also said something to the effect of she wouldn't let the hospital kill her living daughter. I just shook my head. It has to be hard, but lady, you are just prolonging the inevitable.
This is a macabre question, but isn't she eventually just going to start decomposing when all her organs fail?
She will. It's very sad.
I knew a little girl who was hit by a car, and had a terrible brain bleed. She was not brain dead, or even in a PVS, "just" a severe TBI. Although she physically recovered well, the portion of her brain that was damaged began to atrophy and her skull started to cave in. She had to have a large portion of her brain removed, and her skull reinforced with steel plates.
This will happen for brain tissue, or any tissue, that has died. It's awful, and it's not living.
in fact they've said that scans show there is no blood flow to her brain. Its just horrifying, this whole thing. Let this poor girl go.
I knew a little girl who was hit by a car, and had a terrible brain bleed. She was not brain dead, or even in a PVS, "just" a severe TBI. Although she physically recovered well, the portion of her brain that was damaged began to atrophy and her skull started to cave in. She had to have a large portion of her brain removed, and her skull reinforced with steel plates.
This will happen for brain tissue, or any tissue, that has died. It's awful, and it's not living.
in fact they've said that scans show there is no blood flow to her brain. Its just horrifying, this whole thing. Let this poor girl go.
Well, frankly and sadly, maybe they need to see decomp or something similar with their own eyes. So sad. Poor Jahi.
This is a macabre question, but isn't she eventually just going to start decomposing when all her organs fail?
I was sort of wondering this too but didn't know how to bring it up IRL. I was wondering about what happens to a "dead body" that's left on a ventilator. They want to put a feeding tube in her, but if she's dead, what exactly would happen to the nutrients they put into her?
Do you think her family has her condition confused with her being in a coma? Not really looking for an answer on that....but I sort of think that they don't fully understand what is going on. They seem to be under the impression that she's going to open her eyes one day.
I think it's an awful situation, I couldn't imagine being in their position, looking at what appears to be your sleeping child that is still warm to the touch and being told that she's dead and never coming back.
If this were initially the case, the doctors - including the independent pediatric neurologist - have explained it plenty at this point. If they are still confused, its their own willful ignorance. I feel terrible for their loss, but in it they are letting themselves destroy their daughter's dignity.
I heard this girl's mom on the radio the other day, she said "last time I checked, if your heart is beating, you are alive." She also said something to the effect of she wouldn't let the hospital kill her living daughter. I just shook my head. It has to be hard, but lady, you are just prolonging the inevitable.
Forgive if this is something I should know, but is her heart even beating on its own?
I heard this girl's mom on the radio the other day, she said "last time I checked, if your heart is beating, you are alive." She also said something to the effect of she wouldn't let the hospital kill her living daughter. I just shook my head. It has to be hard, but lady, you are just prolonging the inevitable.
Forgive if this is something I should know, but is her heart even beating on its own?
My grandfather suffered a TBI from a medical procedure fuck up and lived in a vegetative state for three months. My family made the decision not to prolong his life with medical procedures. He wasn't even brain dead. I honestly can't fathom what these families are thinking.
This is a macabre question, but isn't she eventually just going to start decomposing when all her organs fail?
I stayed with my grandmother the last 2 days of her life, when she was in hospice care. She wasn't on life support, but her liver and kidneys were shutting down. I won't go into gory detail, but let's just say I never want to see anyone in that state again, it was so awful. And I'd rather not be in that state myself either.
Her body will not process any nutrition in a meaningful way. Even awake people who are actively dying can't really take nutrition or fluids. That's why end of life care, like hospice style, encourages families to accept that forcing IV fluids and feeding tubes isn't really a good idea.
So how does this work for the pregnant woman in TX who is brain dead but they ant remove her from life support. How is her body supporting the pregnancy nutritionally?
Her body will not process any nutrition in a meaningful way. Even awake people who are actively dying can't really take nutrition or fluids. That's why end of life care, like hospice style, encourages families to accept that forcing IV fluids and feeding tubes isn't really a good idea.
So how does this work for the pregnant woman in TX who is brain dead but they ant remove her from life support. How is her body supporting the pregnancy nutritionally?
The latest update is that the coroner issued a death certificate and the hospital will allow a critical care team to enter the hospital and move her to an unspecified facility. The court, however, will not force the hospital, or any doctor, to insert a feeding tube or trach.
My phone is being wonky so I can't link, but it's on the main page of www.sfgate.com
The latest update is that the coroner issued a death certificate and the hospital will allow a critical care team to enter the hospital and move her to an unspecified facility. The court, however, will not force the hospital, or any doctor, to insert a feeding tube or trach.
My phone is being wonky so I can't link, but it's on the main page of www.sfgate.com
What are the chances of a lawsuit related to this case?
If the hospital doesn't insert a feeding tube or trach and she "dies" (I know..she's already dead..but YKWIM), think the family will sue for negligence? Regardless of what the judge says?