Critique My Marathon Training Plan?

[Deleted]

Background: I can comfortably run a couple of hours no problems. Am not super quick, but occasionally surprise myself. Have only run one half marathon (see signature) but am already running 13 miles+ on the weekends as my long run. 
Run days are Monday (short run), Wednesday (medium run), Thursday (short run) and Saturday (long run).
Goal: to finish comfortably so I'm not dying over the line. 

wk1:  3 - 8 - 3 - 13
wk2:  0 - 8 - 4 - 15 (this was last week, I missed my first run as I felt tired)
wk3:  3 - 8 - 3 - 13
wk4:  3 - 8 - 3 - 13
wk5:  4 - 8 - 4 - 13
wk6:  4 - 8 - 4 - 13
wk7:  4 - 8 - 4 - 14
wk8:  4 - 8 - 4 - 16
wk9:  5 - 8 - 5 - 16
wk10: 5 - 8 - 5 - 17
wk11: 5 - 8 - 5 - 18
wk12: 5 - 8 - 5 - 20
wk13: 5 - 8 - 5 - 13
wk14: 3 - 5 - 3 - 8
wk15: 3 - 3 - 3 - 26

All advice appreciated!

[clseale]

A few things jump out at me. 1) I would mix it up a bit. I'm not a big fan 3-8-3 (just as an example.) I'd probably do 3-8-5, 4-8-6, etc. I also think there are too many 13s. I would change up your long runs. I like cut-back weeks, and because you already started training, and did 15 in week two, I might do more of them. I don't know...the long run schedule looks weird to me. Since this is your first, I might do something with the remaining weeks like 13,16,14,17,15,18,16,18,14,20,16,20,13,8,26.2. I would also add on to that mid-week long run. I'd keep it at 8, but for the higher weeks, I'd make it half of your long run. So basically, the weeks you do 18, make it a 9 miler, and the weeks you do 20, make it 10.

[gt7301b]

Why all the weeks of 13s? I'd mix that up a bit. I also like to have two 20 milers planned. Life happens and if you miss that one 20 miler you are going to be a mental cluster. Pfitzinger recommends a mid-week long run. I did this in my recent half training and found it to be beneficial.

[thom]

I agree with building on that mid-week long run if you can. Up to 10. But if you're feeling wiped out scale it back at 6 or 7 for a week if needed.

You do have a lot of 13 long runs, but I think that's ok. You don't need variety just for the sake of 1 mile plus or minus. I would, however, do a few cutback weeks on long run. Like the week before your 20 only do 13-14. I like to do a step back week every 3-4 weeks.

Also, I'd make sure you are doing at least several runs each week at easy pace to just build your aerobic base. Then a run or two each week if you want can be at a faster tempo pace (or intervals) of what you are comfortable with. This will make training more interesting.

Have fun & don't stress; you're doing awesome by already comfortably running 13! I think a wide variety of plans can get you to the finish happy & strong. Just make sure you fuel, hydrate, & sleep as well as you can during training. Take an extra rest day if you are feeling sick or suspect an injury creeping up. And be willing to be flexible. These things are perhaps more important than the exact mileage on a specific day. Good luck!!
(Edited)

[Deleted]

re: the 13s, the original plan had a bunch of shorter ones building up to 11s as the long run but I found that I can do a 13 and the route I take suits it nicely so I have made that my minimum long run. In all likelihood I will stretch that out as my confidence grows but I wanted to make a HM distance my standard basic minimum long weekend run to start off with. Remember, this is a tailored rookie plan.

Interesting re: mixing it up a bit versus 3 - 8 - 3. I might try that just for variety, though I do honestly love routine and monotony (that in itself might make me half decent at this running lark!). I have been using the 3 milers to push myself to run faster around my village. I'm horrible at doing sprint sections in any other distance. I love to run at a steady pace and find a natural groove, usually.

Many of the distances are governed by the ability to get back to my cottage in a loop, so when I find a good route, I tend to repeat it, though I am finding more options. I'm running on roads and some of them can be very narrow and people tend to drive fast here so I have to choose carefully. That, and I risk getting hit by tractors more than is usual!

I like the mid-week long run idea, plus doubling up on a 20 miler - that's smart. Mentally it would hit me hard if I missed one of the longest runs. I'm actually heading back to Australia during weeks ten and eleven, so I am sure that the schedule will get kicked in the ass purely because of the travelling time (28 hours flight anyone?) that means I miss out an entire day just by crossing time zones.

[thom]

Jan 6, 2014 10:22:52 GMT -5 @cheshire said:

re: the 13s, the original plan had a bunch of shorter ones building up to 11s as the long run but I found that I can do a 13 and the route I take suits it nicely so I have made that my minimum long run. In all likelihood I will stretch that out as my confidence grows but I wanted to make a HM distance my standard basic minimum long weekend run to start off with. Remember, this is a tailored rookie plan.

Interesting re: mixing it up a bit versus 3 - 8 - 3. I might try that just for variety, though I do honestly love routine and monotony (that in itself might make me half decent at this running lark!). I have been using the 3 milers to push myself to run faster around my village. I'm horrible at doing sprint sections in any other distance. I love to run at a steady pace and find a natural groove, usually.

Many of the distances are governed by the ability to get back to my cottage in a loop, so when I find a good route, I tend to repeat it, though I am finding more options. I'm running on roads and some of them can be very narrow and people tend to drive fast here so I have to choose carefully. That, and I risk getting hit by tractors more than is usual!

I like the mid-week long run idea, plus doubling up on a 20 miler - that's smart. Mentally it would hit me hard if I missed one of the longest runs. I'm actually heading back to Australia during weeks ten and eleven, so I am sure that the schedule will get kicked in the ass purely because of the travelling time (28 hours flight anyone?) that means I miss out an entire day just by crossing time zones.

I think monotony (I.e. consistency) is fine! Like I said above, no need to have variety just to record a different mileage number. It's more about taking some runs easy & some harder.

I do think you could actually scale back one or two of those early 13's to 10 or less. Even if it feels fine to run 13 a cutback week is good for you.

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2014 10:18:07 GMT -5 thom said:

I agree with building on that mid-week long run if you can. Up to 10. But if you're feeling wiped out scale it back at 6 or 7 for a week if needed.

You do have a lot of 13 long runs, but I think that's ok. You don't need variety just for the sake of 1 mile plus or minus. I would, however, do a few cutback weeks on long run. Like the week before your 20 only do 13-14. I like to do a step back week every 3-4 weeks.

Also, I'd make sure you are doing at least several runs each week at easy pace to just build your aerobic base. Then a run or two each week if you want can be at a faster tempo pace (or intervals) of what you are comfortable with. This will make training more interesting.

Have fun & don't stress; you're doing awesome by already comfortably running 13! I think a wide variety of plans can get you to the finish happy & strong. Just make sure you fuel, hydrate, & sleep as well as you can during training. Take an extra rest day if you are feeling sick or suspect an injury creeping up. And be willing to be flexible. These things are perhaps more important than the exact mileage on a specific day. Good luck!!
(Edited)

Thanks! Yes, it does certainly seem a good idea to make the mid-week a tad longer and pushing it to 10 isn't a great stretch. 
The cut back idea sounds good too. I have noticed that even at this level, when I have rested for a couple of days then my legs feel fresher heading out. 

Prior to starting this plan, I was running a pre-plan that I made up and was a bit over the shop, 4-6-4, 3-8-3, 3-6-3 etc. I started doing it at the end of September. 

Re: sleep… is it normal to have constant night sweats? Is that a side effect of running? It's pretty much every night. I wake up at 3am and I have to go to the spare room to sleep as the bed is damp. (I change the sheets every day now. It's driving me crazy.)

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2014 10:25:54 GMT -5 thom said:

Jan 6, 2014 10:22:52 GMT -5 @cheshire said:

re: the 13s, the original plan had a bunch of shorter ones building up to 11s as the long run but I found that I can do a 13 and the route I take suits it nicely so I have made that my minimum long run. In all likelihood I will stretch that out as my confidence grows but I wanted to make a HM distance my standard basic minimum long weekend run to start off with. Remember, this is a tailored rookie plan.

I think monotony (I.e. consistency) is fine! Like I said above, no need to have variety just to record a different mileage number. It's more about taking some runs easy & some harder.

I do think you could actually scale back one or two of those early 13's to 10 or less. Even if it feels fine to run 13 a cutback week is good for you.

Cool, and thanks for the advice, I'm very open to everyone's ideas. I'm a first time marathoner so I have no idea what I'm doing so I really appreciate input.

I reckon a cut back week could be a good idea. My right knee is a bit off. It's fine when I run on it, but I can't fully straighten the leg. I put ice on it today after my run and it was tons better after that. 

[clseale]

See, I don't think variety is just to see a different number, it's to have different benefits for your body. I just don't see the benefit of that many of the same distance. You can look at so many different plans, and none of them will have you running the same distance 4 weeks in a row. It doesn't have to be the higher mileage I suggested (although peak week gets you to 42 miles, which even for a first time marathoner, is somewhat normal peak week mileage.)

Like thom suggested, make it a 10 or even an 8. Maybe that's a stronger, slightly faster run for you, and then the next week, the real challenge is the distance when you're doing 16 miles. You know the saying "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got"? I think that is so true with running. Plus, by cutting back and then bumping it up, you're getting a few more higher mileage runs, (but still getting time to recover in between). On race day, I think that's going to be much more beneficial to your endurance. The cut back weeks also give you some freedom if your body is telling you to scale back a bit. 

ETA: And you're doing/will do great! Just adding a different perspective from the things I have learned from 5 (almost 6) different marathon plans. That's right, I've never followed the same plan. LOL!

[clseale]

Oh, and the night sweats! Yes, I've definitely had them when training, but I have no idea why. It's terrible! Maybe someone else has some insight on that, but it's the worst. I haven't really had it this time around, but it's definitely happened with past training cycles.

[thom]

I should qualify my advice by saying I'm a two-time marathoner with a lot to learn. That's the great thing about questions & discussion though. We can all jump in & learn new stuff - no matter how many times we've run a distance. Heck, I'm still trying to master the 5K.

[clseale]

Jan 6, 2014 11:39:32 GMT -5 thom said:

I should qualify my advice by saying I'm a two-time marathoner with a lot to learn. That's the great thing about questions & discussion though. We can all jump in & learn new stuff - no matter how many times we've run a distance. Heck, I'm still trying to master the 5K.

When you figure that out, please share with those of us who need to do the same.

Everything I've learned, I've learned through personal experience/trial & error, and then through threads like these, where everyone offers up what has worked for them. I come in to contribute, but also, selfishly, I come in to see what tips others have. 

[Deleted]

Excellent ideas, thanks everyone! I was fully prepared for someone to look at my plan and say 'holy crap you really don't have any idea at all, do you?'. LOL!
It sounds like I'm not a gazillion miles off a decent plan, but agree that a few tweaks could be made to a) make it more interesting and b) get some added benefits.

Thanks everyone - really appreciate the input.

Oh and yes, if someone has the magical answer to nailing a 5K, I'd like that too.

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2014 11:16:15 GMT -5 clseale said:

Oh, and the night sweats! Yes, I've definitely had them when training, but I have no idea why. It's terrible! Maybe someone else has some insight on that, but it's the worst. I haven't really had it this time around, but it's definitely happened with past training cycles.

OK - cool, because I went to the doctor and she thought I might be menopausal. I'm 37. I think she scared the shite out of me.

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2014 11:48:28 GMT -5 clseale said:

Jan 6, 2014 11:39:32 GMT -5 thom said:

I should qualify my advice by saying I'm a two-time marathoner with a lot to learn. That's the great thing about questions & discussion though. We can all jump in & learn new stuff - no matter how many times we've run a distance. Heck, I'm still trying to master the 5K.

When you figure that out, please share with those of us who need to do the same.

Everything I've learned, I've learned through personal experience/trial & error, and then through threads like these, where everyone offers up what has worked for them. I come in to contribute, but also, selfishly, I come in to see what tips others have. 

Oh totally, I do this too! Sometimes someone posts a question and I think 'oh yeah, that happens to me and I'd like to know the answer'.