need help with our Great Pyrenees pup

[kellikans]

Hi everyone.  

we adopted a Great Pyrenees puppy in September and she's now 8.5 months old.  the person we adopted her from got her at 2 months, and I found out that in the 2 months he had her, he did absolutely no training or discipline.  we're having a really tough time training her.  she bites/nips/likes to use her mouth (although she understands "no bite" and will usually stop and lick instead), drinks water like she's a camel gearing up for a trek across the Sahara, then throws it up, jumps on strangers (which is a problem now and will become an even bigger problem the larger she gets).  the worst thing is that she paces in the house, which is usually her go potty sign.  although she's been using it recently to go into the kitchen (which we have gated off) to drink more water.  if she does go to the door, we'll take her out and then nothing.  she'll come back in and pace, take her out, nothing.  she'll come in and pace, take her out, nothing.  then she'll come back in and squat in the house with no warning.  or she'll go outside and pee, then come back in, start pacing madly while almost squatting to poop, we'll take her out (she'll be in mid-squat in the house) and then she won't do anything.  we praise her when she does go outside, scold her when she goes inside, give her treats when she goes potty outside.  or she wants to go pee every hour.  I know she can hold it because she's in her crate when we're at work and she sleeps through the night.  I'm at a loss.  

we have two other dogs that we trained with no problem and they are the most well-behaved dogs.  but for some reason the same stuff is not working for this one.  any ideas or suggestions?  

also, is it too late for obedience training?  I know they say to do it as early as possible, but I've had a lot of resistance from DH since he thought we could do it on our own (and its expensive), but I'm at the end of my rope. I'm ready to sign her up tomorrow. 

edit: here's a pic of the monster.  she can be so incredibly sweet, but geez does she test my patience. 

[redheadbaker]

It's never too late for obedience training. That said, Pyrs are notoriously stubborn dogs. How much do you know about the breed?

[mcmel]

I don't really have much to offer, but I wanted to say how freaking cute she is!

Perhaps a behaviorist is your best bet?

[kellikans]

Jan 21, 2014 23:10:06 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

It's never too late for obedience training. That said, Pyrs are notoriously stubborn dogs. How much do you know about the breed?

well, I've never owned one before, so everything I know about the breed is just from reading.  I know they are a stubborn breed.  I know that they'll usually do what you want, but its after they're done doing what they're doing.  I know that it's patience, patience, patience.  but I refuse to believe that they aren't trainable.  I've also read on forums and in books that they are some of the best dogs to own.  we're going to have kids one day, and I know that they are great family dogs.  I keep telling myself that this is just her still being a puppy... after all, she is still a baby.  it's hard to remember she's a baby since she's so big already, lol.  I have the feeling that if she had started training at 2 months, then we wouldn't have nearly the problems with her that we're having.  but what's done is done and we're trying to figure out how to go about it from here on out since what we're doing is not working.  

[lolanjoe]

Could she have a UTI? I wouldn't scold for messes in the house, normally that doesn't work and gives negative attention. Just praise like mad when she does potty outside, and make sure it's immediate -- she squats and pee starts coming out, it's GOOD GIRL POTTY! THAT'S A GOOD POTTY! in a super happy voice. I'd make sure you're using an enzymatic cleaner like Nature's Miracle to clean up messes so she doesn't smell it and think it's a potty spot inside.

If she's drinking water just out of boredom, try putting ice cubes in her bowl. She'll still get hydration, but it will take longer so she isn't going nuts with the water.

Does she have any busy toys like a stuffed Kong or puzzle toy? Something like that might be good to redirect the pacing.

GL!

[kellikans]

Jan 22, 2014 0:28:20 GMT -5 lolanjoe said:

Could she have a UTI? I wouldn't scold for messes in the house, normally that doesn't work and gives negative attention. Just praise like mad when she does potty outside, and make sure it's immediate -- she squats and pee starts coming out, it's GOOD GIRL POTTY! THAT'S A GOOD POTTY! in a super happy voice. I'd make sure you're using an enzymatic cleaner like Nature's Miracle to clean up messes so she doesn't smell it and think it's a potty spot inside.

If she's drinking water just out of boredom, try putting ice cubes in her bowl. She'll still get hydration, but it will take longer so she isn't going nuts with the water.

Does she have any busy toys like a stuffed Kong or puzzle toy? Something like that might be good to redirect the pacing.

GL!

those are all great suggestions!

we do praise her when we're out with her while she goes potty and give her a treat as soon as she comes in when she does go, but we'll definitely try praising her the second she starts going.  maybe that'll help.  she doesn't go in the same place in the house.  and I have some nature's miracle, so maybe I'll try using that instead to clean rather than regular spray cleaner.

she does love ice cubes, so that's a great idea. 

any suggestions for a puzzle toy?  she tends to destroy any toy she gets, and we have hardwood floors so the plastic-y ones are extremely noisy.  she has a couple of nylabones, but she throws them up in the air and chases them across the floor, and it's very loud.  but they seem to be the only ones she can't destroy.  but I don't want my floors destroyed either. 

[redheadbaker]

No, you'right, no dog is untrainable. I would get her into training classes ASAP. A trainer watching you interact with her in person will probably be a lot more helpful than we could be on a message forum.

There was a poster on the old Nest board who had two Pyrs and a Newf (and a young daughter), but I don't think she made the migration to ProBoards, or else she would also be a great resource.

[G22]

I agree no age is too old to train. We took our 2 dogs to training when they were 3 and 4 years old. They still learned stuff.

[lolanjoe]

When looking for a trainer, make sure you're finding one that is positive reinforcement only. There's a lot of quacks out there.

For toys, I have a Kong wobble toy that Scout likes, but it's kind of loud on the floors. There's a lot of soft puzzle toys though, like Hide-a-Squirrel. I can't think of any other ones off hand, but there should be a good section of puzzle toys at most Petsmarts and other large animal supply stores.

[kellikans]

thanks everyone! I'm going to start looking at some obedience/training classes and was planning to go out and buy her new toys today anyway since most of the ones she got from Christmas are already destroyed, lol.

[Norticprincess]

UTI pops as a possibility

I'd take her to the vet and also ask to have her checked for diabetics if she does not have a UTI

You can freeze things into the extreme kongs (the black rubber one) peanut butter or there are a few other mixtures that should come up on google (on mobile) I think it is Jollypets that makes another puzzle thing. Their jolly balls have survived the mastiffs thus far.

Does your vet have any trainer recs?

[shortcake2675]

Jan 22, 2014 8:03:52 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

No, you'right, no dog is untrainable. I would get her into training classes ASAP. A trainer watching you interact with her in person will probably be a lot more helpful than we could be on a message forum.

There was a poster on the old Nest board who had two Pyrs and a Newf (and a young daughter), but I don't think she made the migration to ProBoards, or else she would also be a great resource.

That's me! We said goodbye to our Newf (age 13) in October, but still have a 7 year old female Pyr named Lexi and an 8 year old male Pyr/pyr mix named Sanka (he loves mama way more than Lexi).  I have a 3.5 year old daughter (i can't believe she'll be 4 in april) and an 18 month old son.  Our house is busy.

I haven't had enough sleep to properly respond, but will try to respond tomorrow after some sleep.  

Obedience class is the only suggestion I'll make tonight.  And since you already have a Pyr, I won't go through the laundry list of bad things about them.  I adore the breed, but they are not for everyone. 

[redheadbaker]

Jan 25, 2014 2:01:10 GMT -5 shortcake2675 said:

Jan 22, 2014 8:03:52 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

No, you'right, no dog is untrainable. I would get her into training classes ASAP. A trainer watching you interact with her in person will probably be a lot more helpful than we could be on a message forum.

There was a poster on the old Nest board who had two Pyrs and a Newf (and a young daughter), but I don't think she made the migration to ProBoards, or else she would also be a great resource.

That's me! We said goodbye to our Newf (age 13) in October, but still have a 7 year old female Pyr named Lexi and an 8 year old male Pyr/pyr mix named Sanka (he loves mama way more than Lexi).  I have a 3.5 year old daughter (i can't believe she'll be 4 in april) and an 18 month old son.  Our house is busy.

I haven't had enough sleep to properly respond, but will try to respond tomorrow after some sleep.  

Obedience class is the only suggestion I'll make tonight.  And since you already have a Pyr, I won't go through the laundry list of bad things about them.  I adore the breed, but they are not for everyone. 

Oh, I'm so sorry about your Newf. One of my favorite Pets Board memories is him covered in flour. 

But congrats on your second child! 

[shortcake2675]

Harrumph. I had an entire post typed and then the window closed randomly.

What a beautiful girl!

Have you taken her in for a vet visit to see if she has a UTI? I don't think the pacing directly points to that. Mine ask to go out many times a day, but usually only need to potty twice. Sanka would spend all day outside if I let him, provided the temp was between 20-80, and Lexi has to protect us from birds and squirrels and cats.

Mine played with kongs, but are not toy dogs. They'd much rather wrestle. We do have a no wrestling in the house policy that took a little while to implement.

Take an obedience class with her. Lexi was 14 months old when we adopted her. Sanka was 2. Sanka loves mama and was easier to train for sure, but Lexi got a passing grade at obedience class. Training treats weren't good enough for Lexi. We cut up hot dogs to use as treats. She may roll her eyes at comments and make me repeat myself, but we are at a point where they know what behavior I expect and will provide it. With practice, they are very good on lead.

The history of Great Pyrs is a good read if you want to know a bit more about their behavior. Mine are couch potatoes, but I know they think of the family as their herd to protect. There's always a dog sleeping in front of the door and patrols of the house and backyard happen multiple times a day.

Lexi and Sanka are good with my kids, but pull themselves out of situations more often than not these days. Beamer, my Newf was the best with my kids. We miss her.

I wish I had more enlightening answers, but this is what I got.

[shortcake2675]

In general, I try to talk people out of Pyrs. They aren't easy dogs. But if you can handle all the bad, you may fall in love with the breed. I went back to the site which should not be named and found the list. It's better that I don't have to remember it all. My dogs are old and I'm starting to forget some of the stuff they used to do when they had more energy.


An off leash Pyr is a gone Pyr. They roam by nature, considering the world their territory to protect.

They are independent. Commands are taken under advisement. Mine respond to commands they think are worthy of a response. They will not win you an obedience competition, but are trainable ish. I'm pretty sure my Pyr Lexi has rolled her eyes at me over a command before.

They were bred to be flock guardians. As in fight off bears and coyotes or whatever might be eating the sheep or other livestock. They considering it their job to protect their flock, which will include you and your family, from whatever they consider a threat. Be it a squirrel, bird, airplane, census worker, or the UPS guy. And they can be very vocal in their duties. This is not a dog that you leave in your yard. Your neighbors will hate you and you won't get any sleep. Yet they are not a guard dog. It's very important that they know you're boss.

They shed. Not just twice a year. All the time. Weekly brushing keeps it down. And yes, my dogs eat premium food. It's just life. But they do blow their coats twice a year. Then they drop the undercoat in clumps. And no you can't shave them. Even if it's hot out. They have light skin and will sunburn. I don't wear much black anymore. And Sanka's grooming every three months is $150. Lexi has an appointment next week with a mobile groomer who estimated $75 for her, but at this point, we aren't positive she'll fit in the tub.

They need exercise. Not time out in the yard. Walks, runs (but not until age 2), some sort of mental exercise (training). There was a Pyr on the nest board that dock dived, but he has a lab for an older brother and is confused about being a Pyr. Mine get walks and romp in the backyard now, but we used to take them to the baseball fields with the 6' fences to run.

They are big. Lexi takes up most of the couch when she's stretched out. Or half the bed. Or the three of mine used to cover an 8x10 area rug. They do drool too. To be honest, mine are pretty mild mannered in the house, but it was a chore training her to walk with a loose leash.

My Pyrs are 7 and 8. They are good with my kids, but take themselves out of situations more the older they get. Just now, Kevin lost his balance and fell on Sanka. Sanka stood up and walked off. If they will behave within my limits, I'm pretty ok with the status quo.

I don't do puppies, so I got both of mine as adults. Mine counter surf, which is awful, so remember the only safe place in your kitchen is behind a door or on top of the fridge. I used to say the oven was safe, but then my Newf opened the door. Pyrs tend to be healthy, but keeping them at a skinny weight will help their hips.

I don't really feel like a Pyr is the kind of dog that goes places with you. We used to take Lexi or Sanka to the farmer's Market, but they are huge and weren't always comfortable. We took ours out for drives a lot before the kids took up the back seat. Since pyrs weren't bred to be companions, I worry they won't fulfill what you're looking for in a dog. Lexi went to work with me a couple of times. She took up half of my office floor and wouldn't just settle in and lay down. She paced and was anxious because of the new surroundings. People are not super comfortable with a dog that is nearly 4 foot long and 36 inches tall at the head. And god forbid she bark. Even her alert bark will wake the dead, but the alarm bark is deep and kind of scary. I'm glad you were able to do a meet and greet. I just stumbled into Pyr ownership. Did you ask them about what you'd like the dog to be able to do with your family?

[mcmel]

shortcake2675 hit the nail on the head.

I have a pyr / border collie, but her attitude is 110% Pyrenees. Despite constant training she won't walk on a leash unless it's just me and her, she does tricks only when she feels like, she is EXTREMELY protective of her family/house, and she sheds so much I need to vacuum and sweep every day. She doesn't like being cuddled, but she wants to be pet all day every day and she just stands in front of me like I'm an idiot until I put her fan on her.

With that being said, she's so perfect. She's my baby and I'd love to have another. Just thinking about her and her stubborn butt makes my heart flutter.

They are just LOT of work and honestly I'm not sure it's what you're looking for.






Eta- @stpete