"Accidents" in the house?

[DazeyDee]

I'm hoping you ladies can give me some advice. We adopted a dog from our prison training program about a month ago. He's a great dog, wonderful with our daughter and was well trained in the program (for the most part).

The problem we are having is with going to the bathroom. He's been trained to "get busy" on command, and usually does very well. However, there's been a number of times (this morning being the most recent) where I've taken him out, he's gone to the bathroom (both peed & pooped) and then come in the house and pooped on the floor. This is obviously not ok.

I've tried leashing him to me, and he does fantastically when he's leashed. I've tried letting him out even more frequently - I am unemployed at the moment, and am home 90% of the time, so I have been taking him out to the backyard every hour or so. I'm at a loss on what to do - he never really "tells" us that he needs to go out, but every time he's had an accident, he's JUST come in. I don't get it, and don't know what to do.

I have a call in to the trainers at the program, but would love any ideas you may have. Thank you!

[redheadbaker]

Has he had a vet checkup to rule out a medical cause?

Can you try bell training, to teach him to signal when he needs to go out?

[mariesd]

We adopted our dog 3 months ago, and although she was supposedly house-trained ... she had accidents in our house about once a week. And yes, usually it's right after she's been outside! I KNOW she knows she's supposed to do it outside. We did ask the vet about it and there isn't anything medically wrong with her.

I talked to a trainer about Petsmart and she recommended giving lots of positive reinforcement every time the dog goes outside ("good girl", etc) and a treat. She also told me that my dog seemed to be having confusion with texture. Any time my dog peed inside, it was on carpet/rug -- the trainer said a lot of dogs get confused by this and think it's OK to go there. I also made sure to get an enzymatic cleaner (I got Nature's Miracle) so the dog can't find that spot again.

I looked into bell training. Honestly, though, I haven't started it yet. She's started giving me signs she needs to go out sometimes -- a whine, sometimes a bark, sometimes scratching at the door. Nothing consistent, but every time she does one of those things, I let her outside immediately. That's helped a lot.

I figure, the dog is still adjusting to the new environment, and I try not to get too irritated by the accidents.

Actually, mine has only had 1 accident in the last 3 weeks. I'm not sure if it's because she's getting more adjusted here, or because she's been around other dogs that are kind of "showing her" the right thing to do. (I bring her to dog daycare and she's stayed one weekend at my ILs with their well-trained dogs) and I swear she's learning from them. She only started giving a bark at the door because one of my ILs dogs does that.

[DazeyDee]

Jul 7, 2012 10:27:12 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Has he had a vet checkup to rule out a medical cause?

Can you try bell training, to teach him to signal when he needs to go out?

Yes, he was fully vetted the week we took him home. He's a healthy 18 month old pup.

I'll look into bell training. I have a two year old, so bell training may be interesting since a bell would have to be right at her level (their heads are the same height!) .

[redheadbaker]

Jul 7, 2012 12:10:09 GMT -5 DazeyDee said:

Jul 7, 2012 10:27:12 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Has he had a vet checkup to rule out a medical cause?

Can you try bell training, to teach him to signal when he needs to go out?

Yes, he was fully vetted the week we took him home. He's a healthy 18 month old pup.

I'll look into bell training. I have a two year old, so bell training may be interesting since a bell would have to be right at her level (their heads are the same height!) .

If you don't mind me being nosy, can I ask which program he came from? You can PM me if you prefer.

[DazeyDee]

Jul 7, 2012 13:03:54 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jul 7, 2012 12:10:09 GMT -5 DazeyDee said:

Yes, he was fully vetted the week we took him home. He's a healthy 18 month old pup.

I'll look into bell training. I have a two year old, so bell training may be interesting since a bell would have to be right at her level (their heads are the same height!) .

If you don't mind me being nosy, can I ask which program he came from? You can PM me if you prefer.

Nope, I don't mind. He came from the Colorado Department of Corrections dog training program. They take dogs our of shelters, as owner surrenders or from vets & breeders and pair them with an inmate. The dog lives with the inmate in their cell and the inmate trains them. It been a super successful program for DOC (my husband used to work at DOC so the successes), and gives the inmates something really positive to work for.

[redheadbaker]

Jul 7, 2012 14:06:58 GMT -5 DazeyDee said:

Jul 7, 2012 13:03:54 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

If you don't mind me being nosy, can I ask which program he came from? You can PM me if you prefer.

Nope, I don't mind. He came from the Colorado Department of Corrections dog training program. They take dogs our of shelters, as owner surrenders or from vets & breeders and pair them with an inmate. The dog lives with the inmate in their cell and the inmate trains them. It been a super successful program for DOC (my husband used to work at DOC so the successes), and gives the inmates something really positive to work for.

There's a program exactly like that here, too -- I'm in Philadelphia. It's really new, they're only on their fourth "class." They take 5 dogs at a time out of the local high-kill shelter, and a trainer goes in to teach the inmates how to train the dogs, and I think a vet tech and a groomer also talk to them about their jobs. Then the class "graduates," and the dogs get adopted. Once the inmates are released, they have job skills, and there are scholarships available if they choose to go to school for dog training, grooming or veterinary technicians.

[DazeyDee]

Jul 7, 2012 14:26:20 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jul 7, 2012 14:06:58 GMT -5 DazeyDee said:

Nope, I don't mind. He came from the Colorado Department of Corrections dog training program. They take dogs our of shelters, as owner surrenders or from vets & breeders and pair them with an inmate. The dog lives with the inmate in their cell and the inmate trains them. It been a super successful program for DOC (my husband used to work at DOC so the successes), and gives the inmates something really positive to work for.

There's a program exactly like that here, too -- I'm in Philadelphia. It's really new, they're only on their fourth "class." They take 5 dogs at a time out of the local high-kill shelter, and a trainer goes in to teach the inmates how to train the dogs, and I think a vet tech and a groomer also talk to them about their jobs. Then the class "graduates," and the dogs get adopted. Once the inmates are released, they have job skills, and there are scholarships available if they choose to go to school for dog training, grooming or veterinary technicians.

It's such a great program, I'm glad you guys have something similar! They've been doing it here forever - at least a decade. It's huge here - almost 130 dogs, and programs in all the major facilities across the state. There's a lead trainer who's in charge of the program, and she goes around to all the facilities. Then the facilities have individual trainers who train the inmates. The inmates get a skill they can take with them, and it gives them SO much incentive to follow the rules. As an adopter, I can go back at any time for "brush-up" training, and they do boarding in training for the public, too. And I can send Jax there for board-in training for less then it costs to board him, so we'll likely do that if we ever go on vacation. Oh, and when we adopted him, we got journals that the trainers kept about him the whole time. So, so cool!

I can't say enough good things about the program - I think every state should have something like it!

[mariesd]

That program sounds amazing! I'd never heard of it before.

[kellbell191]

Both of my dogs usually poop more than once when we take them out. I would make sure you're giving him enough of a chance to go more than once if he needs. I'd also be sure to feed on a schedule so you can predict when he poops and be sure to give him time to poop at the right time. When we had our last foster puppy we kept a journal of when he ate, drank and poooped to help us see the pattern so we could potty train better.

[DazeyDee]

Jul 7, 2012 20:06:14 GMT -5 kellbell191 said:

Both of my dogs usually poop more than once when we take them out. I would make sure you're giving him enough of a chance to go more than once if he needs. I'd also be sure to feed on a schedule so you can predict when he poops and be sure to give him time to poop at the right time. When we had our last foster puppy we kept a journal of when he ate, drank and poooped to help us see the pattern so we could potty train better.

He is on a pretty good schedule - he eats at 7:30 and 7:30, and gets about 15 minutes outside after each meal, then again about 45 minutes later. A journal is a great idea, though - thank you!

[M]

Wow that's an amazing program! I've never heard of that before!

Have you made sure he knows that accidents are a no no? Positive reinforcement doesn't work well with my dog because he's too smart for his own good. Hilo was potty trained at 4 months but had a not-so-accident..more like popped-his-leg-up-right-in-front-of-me-and-peed-on-my-new-guest-bed-set accident when he was 8 months old. There was a lot of yelling and screaming and I spanked him once on his hind leg (hurt my hand more than it hurt him ) then made him sit in time out for 5 minutes. He looked so sad from disappointing me that he's never done it again.

Of course you should try the positive reinforcement first. Hilo is different from any other dog I've ever had. Maybe try putting him on a schedule to go outside. Hilo use to have a bell but I took it away when it abused it haha. So now he goes every 4 hours: 8am, 12, 4, and 8pm. He also comes to get me when it's time to go out also.

[redheadbaker]

Jul 7, 2012 21:43:20 GMT -5 M said:

Wow that's an amazing program! I've never heard of that before!

Have you made sure he knows that accidents are a no no? Positive reinforcement doesn't work well with my dog because he's too smart for his own good. Hilo was potty trained at 4 months but had a not-so-accident..more like popped-his-leg-up-right-in-front-of-me-and-peed-on-my-new-guest-bed-set accident when he was 8 months old. There was a lot of yelling and screaming and I spanked him once on his hind leg (hurt my hand more than it hurt him ) then made him sit in time out for 5 minutes. He looked so sad from disappointing me that he's never done it again.

That sounds more like marking than an accident and are you actually advocating that she hit her dog?!??

[M]

Jul 9, 2012 7:59:26 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jul 7, 2012 21:43:20 GMT -5 M said:

Wow that's an amazing program! I've never heard of that before!

Have you made sure he knows that accidents are a no no? Positive reinforcement doesn't work well with my dog because he's too smart for his own good. Hilo was potty trained at 4 months but had a not-so-accident..more like popped-his-leg-up-right-in-front-of-me-and-peed-on-my-new-guest-bed-set accident when he was 8 months old. There was a lot of yelling and screaming and I spanked him once on his hind leg (hurt my hand more than it hurt him ) then made him sit in time out for 5 minutes. He looked so sad from disappointing me that he's never done it again.

That sounds more like marking than an accident and are you actually advocating that she hit her dog?!??

Of course he was marking! That's why i said it was not an accident! He had been potty trained for 4 months so he knows not to pee inside the house. OP needs to make sure her dog knows that what he did was wrong which could be something as simple as a "no" or "bad dog". All dogs are different, my dog just requires a more dramatic scene to show that I was disappointed in him. There's also nothing wrong with spanking with your bare hands, it's just like spanking a child. Beating a dog... is a whole different ball game.

[redheadbaker]

Jul 9, 2012 21:43:30 GMT -5 M said:

Jul 9, 2012 7:59:26 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

That sounds more like marking than an accident and are you actually advocating that she hit her dog?!??

Of course he was marking! That's why i said it was not an accident! He had been potty trained for 4 months so he knows not to pee inside the house. OP needs to make sure her dog knows that what he did was wrong which could be something as simple as a "no" or "bad dog". All dogs are different, my dog just requires a more dramatic scene to show that I was disappointed in him. There's also nothing wrong with spanking with your bare hands, it's just like spanking a child. Beating a dog... is a whole different ball game.

Sorry, I must have misread your first response.

But I don't believe it is ever appropriate to hit a dog.

[puppiesandrainbows]

I have a question. You said you adopted him a month ago, and he was fully vetted.

The very first time he had an accident inside, was this before or after that vet visit? And did that vet visit include a urinalysis?

If his first accident took place after the vet visit, it's possible he could have a UTI. I've had two dogs that suddenly began having accidents in the house. Before getting mad, I took them to the vet. Each one had a UTI, which accounted for the sudden accidents.

If the first accident happened after the vet visit, or if it was before but no urinalysis was done, it might be worthwhile to get him checked. An untreated UTI could spread and become very serious. If the first accident was before the vet visit and they did a urinalysis and it was clear, them I don't know what to tell you, lol.

[mariesd]

In response to puppiesandrainbows post above -- in her OP she said the "accident" was always #2, so I don't think a UTI would apply.

(But I don't know too much about these things, so I could be wrong).

[M]

Jul 9, 2012 22:21:40 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jul 9, 2012 21:43:30 GMT -5 M said:

Of course he was marking! That's why i said it was not an accident! He had been potty trained for 4 months so he knows not to pee inside the house. OP needs to make sure her dog knows that what he did was wrong which could be something as simple as a "no" or "bad dog". All dogs are different, my dog just requires a more dramatic scene to show that I was disappointed in him. There's also nothing wrong with spanking with your bare hands, it's just like spanking a child. Beating a dog... is a whole different ball game.

Sorry, I must have misread your first response.

But I don't believe it is ever appropriate to hit a dog.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I refuse to be one of those bad dog owners whose dog runs wild, jumps on people, doesn't listen, and annoys everyone around them because they lack discipline. I also only discipline if he already knows better and does wrong anyways, but he's 2 yo now and very well behaved as a result.

[straymo]

It's possible to have a well behaved dog without hitting. My dogs are well behaved and listen to me and I don't need to raise I hand to them. Trust me, it can be done.

To the OP, my guess is that 1) he comes in before he's really done and 2) he may still smell the spots where he's gone before and is continuing to use those spot.

For the first, even after he's gone continue to walk him and see if he give any indication he still needs to go (I look for physical signs as well as behaviorial). My doxie will pee and run like a bullet to go back inside. I have to redirect him so he'll finish.

For the second, make sure you are using an enzyme cleaner correctly, not a household cleaner. You want to be certain that every bit of enzyme is gone or the dog will still smell it.

Good luck and it make just take a little time of knowing his body's schedule.

[nital]

Actually there's new research that says even mild spankings increase the risk of mental disorders in kids. And I personally am not dumb enough to get in a fight with my dogs, who could easily eat me if they choose. Fortunately I'm smarter than them so I don't have to resort to physically manhandling them. I'm going to guess I did something right, since my adopted jumpy, not housebroken, PITA, Houdini street dog managed to pass a therapy dog test (multiple actually, since I was undecided on which group to join)

[M]

Then our parents must have some sort of mental disorder considering our grandparents probably did a lot of spanking...probably with belts toohaha. Call me old fashion but if you let your child get away with something they know they're not allowed to do more than a couple times then they will continue to get away with it. It's no wonder there's so many bratty disrespectful kids running around with no manners. They know they won't be disciplined.

If you met my dog, you'd realize he's not the average dumb dog that can be baited. I'm not saying it's necessary for all kids (or dogs) to be spanked, but if you let them disrespect you then you will be taken advantage of. And if you have thoughts that your dog might eat you then you've got bigger issues.

[straymo]

Respect is earned, not demanded. And not spanking does not = not disciplined and no respect. Blessings!

[redheadbaker]

Jul 10, 2012 15:30:29 GMT -5 M said:

Call me old fashion but if you let your child get away with something they know they're not allowed to do more than a couple times then they will continue to get away with it. It's no wonder there's so many bratty disrespectful kids running around with no manners. They know they won't be disciplined.

Children don't have to be spanked to be disciplined. While my parents did employ spanking on occasion, there were MANY instances where I was disciplined that didn't involve them hitting me.

[M]

Jul 10, 2012 15:47:37 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jul 10, 2012 15:30:29 GMT -5 M said:

Call me old fashion but if you let your child get away with something they know they're not allowed to do more than a couple times then they will continue to get away with it. It's no wonder there's so many bratty disrespectful kids running around with no manners. They know they won't be disciplined.

Children don't have to be spanked to be disciplined. While my parents did employ spanking on occasion, there were MANY instances where I was disciplined that didn't involve them hitting me.

I never said spank every time. I said only if they knew better but did it anyways...as in made the mistake a couple times already after being told not to do it again. I'm pretty sure I said this a couple times already... I was also spanked growing up because I did things that I was told not to do and I knew not to do it but did it anyways hoping I could get away with it. Did I deserve it? Absolutely.

Yes there are other ways like taking things away (for kids), time outs (which worked amazingly on my dog), etc but when it doesn't work, spanking as the final straw usually does it. And it doesn't even have to hurt for dogs to understand. Dogs are not as dumb as people make them out to be.

[M]

Jul 10, 2012 15:44:14 GMT -5 straymo said:

Respect is earned, not demanded. And not spanking does not = not disciplined and no respect. Blessings!

Not sure what your second sentence is saying but you don't earn respect from kids. They earn your respect. Again call me old fashion here, but I was taught to respect my elders no matter who they are.

[redheadbaker]

Jul 10, 2012 17:43:39 GMT -5 M said:

Yes there are other ways like taking things away (for kids), time outs (which worked amazingly on my dog), etc but when it doesn't work, spanking as the final straw usually does it. And it doesn't even have to hurt for dogs to understand. Dogs are not as dumb as people make them out to be.

I can't believe you're still justifying this.

[M]

Jul 10, 2012 18:30:25 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jul 10, 2012 17:43:39 GMT -5 M said:

Yes there are other ways like taking things away (for kids), time outs (which worked amazingly on my dog), etc but when it doesn't work, spanking as the final straw usually does it. And it doesn't even have to hurt for dogs to understand. Dogs are not as dumb as people make them out to be.

I can't believe you're still justifying this.

I never tried to justify anything. Just stating that spanking is not bad. We have different opinions and nothing either of says will change each others minds, but when people don't read and twist my words around, I will say it a different way because obviously what I said the first few times wasn't heard.

I stand by what I say.

[nital]

I don't outweigh my dogs by very much, and they are in much better shape than I am. My dogs are well aware that the world revolves around me, but my point was that they are physically capable of hurting me. Badly.

I've worked with a lot of rescue dogs, some with abused backgrounds, or unknown backgrounds. The last thing they need is fear that a hand might cause them pain. I'm the first to admit my dogs are idiots, but I've trained and fostered a lot of dogs, including some annoyingly smart ones. I never hit any of them either.

My child and dogs all know what is expected from them, and listen to me. To date I have yet to hit any of them. I do, however, find it hilarious that I train them the same way. Naughty behavior gets the stinkeye and an "uh uh!". If they continue, I bodyblock. And if the kid throws a fit, it's usually because she's tired, so I "crate" her in her crib.

[nital]

Jul 10, 2012 17:47:37 GMT -5 M said:

Jul 10, 2012 15:44:14 GMT -5 straymo said:

Respect is earned, not demanded. And not spanking does not = not disciplined and no respect. Blessings!

Not sure what your second sentence is saying but you don't earn respect from kids. They earn your respect. Again call me old fashion here, but I was taught to respect my elders no matter who they are.

Respect is a 2 way street. I listen to elders, but if they're rude or dumb, i ignore them and go along my merry way.