Racism: should it be a crime?

[Deleted]

Depends on the circumstances. Generally speaking, this sounds like a violation of freedom of speech. But this being the Brits and all, idk. lol

[heightsyankee]

Jul 9, 2012 11:36:37 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Depends on the circumstances. Generally speaking, this sounds like a violation of freedom of speech.

I agree with this. It should definitely be against the rules of the sport and have heavy fines levied. It sounds like he will end up with a large fine, but imposed by the government instead.

[ringstrue]

I can't deal with how much athletes cuss eachother out on the field.

[NitaX]

Jul 9, 2012 11:51:48 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I bet he won't do it again.

*giggle snort*

And maybe he should have someone slap him with some fine or whatever their courts decide. Besides, isn't this workplace harassment?

[marynjoe]

That's ridiculous. You can say whatever you want. And the person you insult can say whatever they want right back at you. (Well, assuming it's not yelling fire in a crowded theater.)

[NitaX]

Jul 9, 2012 12:30:30 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

That's ridiculous. You can say whatever you want. And the person you insult can say whatever they want right back at you. (Well, assuming it's not yelling fire in a crowded theater.)

So, you are perfectly ok with your boss (assuming you work) calling you a slut puppy? Or saying you look like A big breasted dream?

He is a professional soccer player. He's being called derogatory names by a fellow professional soccer player. If you want to call me an uppity n-word, do that shit at home. Don't do it at my job. Cause Imma tell you right now, I will beat your ass quicker than a flash of lightening. Consequences be damned.

[Melissa W.]

Jul 9, 2012 12:33:52 GMT -5 NitaX said:

Jul 9, 2012 12:30:30 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

That's ridiculous. You can say whatever you want. And the person you insult can say whatever they want right back at you. (Well, assuming it's not yelling fire in a crowded theater.)

So, you are perfectly ok with your boss (assuming you work) calling you a slut puppy? Or saying you look like A big breasted dream?

He is a professional soccer player. He's being called derogatory names by a fellow professional soccer player. If you want to call me an uppity n-word, do that shit at home. Don't do it at my job. Cause Imma tell you right now, I will beat your ass quicker than a flash of lightening. Consequences be damned.

({) (})

[2vermont]

Jul 9, 2012 12:48:48 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Jul 9, 2012 12:30:30 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

That's ridiculous. You can say whatever you want. And the person you insult can say whatever they want right back at you. (Well, assuming it's not yelling fire in a crowded theater.)

He can say whatever he wants, but, that doesn't mean there are no consequences for saying it. So, good luck with calling your coworker a nigga and remaining employed because, "you can say whatever you want" and "the person you insult can say whatever they want right back at you."

But wasn't the question whether it should be a "crime"?

[NitaX]

Jul 9, 2012 12:50:19 GMT -5 2vermont said:

Jul 9, 2012 12:48:48 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

He can say whatever he wants, but, that doesn't mean there are no consequences for saying it. So, good luck with calling your coworker a nigga and remaining employed because, "you can say whatever you want" and "the person you insult can say whatever they want right back at you."

But wasn't the question whether it should be a "crime"?

2V - This is why I said it should probably considered in the vein of workplace harassment. We have laws/regulations/policies that protect you from sexual harassment, bullying, etc, so why can't you use the same thing for racial epithets?

[2vermont]

Jul 9, 2012 12:53:54 GMT -5 NitaX said:

Jul 9, 2012 12:50:19 GMT -5 2vermont said:

But wasn't the question whether it should be a "crime"?

2V - This is why I said it should probably considered in the vein of workplace harassment. We have laws/regulations/policies that protect you from sexual harassment, bullying, etc, so why can't you use the same thing for racial epithets?

Yes, it does sounds as if in this situation it could fall under workplace harassment/discrimination. However, it sounded as if the charge of "racial abuse" is the actual crime and the fact that it happened at the workplace is irrelevant.

I can see including it as part of the former, but not as a separate crime on its own where anyone could get charged for saying something offensive (and I mean anything, not just racist)...if that makes sense.

[marynjoe]

Workplace harrassment? Sure. Going on trial for it? Not so sure.

[marynjoe]

Jul 9, 2012 13:01:38 GMT -5 2vermont said:

Jul 9, 2012 12:53:54 GMT -5 NitaX said:

2V - This is why I said it should probably considered in the vein of workplace harassment. We have laws/regulations/policies that protect you from sexual harassment, bullying, etc, so why can't you use the same thing for racial epithets?

Yes, it does sounds as if in this situation it could fall under workplace harassment/discrimination. However, it sounded as if the charge of "racial abuse" is the actual crime and the fact that it happened at the workplace is irrelevant.

I can see including it as part of the former, but not as a separate crime on its own where anyone could get charged for saying something offensive (and I mean anything, not just racist)...if that makes sense.

I think I agree with you, if I get what you're saying.

[2vermont]

Jul 9, 2012 13:35:02 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

Jul 9, 2012 13:01:38 GMT -5 2vermont said:

Yes, it does sounds as if in this situation it could fall under workplace harassment/discrimination. However, it sounded as if the charge of "racial abuse" is the actual crime and the fact that it happened at the workplace is irrelevant.

I can see including it as part of the former, but not as a separate crime on its own where anyone could get charged for saying something offensive (and I mean anything, not just racist)...if that makes sense.

I think I agree with you, if I get what you're saying.

I think we agree as well....you just said it more succinctly (ie. should not go on trial for it).

[2vermont]

Jul 9, 2012 14:05:34 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Jul 9, 2012 13:01:38 GMT -5 2vermont said:

I can see including it as part of the former, but not as a separate crime on its own where anyone could get charged for saying something offensive (and I mean anything, not just racist)...if that makes sense.

The crime is for racist abuse, so anyone could not get charged for saying anything offensive that is not just racist. The crime is specifically for racial purposes.

I have no problem with this. If this is a crime on the books, people are on notice. Break the law at your own risk.

Blah blah slippery slope, clearly the UK feels the need for this law and I'm not going to sit there and demand they be more American.

I don't think anyone is saying they should be more American. I think most of us are opining on whether we think that should happen here. And yeah, I do think regulating/criminalizing speech would be a slippery slope. But hey, people are on notice!

[2vermont]

Jul 9, 2012 14:22:53 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Jul 9, 2012 14:08:47 GMT -5 2vermont said:

I don't think anyone is saying they should be more American. I think most of us are opining on whether we think that should happen here. And yeah, I do think regulating/criminalizing speech would be a slippery slope. But hey, people are on notice!

The question was solely about the UK and about whether it should be a crime to do that. The question was not about America - that's just us Americans tending to think it's all about us.

But anyway...I wouldn't mind if this were a crime here. This is one guy at work yelling racial abuse to another guy at work. People should not have to work in these environments and criminal punishment is a good deterrent.

I think the more interesting question is of the penalty. I would not be OK with jailing people over this, as I think it's a poor use of a state's resources. But making money off of racist assholes too idiotic to keep it to themselves while in public at their job? Totally fine, IMO. As it's being done in such a public manner by a public figure, I think it sends a good message that the punishment is being done by the government out in the open.

Enforcement is another issue. I don't think this is something that police should be actively looking for.

Which is why nitaw's idea is a good one...make it part of workplace consequences...enforcement and penalties take place at the workplace.

Do you think Joe Schmoe should be taken away in handcuffs because he called the guy on the grocery checkout line a racist slur?

[Deleted]

Eh, Brits' house, Brit rules. They manage a myriad a things we would find a violation of sacred rights and still manage to be free as well.

I'm not sure I want this here but I'm also not sure it would be fall of civilization as we know it seeing as how John Paul Gautier got his ass in trouble for running his damned mouth in France and it's not like Paris has turned into a gulag in the aftermath.

Sometimes I think we cling a little too desperately to our way being the only good and true way.

[2vermont]

Jul 9, 2012 14:37:44 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Jul 9, 2012 14:31:09 GMT -5 2vermont said:

Which is why nitaw's idea is a good one...make it part of workplace consequences...enforcement and penalties take place at the workplace.

Do you think Joe Schmoe should be taken away in handcuffs because he called the guy on the grocery checkout line a racist slur?

They are often used maliciously and to intimidate and scare people.

And I'm equal opportunity shut 'em the hell up, as this goes for the stupid asses harassing people like Mx and calling her a white bitch when she's walking down Georgia Avenue.

I'm equal opportunity as well which is why I wouldn't support putting handcuffs on those guys either. Lots of things can be said to harass and intimidate others.

[NitaX]

Jul 9, 2012 14:33:14 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Sometimes I think we cling a little too desperately to our way being the only good and true way.

How dare you blaspheme the great AMURICA!!!!!!!!!!!11!

[NitaX]

Jul 9, 2012 13:30:59 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

Workplace harrassment? Sure. Going on trial for it? Not so sure.

Why not? People go to trial for workplace harassment. So, is it just racial slurs that don't deserve the same thing?

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2012 15:03:48 GMT -5 NitaX said:

Jul 9, 2012 14:33:14 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Sometimes I think we cling a little too desperately to our way being the only good and true way.

How dare you blaspheme the great AMURICA!!!!!!!!!!!11!

IT'S OUR GUNS THAT KEEP US SAFE FROM THE COMMIES! COPS WILL BE MOWED DOWN IN STREETS JUST LIKE IN SOVIET YORKSHIRE!

[pixy0stix]

I keep opening this thread and closing it. I really don't have an opinion on this. I can see both sides.

[2vermont]

Jul 9, 2012 15:06:03 GMT -5 NitaX said:

Jul 9, 2012 13:30:59 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

Workplace harrassment? Sure. Going on trial for it? Not so sure.

Why not? People go to trial for workplace harassment. So, is it just racial slurs that don't deserve the same thing?

I can't speak for her, but I'm thinking she means the difference between civil vs criminal trial. I also tend to think criminal when I htink of trial which I know is completely wrong (given I've been on more civil juries than criminal...duh).

[marynjoe]

In America, we have the right to freedom of speech. That doesn't mean everything out of a person's mouth is the right thing to say. If they want to say something that is unacceptable in their work environment (racist, homophobic, misogynistic, you name it), then they have to face the consequences with the employeer.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall

[marynjoe]

Jul 9, 2012 15:11:19 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I keep opening this thread and closing it. I really don't have an opinion on this. I can see both sides.

You really just want us to see you daughter who is so stinkin' cute we can't stand it? Seriously, she is the cutest thing EVER!!!

[pixy0stix]

Jul 9, 2012 17:33:17 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

Jul 9, 2012 15:11:19 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I keep opening this thread and closing it. I really don't have an opinion on this. I can see both sides.

You really just want us to see you daughter who is so stinkin' cute we can't stand it? Seriously, she is the cutest thing EVER!!!

muah ha ha! My evil plan is working! Thanks!

[marynjoe]

How old is she? She doesn't have training wheels?

[NitaX]

Jul 9, 2012 17:25:02 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

In America, we have the right to freedom of speech. That doesn't mean everything out of a person's mouth is the right thing to say. If they want to say something that is unacceptable in their work environment (racist, homophobic, misogynistic, you name it), then they have to face the consequences with the employeer.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall

*note to self, I can say Cracker Ass Cracker to Marynjoe and just say 1st Amendment*

[marynjoe]

Yes you can!