Have we talked about...

[ilovelamp]

people who don't believe in vaccinating their offspring?

My supervisor told me she doesn't vaccinate. I asked what she would do if her daughter's classmate went to visit family in Asia and spread TB to her. She said she would deal with it then. Okay... ^o)

[prettyinpink]

I went to HS with a girl who had had thyroid cancer and her thyroid was removed so she couldn't have some of the Hep vaccines. Because the rest of the school was vaccinated it worked like herd immunity, where because we were all treated she was immune too.

As far as our plans we will vaccinate. I don't really see any reason not too unless the child is allergic to a component of the vaccine. All of the studies on vaccines causing autism have been proving wrong so I don't have any concerns there.

[audette]

Vaccines are awesome. Go herd immunity!

[ilovelamp]

She thinks they don't work. Not that they might possibly harm her child, but she actually thinks they don't do anything. I tried explaining immunity and antibodies to her but it was pointless. Then she proceed to tell me that she gets so sick every flu season.

[meltoine]

I don't believe they work 100% of the time. Hell, I've had a disease, same strain and all, that I was vaccinated against.

That said, I do believe that we have a civic duty to vaccinate ourselves and our children if we can to protect those who can't be vaccinated. I think it's part of living in polite society.

However, I am not giving DS the chicken pox vaccine. There are several problems with it and I have a lot of unanswered questions that three pediatricians haven't been able to clear up. Until I get more information, I will not give him that vaccine.

[prettyinpink]

Mel I totally agree with the chicken pox vaccine.

My PCP wants me to get the gardisil(sp?) vaccine and I politely refuse each time. I know it works but I just don't know that I want it being that for myself I see no reason to need it.

[iluvmytxrgr]

Jul 9, 2012 13:27:23 GMT -5 prettyinpink said:

Mel I totally agree with the chicken pox vaccine.

My PCP wants me to get the gardisil(sp?) vaccine and I politely refuse each time. I know it works but I just don't know that I want it being that for myself I see no reason to need it.

Why the hell would you need the HPV vaccine? You doctor is either getting kick backs or he's a dumb ass.

[JakJak]

Ugh, it seems like the majority of the moms here don't vaccinate their kids...I ask what their reasoning for it is and they pretty much all tell me the same thing "I don't want my kids to get autism" or "all of those dangerous chemicals in them can cause autism". The stupidity is astounding.

[prettyinpink]

Jul 9, 2012 13:36:35 GMT -5 iluvmytxrgr said:

Jul 9, 2012 13:27:23 GMT -5 prettyinpink said:

Mel I totally agree with the chicken pox vaccine.

My PCP wants me to get the gardisil(sp?) vaccine and I politely refuse each time. I know it works but I just don't know that I want it being that for myself I see no reason to need it.

Why the hell would you need the HPV vaccine? You doctor is either getting kick backs or he's a dumb ass.

Every time I go in he offers it to me because of all the benefits of it. And since I'm not yet 26 I can still get it if I want to.

I think he is a dumb ass more than anything.

[JakJak]

Jul 9, 2012 13:22:22 GMT -5 meltoine said:

I don't believe they work 100% of the time. Hell, I've had a disease, same strain and all, that I was vaccinated against.

That said, I do believe that we have a civic duty to vaccinate ourselves and our children if we can to protect those who can't be vaccinated. I think it's part of living in polite society.

However, I am not giving DS the chicken pox vaccine. There are several problems with it and I have a lot of unanswered questions that three pediatricians haven't been able to clear up. Until I get more information, I will not give him that vaccine.

I'm with you on this, I also don't do the flu shot because every single time I get it I get full blown flu.

[audette]

Jul 9, 2012 13:37:26 GMT -5 Stan said:

If I could get the HPV vaccine still, I totally would.

Me too.

[basilosaurus]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Starting with vacuuming for tb (it's not done in most countries, and it is actually not all that effective) and continuing with thinking that the hpv vaccine isn't useful in presumably monogamous adults.

[audette]

Jul 9, 2012 13:54:24 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Starting with vacuuming for tb (it's not done in most countries, and it is actually not all that effective) and continuing with thinking that the hpv vaccine isn't useful in presumably monogamous adults.

And that's why there are so many issues with vaccines. There isn't enough general knowledge about them.


And, as an aside - when I saw TB in that first post my thought was "Damn! why the hell don't I just get a TB vaccine, instead of the folks down at my clinic insisting on me getting a TB test at the drop of a hat, every freaking time I mention travelling somewhere (anywhere - canada, western europe, asia... no difference...)."

I never knew that there _was_ a vaccine for TB. Turns out it's not really effective for me (adult, infrequent travel to places where it might be an issue, and rarely exposed to groups that would be most at risk, either over there or here). Yay, google!


Generally, my thinking falls into the idea that vaccines can do an amazing amount of good. Very rarely are they going to cause any problems. The good vastly outweighs the risk for the general population.

[ilovelamp]

I just used TB as an example. I find it crazy that she would rather have her child go through the pain of a disease instead of just preventing it, even if the immunization isn't 100% guaranteed.

[StormyDixon]

Jul 9, 2012 13:22:22 GMT -5 meltoine said:

I don't believe they work 100% of the time. Hell, I've had a disease, same strain and all, that I was vaccinated against.
.

same here, my first measles vaccine given when I was a baby was later found to be "defective" I got another as a teenager with a booster and still got measles when I was 25.

I am however considering getting the shingles vaccine

[Dumbledork]

I got the HPV vaccine, and Bean will get it when she's old enough. If we have more kids s/he will get it as well.

There's the whole cancer-prevention aspect of it, not to mention that DH is in a career where people shoot at him. Should I need to re-enter the dating scene I'd like to have every possible preventative safety measure in place. Andplusalso, rape.

I admit I have a limited knowledge compared to some, but from what I know, it's a vaccine to get.

[basilosaurus]

Jul 9, 2012 13:27:23 GMT -5 prettyinpink said:

Mel I totally agree with the chicken pox vaccine.

My PCP wants me to get the gardisil(sp?) vaccine and I politely refuse each time. I know it works but I just don't know that I want it being that for myself I see no reason to need it.

OK, now that I've thrown out barbs, I'll be calm again and ask questions.

What about the chicken pox vaccine do you not like/are confused about? It's safe, has been around quite awhile now, and saves a kid at minimum some misery and at most save their lives.

Why do you refuse the HPV vaccine? Are you concerned about its safety? Efficacy? Do you think it's just for women with multiple partners (it's not, btw).

[meltoine]

My questions about the varicella vax are mainly about shingles later in life. There aree several studies that show kids who are vaccinated vs actually getting the disease are more likely to develop shingles. I need to dig further into the research and I would like to talk to DS's pedi about it, but she's pretty clueless. I may well have him vaccinated against it later, and I will make a final decision before he goes to school.

Can I ask what merit you see in the HPV vaccine for people who are/were vigins until marriage and monogamous thereafter? Obviously someone could always cheat and rape is a possibility, but beyond that?

[meltoine]

And I wholeheartedly agree that the information available about vaccines sucks. I would love to be able to have an intelligent conversation with a medical professional about them, but every pedi and peds nurse I've broached the subject with knows nothing beyond the basics of the CDC recommended schedule. I don't expect pedis to know everything, but considering almost al kids get at least one shot at every well visit, you'd think they'd know more about it.

[Dumbledork]

Jul 9, 2012 17:08:50 GMT -5 meltoine said:

Can I ask what merit you see in the HPV vaccine for people who are/were vigins until marriage and monogamous thereafter? Obviously someone could always cheat and rape is a possibility, but beyond that?

Again, our spouses are in a career where people shoot at them. What if you're (not you, just a general you) a young widow and decide to start dating again? Wouldn't you want to be as safe as possible?

Also, cancer prevention. Cancer. Prevention. Why turn that down?

[basilosaurus]

Jul 9, 2012 17:50:41 GMT -5 killercupcake said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, which is a big possibility, but can't HPV happen to people in monogamous relationships? Multiple partners just increases the risk of getting it, right?

So then why not prevent it?

Yes, you can still get it even if you were a virgin at marriage b/c it only requires skin to skin contact. Something like 90% of our generation has at least 1 strain. It's a shot (well, 3) that prevents cancer; I don't understand why the avoidance even if your risk factors are low. If both of you have saved your first kiss til your wedding day, then I'm guessing you're probably ok (until someone cheats, divorces, or dies). But that's not most of us.

As for chickenpox and shingles, there's really not a ton of data since shingles is generally something experienced by older populations (who all got chickenpox in the wild), and the vaccine is new enough that we don't have an aging population to compare it to. At best, from what I've read, there is a hypothetical link for an increase in that as fewer people are exposed to the virus in the wild, they're not getting a booster from that exposure. For instance, they know that moms caring for sick children appear to have a beneficial increase in their resistance.

On the flip side, adults who've gotten a vaccine later in life appear to have increased resistance to shingles. Also, there's a shingles vaccine that's routine for those over 60.

What knowledge should a doctor or nurse have beyond a) the schedule and b) understanding of how vaccines work c) the diseases they protect against. Should they learn of every scare mongering internet article?

[decemberrain]

About the chicken pox vaccine, I got it as a kid and got chicken pox 3 times. My brothers each got it and got chicken pox twice. I'm hoping it's evoloved since but if not I can understand why some people would not want to get their child that vaccine. Also about the flu shot, every year my H and I get a flu shot we both get the flu really really bad. I have not got the flu or the flu shot in 4 years so until I have to be around the elderly or babies I plan to just take my chances.
But over all I think vaccines are great. Sometimes there are people (me) who don't always get the best results with them but overall they do a lot of good. With all the studies that show how good vaccinating your child can be I don't understand why so many parents choose not to vaccinate their children.

[MrsAggie]

Choosing not to vaccinate your child might very well be the most idiotic decision a parent can make. This topic comes up a lot to me since I'm a nursery nurse. Vaccination is something I'm very passionate about, second only to breastfeeding (and really, that's more in order of the infant's life). All I will say is the benefits far outweigh the risks.

I think sibil wrapped up pretty much everything I was going to say. However, I'm confused as to where this information is coming from in regards to shingles. The varicella (aka "chickenpox") vaccine protects against shingles. Different strains of varicella cause both chickenpox and shingles. The idea is that the vaccine protects an individual from both diseases whereas getting chickenpox not only doesn't protect you from shingles, it increases your risk of developing it. Where are y'all reading something different?

[basilosaurus]

Jul 9, 2012 19:52:46 GMT -5 MrsAggie said:

However, I'm confused as to where this information is coming from in regards to shingles.... Where are y'all reading something different?

Like I said, there's a conjectured link that the virus in the wild regularly acts as a booster. As it decreases prevalence, people won't remain as immune, so they're more likely to develop shingles.

I think beyond that there are a few either shitty or misinterpreted studies that float around sites like mothering and mercola that discuss this link. I don't think it's discussed on any legit science-based site.

[basilosaurus]

Jul 9, 2012 19:29:40 GMT -5 decemberrain said:

About the chicken pox vaccine, I got it as a kid and got chicken pox 3 times. My brothers each got it and got chicken pox twice. I'm hoping it's evoloved since but if not I can understand why some people would not want to get their child that vaccine.

This is exactly why people should support the vaccination! You apparently were one of the few in whom the vaccine does not work. Apparently, neither did natural exposure. So you want everyone around you vaccinated so they're not continuing to expose you. That's the concept behind herd immunity.

Jul 9, 2012 19:29:40 GMT -5 decemberrain said:

Also about the flu shot, every year my H and I get a flu shot we both get the flu really really bad.

Maybe you did (if it was ineffective), maybe you didn't. Not every illness actually is the flu, although it can be similar. The vaccine doesn't prevent nasty colds and other winter bugs. What I can tell you is that you can't get the flu from the vaccine nor does it make you more prone to it, so what's your risk in getting it?

[meltoine]

My group of close friends is anomalous, and I know this, but out of 12 or so people I'm really close with, I can tell you that at least eight of them really have no need of the HPV vaccine, barring some freak accident that kills their librarian/teacher/lobbyist spouse. And the likelihood of them losing their spouse is probably about the same as the likelihood of a serious side effect from the vaccine. In these cases, I can support not getting the vaccine.

As for my own son, I feel that his pediatrician should be up to date on recent studies linking the varicella vaccine and shingles. And I'm not talking about shingles in the elderly, I'm talking about 20-40 year olds. And I'm not getting my information from Mothering or Mercola. These are legitimate studies that I've read first hand. I expect a medical professional who dispenses these vaccines to patients all day everyday to be well-informed on all the information out there about them. Hell, I would hope that she'd even be aware of some of the junk science just so she can refute the parents who come in with that info using something other than "Well the CDC recommends X, Y, Z. Period. The End."

[basilosaurus]

What studies? You keep mentioning them, but I haven't found the links on pubmed yet, and I'm looking.

I have, however, found a large scale study (300,000 people) that show no link and an actual increased resistance among vaccinated vs wild. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16126614

I found a study of 10 people that says there might be a link between vaccines in general and reactivating the virus. 10.

I'm not saying your studies don't exist, but I'm not finding them.

What's wrong with the saying it's a CDC rec when they have all the data and studies and experts to come up with them?

[basilosaurus]

Here's another study showing that vaccinated children have decreased rates of shingles.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22627868

[decemberrain]

Jul 9, 2012 20:13:48 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Jul 9, 2012 19:29:40 GMT -5 decemberrain said:

About the chicken pox vaccine, I got it as a kid and got chicken pox 3 times. My brothers each got it and got chicken pox twice. I'm hoping it's evoloved since but if not I can understand why some people would not want to get their child that vaccine.

This is exactly why people should support the vaccination! You apparently were one of the few in whom the vaccine does not work. Apparently, neither did natural exposure. So you want everyone around you vaccinated so they're not continuing to expose you. That's the concept behind herd immunity.

Jul 9, 2012 19:29:40 GMT -5 decemberrain said:

Also about the flu shot, every year my H and I get a flu shot we both get the flu really really bad.

Maybe you did (if it was ineffective), maybe you didn't. Not every illness actually is the flu, although it can be similar. The vaccine doesn't prevent nasty colds and other winter bugs. What I can tell you is that you can't get the flu from the vaccine nor does it make you more prone to it, so what's your risk in getting it?

I'm not sure if it was the flu or if it was a horrible bug but, I haven't been vomiting sick in 4 years without the flu shot. With the shot I would get vomiting sick every year. So I plan to not get it even if it was a terrible coincidence because I hate vomiting with a fiery passion of a thousand suns.

I also hadn't thought about the herd immunity with the chicken pox. You have a very good point there. When I have kids I plan to get them vaccinated for chicken pox because there is a chance that it will work for them and if I can spare them the horrors of chicken pox I will! Sadly both my H and I had chicken pox more than once so it's not looking good for our future offspring.

[sookie]

Jul 9, 2012 13:44:24 GMT -5 audette said:

Jul 9, 2012 13:37:26 GMT -5 Stan said:

If I could get the HPV vaccine still, I totally would.

Me too.

I got it, and I was already married when I did. I figured insurance paid for it, and if nothing else, it was just one more vaccine that may or may not help later down the road.