Baby safety on flights

[lin]

Hi everyone - I know this question or ones similar have been asked multiple times, but I need to get some thoughts. Currently living in Thailand and planning to travel to the UK (DH's family) and US (mine) this summer, and then back to Thailand. Basically, lots of long haul flights. Joining us for the first time will be DD, who will be four and a half months old when our trip begins. I was asking on another board about the bulkhead seats with the bassinets and if they were worth it or not, and someone responded with this link:

csftl.org/leaving-on-a-jet-plane-the-csftl-guide-to-safe-air-travel-with-children/

Basically, it says that having a child under 2 on your lap (or in a  bassinet, presumably) during a flight is not safe and that everyone should be strapped in (so basically, everyone should buy a ticket for their baby so you know you will have a place to put them in their car seat for the flight.) Of course, nothing guilts a parent faster than suggesting they are not prioritizing their child's safety - but we're talking about $3,000 for one person's ticket here. DH and I are teachers; we don't make a ton of money and do not have a company that pays for our flights, so $3,000 is serious, and it just seems like a lot to spend on a four month old. So I guess I'm wondering what others of you have done in the past; have you bought a ticket for the baby for this reason? Just chanced that there would be an empty seat on the flight you could sit next to and use? Never even thought about it at all? Thoughts and advice appreciated!

[anna7602]

DD traveled on my lap until she was 2. As jamaicam said, with all the BFing, a seat (or even a bassinet) wouldn't have done much good on many of our flights anyway.

You have to make your own decisions about calculated risks. I can deal with winging it for a flight. I couldn't, for example, deal with winging it in a car when I traveled to a country in which car seats are not used at all for young children. So, I traveled with DD on my lap on the flight there, then used a car seat in a car in the country in question. I figured there was more of a chance of us getting in a car accident than of something happening on the plane. Scientific or not, it was how I made my decision.

[Shreddingbetty]

Dd started flying as a lap child when she was 10 days old. The first time to Europe at 4 months. The only time we bought her a seat was at 16 months when we flew to Europe mostly for convenience and not so much safety. On the way out DH and I got upgraded so she was in my lap anyway. On the way back she was in her seat (first and last time we used the car seat on the plane) and the only time she was in her seat was for an hour nap at the beginning of the 8 hour flight and an hour at the end of the flight. The rest of the time she was in my lap anyway. The car seat takes up so much space that they really can only sit in the seat the entire time and that was not happening for 8 hours (plus at that time she really wasn't into watching anything on use iPad )
At 4 months she was on me the whole time anyway nursing a ton and sleeping. A seat would've been a waste. I'm with anna on this one too. If the plane crashes a ca seat isn't gonna help much anyway. I know that turbulence is a risk but much less so than getting in a car wreck. Once she turned 2 she got her own seat and we started using the CARES harness. We gate check the car seat.

[Deleted]

Mar 13, 2014 21:53:25 GMT -5 Shreddingbetty said:

Dd started flying as a lap child when she was 10 days old. The first time to Europe at 4 months. The only time we bought her a seat was at 16 months when we flew to Europe mostly for convenience and not so much safety. On the way out DH and I got upgraded so she was in my lap anyway. On the way back she was in her seat (first and last time we used the car seat on the plane) and the only time she was in her seat was for an hour nap at the beginning of the 8 hour flight and an hour at the end of the flight. The rest of the time she was in my lap anyway. The car seat takes up so much space that they really can only sit in the seat the entire time and that was not happening for 8 hours (plus at that time she really wasn't into watching anything on use iPad )
At 4 months she was on me the whole time anyway nursing a ton and sleeping. A seat would've been a waste. I'm with anna on this one too. If the plane crashes a ca seat isn't gonna help much anyway. I know that turbulence is a risk but much less so than getting in a car wreck. Once she turned 2 she got her own seat and we started using the CARES harness. We gate check the car seat.

This is absolutely not true.  Sure, if the airplane breaks up or falls out of the sky, then a seat might not help much…but it might.   You are more likely to encounter turbulence, or have an issue on take-off or landing.  A lap child would be in HUGE danger in severe turbulence without being restrained.   And take-off and landing are just like being in a car going 150ish miles an hour -- you wouldn't do that with an infant in your lap, would you?  

I've never traveled with a baby, but I've heard from friends that it's a HUGE pain to bring a carseat, not always practical to get an extra seat, etc.  I don't claim to be an expert on flying with babies.  If you choose to fly with a child in your lap/in your arms (which I'm sure I will probably do at some point), just know that there ARE risks associated with it, and that a car seat most likely WOULD help in the event of an airplane crash. 

[travelingturtle]

I didn't buy a seat for my son our first int'l flight (he was 6 months) and we were lucky that the int'l segments had an extra seat both to the US and back. When my daughter was 2 months we flew to the US and I expected the same route to have extra seats, it didn't. So she was a lap baby. She was so little and BF the whole time that it wasn't a big deal. The safety issue made me nervous the whole flight, though. As VillainV said, there's not much help a carseat provides should the plane fall apart in the sky, but the takeoff, landing and severe turbulence are the issues.

The next time we flew with them overseas she was 1 and we bought her ticket. For the domestic portions she didn't want to be in the car seat, and I held her the whole time anyway. Since it was an int'l flight we only paid 75% of the fare.

I don't know what to say whether it's worth it or not. My daughter loves to be held so buying her a ticket almost seemed crazy because chances were she wasn't going to want the seat anyway... but, she was fine in the seat for the international portion and it helped so much. Another factor that went into the planning was how the seats were configured. If you can sit with just you and your husband, then I'd more likely not want to buy another seat. But, if (and I doubt this is the case) the planes are only 3 and 3 seating configurations, then I'd want a seat just for more comfort.

[caden]

Does the airline offer reduced fares for an infant's seat? Might be something to look into.

I have twins and I wasn't about to pay for 2 infants to have seats, so they were lap babies, but it isn't the safest. I've heard of some moms using baby carriers on the plane. I never tried it but maybe that would help a bit?

[frlcb]

We definitely had lap babies on many flights with both of our kids until they were 1, then they became difficult to hold for long periods of time, so we started buying seats. It is absolutely the safest place for them to be, in their own seat. Truthfully if we had a third I would likely not do lap children any more.

Also baby carriers can't be worn during taxi, takeoff and landing, at least in the US. But on international carriers they often give you a seatbelt to loop through yours to buckle in your lap baby (they aren't allowed in the US either) so that would probably help.

Only you guys can weigh your options. All the research shows it is safer for them to have their own seat. But people have lap babies ALL the time.

[rupertpenny]

I've flown with my baby as a lap child at 10 weeks and 6 months. On Cathay I got the extra little seatbelt thingy for her. The bassinet was good at 10 weeks, but at 6 months she wanted nothing to do with it. I don't think I'll bother to book one again.

Even if you can't use a carrier for takeoff or landing I still find one to be very useful. They allowed B to sleep on me without tying up my hands which was great.

They only other advice I have is to wear very nursing friendly outfits if you're breastfeeding. I wore a nursing tank with no bra underneath and a t shirt on top. It was a good mix of discretion and easy access.

[pittpurple]

My daughter has always been a lap baby, on many flights now. It's definitely more safe (and nicer for space reasons) to get them their own seat, but we really can't afford to spend $2K that we don't have to so I take the risk.

Like lots of things, looking around online will only give you all the outliers - all the people who are vehemently pro or con on anything. So you just need to think about it for yourselves and figure out what is best for your family.

And from a practical standpoint, a baby carrier was super helpful for us. When she was tiny, I'd feed her and then she'd just snuggle in and sleep (the plane noise is super soothing) and it was nice to have my hands free!

[Shreddingbetty]

Mar 14, 2014 2:00:44 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Mar 13, 2014 21:53:25 GMT -5 Shreddingbetty said:

Dd started flying as a lap child when she was 10 days old. The first time to Europe at 4 months. The only time we bought her a seat was at 16 months when we flew to Europe mostly for convenience and not so much safety. On the way out DH and I got upgraded so she was in my lap anyway. On the way back she was in her seat (first and last time we used the car seat on the plane) and the only time she was in her seat was for an hour nap at the beginning of the 8 hour flight and an hour at the end of the flight. The rest of the time she was in my lap anyway. The car seat takes up so much space that they really can only sit in the seat the entire time and that was not happening for 8 hours (plus at that time she really wasn't into watching anything on use iPad )
At 4 months she was on me the whole time anyway nursing a ton and sleeping. A seat would've been a waste. I'm with anna on this one too. If the plane crashes a ca seat isn't gonna help much anyway. I know that turbulence is a risk but much less so than getting in a car wreck. Once she turned 2 she got her own seat and we started using the CARES harness. We gate check the car seat.

This is absolutely not true.  Sure, if the airplane breaks up or falls out of the sky, then a seat might not help much…but it might.   You are more likely to encounter turbulence, or have an issue on take-off or landing.  A lap child would be in HUGE danger in severe turbulence without being restrained.   And take-off and landing are just like being in a car going 150ish miles an hour -- you wouldn't do that with an infant in your lap, would you?  

I've never traveled with a baby, but I've heard from friends that it's a HUGE pain to bring a carseat, not always practical to get an extra seat, etc.  I don't claim to be an expert on flying with babies.  If you choose to fly with a child in your lap/in your arms (which I'm sure I will probably do at some point), just know that there ARE risks associated with it, and that a car seat most likely WOULD help in the event of an airplane crash. 

I definitely know there are risks involved and that I am taking a chance with a baby in my lap. And I know you are right that a car seat may help in some crashes....just not the ones that come falling out of the sky which is what I think of.  But rightly or wrongly so I guess I was willing to take the risk as plane travel is usually very safe (and I am a total stickler for car seat saftey in the car, DD is still RF at almost 4 so maybe that is hypocritical  ).  Car seats on the plane are a huge pain especially with as little space there is these days (it seems to be shrinking every time!). Too bad they don't let you wear your baby in a carrier for take off and landing because it would seem like that would be safer than just holding them.

Anyway, I do totally get your argument and you are right.  But it still would not make me get a separate seat for my baby if we had another one.

[Deleted]

Shreddingbetty, I'm sorry if it felt like I was calling you out. I totally get that traveling with a carseat is not always possible or practical, and my husband and I will most likely travel with our baby in our laps/arms at some point. I'm in the aviation field, and have taken a lot of courses on aviation safety. The truth is that despite what you see on TV and in movies, airplanes don't just fall out of the sky. The VAST majority of accidents occur curing takeoff or landing (when the plane is closer to both the ground and to other aircraft), or during turbulence. If it's mandatory for all passengers to wear their seat belts during these phases of flight, and you can't even have a laptop out, then it's definitely risky to have a baby in your arms. Just yesterday a commercial jet aborted a takeoff in Philly due to a blown tire and collapsed nose gear. I'm guessing the pilot aborted the takeoff at around 120-140 mph? And had to bring the plane to a halt, in probably only a few thousand feet (less than half a mile). I've done this in an airplane before (in my five-point harness) and it's uncomfortable -- I certainly wouldn't want to do that with a baby in my arms.

The sad truth is that the airline industry doesn't make it easy to bring your carseat on board. It's a huge pain through security, the carseat might not fit into a narrow airline seat (they are getting narrower!), they are difficult to install under the best of circumstances, and it's really expensive. It's a shame, really, that our federal and state governments mandate car seats for children, but don't do anything to make airline travel any safer for babies. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine. Sorry if you felt like you were on the receiving end of my frustration on this topic :-)

[anna7602]

Mar 14, 2014 11:22:50 GMT -5 eso said:

Keep in mind that there are other forms of public transportation where seat belts are not available. The laws and risks can sometimes be different than for a car.

This is true. I've also never had any kind of belt or safe containment device for DD on city buses (not even a stroller, since in NY they make you fold up the stroller to board the bus) or on trains (Amtrak or TGV-type lines as well as suburban trains). There are lots of risks associated with these methods of transportation. It's front page news today that the Metro North system has many safety issues. But again, it's a calculated risk.

[dulcemariamar]

We do lap because my LO screams her head off in the car seat. She is like a beast. She would just end up in my lap because I can't let her scream for a good portion of a ten hour flight.

[Shreddingbetty]

Mar 14, 2014 11:11:28 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Shreddingbetty, I'm sorry if it felt like I was calling you out. I totally get that traveling with a carseat is not always possible or practical, and my husband and I will most likely travel with our baby in our laps/arms at some point. I'm in the aviation field, and have taken a lot of courses on aviation safety. The truth is that despite what you see on TV and in movies, airplanes don't just fall out of the sky. The VAST majority of accidents occur curing takeoff or landing (when the plane is closer to both the ground and to other aircraft), or during turbulence. If it's mandatory for all passengers to wear their seat belts during these phases of flight, and you can't even have a laptop out, then it's definitely risky to have a baby in your arms. Just yesterday a commercial jet aborted a takeoff in Philly due to a blown tire and collapsed nose gear. I'm guessing the pilot aborted the takeoff at around 120-140 mph? And had to bring the plane to a halt, in probably only a few thousand feet (less than half a mile). I've done this in an airplane before (in my five-point harness) and it's uncomfortable -- I certainly wouldn't want to do that with a baby in my arms.

The sad truth is that the airline industry doesn't make it easy to bring your carseat on board. It's a huge pain through security, the carseat might not fit into a narrow airline seat (they are getting narrower!), they are difficult to install under the best of circumstances, and it's really expensive. It's a shame, really, that our federal and state governments mandate car seats for children, but don't do anything to make airline travel any safer for babies. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine. Sorry if you felt like you were on the receiving end of my frustration on this topic :-)

No worries, I did not really feel attacked . I remembered you worked in aviation and I know you are right. I wish they had actual discounted tickets for kids but the sad thruth is that I have never had a ticket cheaper for my 3 y/o than for an adult,

[Shreddingbetty]

Mar 14, 2014 11:17:48 GMT -5 eso said:

Mar 14, 2014 2:00:44 GMT -5 @villainv said:

A lap child would be in HUGE danger in severe turbulence without being restrained.; And take-off and landing are just like being in a car going 150ish miles an hour -- you wouldn't do that with an infant in your lap, would you?

They make you restrain the child. You are not allowed to have a child without a belt when the seatbelt sign is on. You put them in your lap and put the seatbelt over both of you. A seatbelt and two adult arms make it pretty safe.

They have never made me buckle DD in when she was a lap child.  I think I may have done it once or twice but they have never required it.  We only fly United so maybe it ia airline specific.

[frlcb]

Mar 14, 2014 11:17:48 GMT -5 eso said:

Mar 14, 2014 2:00:44 GMT -5 @villainv said:

A lap child would be in HUGE danger in severe turbulence without being restrained.; And take-off and landing are just like being in a car going 150ish miles an hour -- you wouldn't do that with an infant in your lap, would you?

They make you restrain the child. You are not allowed to have a child without a belt when the seatbelt sign is on. You put them in your lap and put the seatbelt over both of you. A seatbelt and two adult arms make it pretty safe.

Um, no. You are not allowed to do this in the US at all, I believe it is actually against FAA rules. You may be talking about international flights, but even then I have never been told to put my seatbelt over both of us, either you hold them tight or they give you the extra seatbelt to loop through (again, not allowed in the US)

[crimsonandclover]

FTR, I tried to buy DD2 a seat on our trip to the US next Christmas because she'll be almost 2 and I will hopefully be pregnant. But when I had to put in our birthdates, the site (opodo) said she was too young to have her own seat and I had to cancel it. :/
I guess I don't understand why carriers aren't allowed. I've read about flight attendants saying that when they've gone through severe turbulence, they've seen how the babies in baby carriers are safe while the other forms of securing babies just don't work. And apparently (villianv can probably say more about this), the forces involved make it almost literally impossible to hold on to your baby with only your arms. I've also always thought - you know, if something were to go wrong during take-off or landing, wouldn't it be better if the baby were strapped to me in a carrier so I have both hands free than if I have to worry about unfastening the baby's seat belt, my seat belt, and carrying a screaming terrified child while trying to maneuver out of the plane with only one or no hands?

Does anyone know why carriers aren't allowed during take-off and landing?

[frlcb]

Mar 14, 2014 15:23:12 GMT -5 crimsonandclover said:

FTR, I tried to buy DD2 a seat on our trip to the US next Christmas because she'll be almost 2 and I will hopefully be pregnant. But when I had to put in our birthdates, the site (opodo) said she was too young to have her own seat and I had to cancel it. :/
I guess I don't understand why carriers aren't allowed. I've read about flight attendants saying that when they've gone through severe turbulence, they've seen how the babies in baby carriers are safe while the other forms of securing babies just don't work. And apparently (villianv can probably say more about this), the forces involved make it almost literally impossible to hold on to your baby with only your arms. I've also always thought - you know, if something were to go wrong during take-off or landing, wouldn't it be better if the baby were strapped to me in a carrier so I have both hands free than if I have to worry about unfastening the baby's seat belt, my seat belt, and carrying a screaming terrified child while trying to maneuver out of the plane with only one or no hands?

Does anyone know why carriers aren't allowed during take-off and landing?

They aren't an FAA approved restraint

Don't book through opopo. The only airline that doesn't allow kids under 2 a seat is Air Italia

[potatopie]

Mar 14, 2014 16:40:49 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Don't book through opopo. The only airline that doesn't allow kids under 2 a seat is Air Italia

I just saw one airline (can't remember which one) that said they have to be at least 6 months to have their own seat, but I'm sure that meant without a carseat. Any younger than that and they wouldn't be able to sit in the chair on their own.

eso, I flew American Airlines over the holidays and they never even acknowledged that we had a baby (4 months old). We were in the bulkhead, but they don't offer a bassinet or a lap belt. We had DS laying on the floor and then napping in the seat between us. They didn't care about anything. The only directions we got was when we were about to land and the steward sitting right in front of us said we should probably hold him in our arms (he was napping on the seat diagonally) because the force when we land will make him slip off. We were hesitant to wake him, but thank goodness we did. He totally would have rolled off. Thank goodness the guy told us. He said he's seen little babies slip under the seatbelts during landings!

[americaninoz]

Mar 14, 2014 14:19:51 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Mar 14, 2014 11:17:48 GMT -5 eso said:

They make you restrain the child. You are not allowed to have a child without a belt when the seatbelt sign is on. You put them in your lap and put the seatbelt over both of you. A seatbelt and two adult arms make it pretty safe.

Um, no. You are not allowed to do this in the US at all, I believe it is actually against FAA rules. You may be talking about international flights, but even then I have never been told to put my seatbelt over both of us, either you hold them tight or they give you the extra seatbelt to loop through (again, not allowed in the US)

I agree with frlcb. We have NEVER been allowed to buckle dd into our own belt - that is strictly against the rules. Virgin Australia provides you with a belt that loops onto yours -so they have their own belt while sitting on your lap.

We did lap baby until she was 2. And another previous question about cost - MOST airlines charge 75% of the international fare for a child (under13)

[Deleted]

I haven't read anyone else's replies so sorry if this has been re-hased but I googled the crap out of this once to find out exactly how many babies have actually been hurt while flying as a lap child and the only thing I could come up with was domestically, 32 people on average each year are hurt because of turbulence and something like half were crew members. That left like 16 people a year who were hurt verus the MILLIONS that actually fly.

Personally, I think for $3,000 I would take my chances my kid isn't 1 in 1,000,000.

[origami]

Someone put this in perspective for me recently. Lap babies on planes are statistically safer than babies in car seats in cars. That's how much safer flying is than driving. Yes babies in car seats in planes are safer than lap babies, but it's not like you're being a terrible reckless mom by sharing a seat.