Ultra race?

[marcyiam]

I can't remember - who was it that signed up for one - was it a 50 miler?

How's the training going?

(or did you already run it??)

[clseale]

blndsnbrdr, come talk about your races/training!!

[runaways]

Mar 17, 2014 20:44:28 GMT -5 clseale said:

blndsnbrdr, come talk about your races/training!!

I was going to tag her earlier but I can never remember how to spell her SN!

[blndsnbrdr]

HI!

Yea, world's stupidest SN ever, I was a kid...don't hate! (it's blondsnowboarder, without vowels. or a w?)

Onto the racing...


I have the Quad Rock 50M in Fort Collins, CO on May 10th. I've seriously considered dropping to the 25M because life is kicking my butt. For real, not for excuse -- changed jobs that has a mix of 2-4hr commutes, living between my apt and friend's house, moving apts, crazy awesome snow for snowboarding (okay, that's an excuse).

BUT, I decided a 25M wasn't far enough (wtf am I?!) so I am going into the race fully expecting to cover 50M. Not fast, not without misery, but 50 miles.

My training has been really haphazard, to say the least. I'll go from a 18 mile week to a 30 mile weekend to a 21 mile day to...whatever happens to happen. There have been back-to-back long-ish runs, back-to-back double digits, three-a-days and lots of cross training (snowboarding, backcountry touring, etc).

After the Quad Rock 50M I am signed up for the North Fork 50M (Pine, CO) and Run, Rabbit, Run 100M (Steamboat Springs, CO) with a few 50K's sprinkled in there (hopefully one before the Quad Rock 50M, if only for the mileage).


...and there you have it, the most harebrained, random, all over the place reply ever!

[biomaj5]

I'm seriously considering doing an ultra in October. It's time rather than distance. It's called 24 the Hard Way, and it has 12 and 6hr options. I know I can't do 24, but I'd like to try 12hrs. I don't even know where to begin with training, beyond knowing that I'll need to do long runs on both Saturdays and Sundays. I'm excited about it.

[thom]

blndsnbrdr- When is that 100 mile?! I don't know how you're keeping things together w/ that sort of work, commute, plus training. Is someone still feeding the cat??

What's your longest run before the 50 mile? It seems to me that those long races become so mental it hardly matters if 30 or 40 or whatever is your longest, but then again I know nothing. How about before 100 miles?? Will you spend a day doing 60-70 a month before, or is that asking too much from the body?

{Share when you have a chance.}

[blndsnbrdr]

Mar 18, 2014 15:26:45 GMT -5 biomaj5 said:

I'm seriously considering doing an ultra in October. It's time rather than distance. It's called 24 the Hard Way, and it has 12 and 6hr options. I know I can't do 24, but I'd like to try 12hrs. I don't even know where to begin with training, beyond knowing that I'll need to do long runs on both Saturdays and Sundays. I'm excited about it.

You can totally do the 24 hour! If its a time based race you can always stop for a quick nap and/or breather if needed. Is it a loop course (most time based races are)? If so, you'll have lots of chances to stop by home base and re-eval.

Do it... #runabler



All my training research has back-to-back long runs as a very important part. If you can get out on softer trails it is surprisingly easy. Of course, easy is a relative term, but compared to what I put my body through for road marathons the extra long distance trail running has been much "easier" on my body and mind!

[blndsnbrdr]

Mar 18, 2014 15:30:20 GMT -5 thom said:

blndsnbrdr- When is that 100 mile?! I don't know how you're keeping things together w/ that sort of work, commute, plus training. Is someone still feeding the cat??

What's your longest run before the 50 mile? It seems to me that those long races become so mental it hardly matters if 30 or 40 or whatever is your longest, but then again I know nothing. How about before 100 miles?? Will you spend a day doing 60-70 a month before, or is that asking too much from the body?

{Share when you have a chance.}

I have no idea how I've kept my head on straight -- by far the mileage is what is suffering the most. But when I do get long runs in (17 on Sat + 13 on Sun OR 12 Sun AM + 9 Sun PM) I feel really good about it. My legs feel good, no pain, faster pace (on flatter ground than the race) than expected and mostly smiles. It's been really interesting to me.

I'm hoping to have at least two weekends of 30M + 10-15M runs (40-45M weekend) plus two additional weeks of 20M + something runs (25-35M weekends). The race is 8 weeks off (May 10th) so that'll give me a low week plus two weeks of taper time. My only goal is survival and beating cut off times. It is a really hilly course (11,000 ft of gain and loss) so it'll be a challenge, though a friend told me I'll be hiking uphill half the race so I really only need to train to run 25 miles...sort of true. Final cut off for the race is 14 hours, I believe, and honestly, that time will make me happy considering the training. I think I can probably pull off something with a 12...maybe.

As for the 100M race...it is not until September 12-13 so I have some time to train. For real train, after the commuting has calmed down and trails stop getting closed down for mud.

I have the May 50M plus the North Fork 50M in June...those will be my two longest single runs before the 100M race. 

Rather than a single 60-70M run I'll end up with some really long sandwich weekends, back-to-back-to-back long runs. The distances in a single weekend will range from 10-30 miles per run, most likely with the longest run in the middle. The training itself will be a mix of time/distance running. The 100M course also has crazy elevation changes (22,000 ft of gain and loss) so sometimes a 14er summit that is only 10 miles but has 5,000ft of gain/loss and involves 6hrs of hike/running at high elevation may substitute for a 15M run. Partly because I can talk my way through that excuse and partly because I still want to enjoy my summer, have friends and see something new in all the training.

___


Does that all make sense? I'm no expert so I have no idea how successful I will be but I'm getting a lot of support and input from very experienced ultra runners (multiple 100M's + 6day runs + 350-500M runs + complete crazy people). They have been incredibly supportive and full of info. Since they have all instigated this crazy they will also be responsible for pacing/crewing my whiney ass on race day! 

[thom]

Wow; thanks for all the info blndsnbrdr. I'll be cheering you on these next few months. My marathon is May 10th too!

The back-to-back long runs on the weekend makes sense. I don't think I could ever make 100 mile training work in my life schedule, but the idea of a 50K is definitely growing on me. Just more flat than the mountainous ones you run!

[blndsnbrdr]

Mar 18, 2014 17:11:19 GMT -5 thom said:

Wow; thanks for all the info blndsnbrdr. I'll be cheering you on these next few months. My marathon is May 10th too!

The back-to-back long runs on the weekend makes sense. I don't think I could ever make 100 mile training work in my life schedule, but the idea of a 50K is definitely growing on me. Just more flat than the mountainous ones you run!

Yea...it's going to eat up a lot of my weekends. Actually, I think I'll get pretty good at pulling off long runs during the week - that'll be a lot easier when it's not always dark/cold (or so I tell myself).

A 50K is definitely attainable for you - its basically marathon training! You should come visit...we have some not-so-hilly ones! Like Bear Chase, my first! Just saying...

[AAM2012]

blndsnbrdr thank you for sharing your schedule, good luck to you in your races this year! I have some more questions for you..lol sorry if this is annoying:

I just did my first 50k and my feet have horrible blisters. Do you ever have that problem? I have tried several different kind of shoes and it always happens in the same spot no matter what.

Also, do you recover from your races quickly or is your body so used to running that it's no big deal?

[biomaj5]

Mar 18, 2014 16:28:10 GMT -5 blndsnbrdr said:

Mar 18, 2014 15:26:45 GMT -5 biomaj5 said:

I'm seriously considering doing an ultra in October. It's time rather than distance. It's called 24 the Hard Way, and it has 12 and 6hr options. I know I can't do 24, but I'd like to try 12hrs. I don't even know where to begin with training, beyond knowing that I'll need to do long runs on both Saturdays and Sundays. I'm excited about it.

You can totally do the 24 hour! If its a time based race you can always stop for a quick nap and/or breather if needed. Is it a loop course (most time based races are)? If so, you'll have lots of chances to stop by home base and re-eval.

Do it... #runabler



All my training research has back-to-back long runs as a very important part. If you can get out on softer trails it is surprisingly easy. Of course, easy is a relative term, but compared to what I put my body through for road marathons the extra long distance trail running has been much "easier" on my body and mind!

Perhaps this needs to be in a different post so I don't threadjack, but maybe it's too late for that now

24 the Hard Way has 2 surface options: a 1 mile paved loop, or a 4ish mile trail option. Both have 24hr, 12hr, 6hr, and 1hr options. I've never done any kind of trail run because I'm a horrible klutz, so I gravitated towards the road option. I talked to some people in the LRS, and they said you can start, run a mile, and then go home to sleep if you wanted as long as you come back before the end (that seems so... disorganized? Lax? I'm not sure of the word I want for that. I'd plan to at least stay on the property for the entire time. No going home for me.) The races don't all start together. The 12hr and 6hr start on Friday night at 7pm and go until the time is up. The 24hr starts at 9am Sat and ends at 9am Sunday.

As for training, I'm doing a marathon around Sept 14 (the exact date hasn't been announced yet), so training for that will start at the end of May. Where do you suggest I go for an ultra training plan? I'm assuming that the full would fit nicely into an ultra plan. I've only used Hal Higdon to date for the 2 fulls and 2 halfs that I've run. I also have some reservations about doing the 24hr option because I'm not sure I'd get through it injury-free. This is why I think I'd be pushing myself too much to do 24. I think that I could do 12 and consider it a decent accomplishment. I find 24hrs to be intimidating, but I'm a firm believer in training plans, so maybe it's possible.

FTR, I have a 100m run on my bucket list. But not yet.

ETA: I'm going back up to read your other replies, so it's possible that you've answered my questions already.

[marcyiam]

Good luck to you! I am just in awe. And I think I'm going to stick to my Half. ;-)

[blndsnbrdr]

Mar 18, 2014 18:01:41 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

blndsnbrdr thank you for sharing your schedule, good luck to you in your races this year! I have some more questions for you..lol sorry if this is annoying:

I just did my first 50k and my feet have horrible blisters. Do you ever have that problem? I have tried several different kind of shoes and it always happens in the same spot no matter what.

Also, do you recover from your races quickly or is your body so used to running that it's no big deal?

Ask away! I'm no expert but I'll share what I know! And I think it is awesome that more people are taking on these crazy distances (makes me feel more normal...)!

In the land of blisters I have lucked out big time. The tips of my toes will blister and I am always missing toenails (have 3 that consistently abandon me) but nothing major. My only suggestion would be changing up your socks? I've had great luck with Thorlo (LOVE them and how my feet feel the second I take my shoes off) and smartwool (good for wet conditions). I've also heard great things about Injinji socks but haven't tried them. It took me a while to find someone at the LRS who understood my feet/shoes/ultra needs but she has been really helpful. As a fellow ultra runner she understands completely that the crazy long distances on trails are 110% different on shoes/feet than road races. I actually met her thru ultra friends, but it may be worth asking around to see if anyone has recs for a specific LRS and/or LRS sales rep/shoe fitter.

I recovered fairly quickly after my 50K, which surprised me. I didn't push my pace at all until the last 4 miles so I think that played a part there. The course was improvised late minute (CO flooding last fall) so there was a lot more pavement that did a number on my knees but I was out for a 2 mile run the next day and didn't die. It wasn't easy, but it felt good to know I could still run. With no traing plan in place I just kind of ran whatever whenever after the race. I didn't race much the rest of the month but 4 weeks post-50K I PR'ed a 15K, then PR'ed a few 5K/10K's...which basically means my previous times were slow! I have no idea if this is normal (the "softness" of trails/dirt definitely helped tho!) and am fully prepared the hate the 4 steps required to get into the office post-50M.

[blndsnbrdr]

Mar 18, 2014 18:22:34 GMT -5 biomaj5 said:

Mar 18, 2014 16:28:10 GMT -5 blndsnbrdr said:

You can totally do the 24 hour! If its a time based race you can always stop for a quick nap and/or breather if needed. Is it a loop course (most time based races are)? If so, you'll have lots of chances to stop by home base and re-eval.

Do it... #runabler



All my training research has back-to-back long runs as a very important part. If you can get out on softer trails it is surprisingly easy. Of course, easy is a relative term, but compared to what I put my body through for road marathons the extra long distance trail running has been much "easier" on my body and mind!

Perhaps this needs to be in a different post so I don't threadjack, but maybe it's too late for that now

24 the Hard Way has 2 surface options: a 1 mile paved loop, or a 4ish mile trail option. Both have 24hr, 12hr, 6hr, and 1hr options. I've never done any kind of trail run because I'm a horrible klutz, so I gravitated towards the road option. I talked to some people in the LRS, and they said you can start, run a mile, and then go home to sleep if you wanted as long as you come back before the end (that seems so... disorganized? Lax? I'm not sure of the word I want for that. I'd plan to at least stay on the property for the entire time. No going home for me.) The races don't all start together. The 12hr and 6hr start on Friday night at 7pm and go until the time is up. The 24hr starts at 9am Sat and ends at 9am Sunday.

As for training, I'm doing a marathon around Sept 14 (the exact date hasn't been announced yet), so training for that will start at the end of May. Where do you suggest I go for an ultra training plan? I'm assuming that the full would fit nicely into an ultra plan. I've only used Hal Higdon to date for the 2 fulls and 2 halfs that I've run. I also have some reservations about doing the 24hr option because I'm not sure I'd get through it injury-free. This is why I think I'd be pushing myself too much to do 24. I think that I could do 12 and consider it a decent accomplishment. I find 24hrs to be intimidating, but I'm a firm believer in training plans, so maybe it's possible.

FTR, I have a 100m run on my bucket list. But not yet.

ETA: I'm going back up to read your other replies, so it's possible that you've answered my questions already.

I say hi-jack your heart out!

Initially I wanted to say go for the trail, it's easier on your body...but then I read the course description. Any chance you can go run the 4 mile loop before making a decision? Having the trail will be nice for the softer surface and change of scenery; however, technical trail on minimal sleep could spell disaster (and great battle scars to brag about, just saying...).

That's the funny thing I've learned about ultras -- to an outsider (anyone who hasn't been in the middle of the chaos, its not a cult! they seem crazy disorganized or chaotic. In reality there is a ton of team work among RDs, volunteers, crew members and even between individual runners. That is what makes the sport so awesome -- all the love. To an extent the runner has a fair amount of individual responsibility (know the rules, run the right direction on loop courses, know the route on complex courses, etc). I guess every runner needs to know all of that but with road races and shorter distances trail markers and elements are easier to contend with.

Training plans are also interesting in the land of ultras -- they really don't exist in the same context as full/half plans do. Your long runs increase in a very similar fashion, but no one has really taken a plan and said "here, this is how you train for an ultra". It's probably just a matter of time before someone capitalizes on it but with such long distances/times people kind of down their own thing - what works for them. In my humble opinion and based upon what I've researched I think your best bet would be training for time-on-feet, not distance. And get at least one night run in so you know what you're up against (nvm, I don't think you run at night with the 12hr).

Doing a 12 hour race is a huge accomplishment! It makes you crazy, the good kind of crazy! And you'll be more prepared for a successful, smiley 24hr race. 

And keep that 100M on the bucket list...I promise to make it sound fun, if I survive!

[blndsnbrdr]

...and obviously I like talking. Wow.

If there is anyone else doing long distances feel free to interject, I'll shut up for a while now!

[AAM2012]

Thank you blndsnbrdr I am interested in incorporating more trail runs into my routine and hopefully will do another 50k to make up for my slow first time run. I totally agree that there is so much long among fellow RD's, volunteers and runners. It was a huge surprise for me on Sunday but it was a really cool experience. Good luck with your training!

[biomaj5]

Mar 20, 2014 0:07:13 GMT -5 blndsnbrdr said:

I say hi-jack your heart out!

Initially I wanted to say go for the trail, it's easier on your body...but then I read the course description. Any chance you can go run the 4 mile loop before making a decision? Having the trail will be nice for the softer surface and change of scenery; however, technical trail on minimal sleep could spell disaster (and great battle scars to brag about, just saying...).

That's the funny thing I've learned about ultras -- to an outsider (anyone who hasn't been in the middle of the chaos, its not a cult! they seem crazy disorganized or chaotic. In reality there is a ton of team work among RDs, volunteers, crew members and even between individual runners. That is what makes the sport so awesome -- all the love. To an extent the runner has a fair amount of individual responsibility (know the rules, run the right direction on loop courses, know the route on complex courses, etc). I guess every runner needs to know all of that but with road races and shorter distances trail markers and elements are easier to contend with.

Training plans are also interesting in the land of ultras -- they really don't exist in the same context as full/half plans do. Your long runs increase in a very similar fashion, but no one has really taken a plan and said "here, this is how you train for an ultra". It's probably just a matter of time before someone capitalizes on it but with such long distances/times people kind of down their own thing - what works for them. In my humble opinion and based upon what I've researched I think your best bet would be training for time-on-feet, not distance. And get at least one night run in so you know what you're up against (nvm, I don't think you run at night with the 12hr).

Doing a 12 hour race is a huge accomplishment! It makes you crazy, the good kind of crazy! And you'll be more prepared for a successful, smiley 24hr race. 

And keep that 100M on the bucket list...I promise to make it sound fun, if I survive!

Oh thank god they changed it. When I looked at the site last week, it had the 12 and 6 hrs starting at 7pm on Friday night. I'd rather not need to train for a night run, because I would not feel safe training in that specific area at night alone (outside of a race environment). I guess when I said it was disorganized, I meant people who run 1 mile of the 12/24hr races, go home and sleep, and then come back for 1 mile (the girl at the LRS told me that people do this). That isn't something I would do (or at least I wouldn't say I'd done the race if I left), but if that's a normal thing, then they can do what they want lol.

I think it will be hard for me to not have a detailed, do-this-and-you-will-thrive-type training plan. I am very much a planner. But I can figure something out. Right now I need to focus on getting back to running regularly-I'm in the midst of a work gym team challenge (1st team to 3000 miles wins), and gym bike miles are easier to get than running miles, but we should win this week and then I can do what I want after a rest day or 3.

My fitness bucket list keeps getting longer and longer: triathlon by 35, Ironman by 40, BQ before I die, marathon in a foreign country, 50K ultra, 50M ultra... 100M ultra...

[blndsnbrdr]

Mar 20, 2014 4:27:49 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Thank you blndsnbrdr I am interested in incorporating more trail runs into my routine and hopefully will do another 50k to make up for my slow first time run. I totally agree that there is so much long among fellow RD's, volunteers and runners. It was a huge surprise for me on Sunday but it was a really cool experience. Good luck with your training!

Your 50K was just this past weekend? Congrats, seriously! How are your legs/body doing after it all?

My first 50K (and only, so far) was slow - the 50M winner finished less than 30 minutes after I finished the 50K - but in my book that means I'm bound to have a PR on my next one! Or, it'll be on a completely different type of course and there will be no comparison - another perk to ultra/trail running!

Did you recap your 50K on here? I think maybe...I need to go check!

ETA -- I'm a total jerk, I definitely read and commented on your 50K recap. Sorry, I suck at remembering SNs.

[blndsnbrdr]

Mar 20, 2014 9:32:37 GMT -5 biomaj5 said:

Oh thank god they changed it. When I looked at the site last week, it had the 12 and 6 hrs starting at 7pm on Friday night. I'd rather not need to train for a night run, because I would not feel safe training in that specific area at night alone (outside of a race environment). I guess when I said it was disorganized, I meant people who run 1 mile of the 12/24hr races, go home and sleep, and then come back for 1 mile (the girl at the LRS told me that people do this). That isn't something I would do (or at least I wouldn't say I'd done the race if I left), but if that's a normal thing, then they can do what they want lol.

I think it will be hard for me to not have a detailed, do-this-and-you-will-thrive-type training plan. I am very much a planner. But I can figure something out. Right now I need to focus on getting back to running regularly-I'm in the midst of a work gym team challenge (1st team to 3000 miles wins), and gym bike miles are easier to get than running miles, but we should win this week and then I can do what I want after a rest day or 3.

My fitness bucket list keeps getting longer and longer: triathlon by 35, Ironman by 40, BQ before I die, marathon in a foreign country, 50K ultra, 50M ultra... 100M ultra...

Yea, night running is interesting...to say the least! But I kind of love it in a weird way.

Oh, yea, I totally get what you mean about the disorganization - it gets a little crazy and all over the place. It actually forced me to chill out about pace/time/distance a little bit which changed the way I look at running. Personally, it helped me a ton. But, that said, going home to sleep seems so weird in a 24hr race. A sleeping bag + tent/pickup? Totally, but not my bed. Maybe I just like suffering tho...

I do have a loose training plan I've been using for reference that I built off of quite a few google searches -- when I get back home and unpack it (moved this past weekend, apt is a disaster) I'll post it. Again, no genius skills on my end but having something to work off of may help!

I'm with you on the bucket list -- 50M, 100M, BQ at some point, 24hr race, 6 day race, 200M Lake Tahoe race...maybe Arrowhead 135M race...