Post by oregonpachey on Jul 12, 2012 12:01:01 GMT -5
I didn't post this on the main board because I am already feeling very vulnerable. I am putting myself way way out there. This is going to be very very long and I apologize.
I need advice on how to approach "the talk" with DH. I am very much struggling right now. My main issue is that he is a SAHD and the expectation of him is to take care of the boys. That's it. I don't ask him to do any cooking or cleaning. I want the boys to be well taken care of and that's it.
As a SAH parent, I would expect him to take the kids to the park or out somewhere twice a week. I am not asking much. Take them to the playground, to the airport to watch the planes take off and land. Heck, even a walk around the block. He doesn't do this. His idea of taking care of the kids is to put the tv on and expect the toddler to play. The baby doesn't get much quality time either.
As a result, I use the weekends to take the boys out and spend quality time with them.
I have expressed my concern to DH and he hasn't changed or made an effort. He is lazy. Pure and simple. I have also asked for DH to make a doctor's appointment because he has testosterone issues and probable sleep apnea which contributes to his mood, laziness and tiredness.
I want to give him a time frame to shape up, call the doctor and make a marked improvement on taking the boys to do stuff. If at the end of the timeframe, this hasn't happened.........
Either the boys go into daycare and he finds a job, or he can choose to leave.
Is that harsh? How can I word this? I want to do it tomorrow when the boys are at my in-laws.
Help please. I am at a crossroads and at this point, I am ready to just throw in the towel and just have him move out.
Post by rubytuesday on Jul 12, 2012 12:09:33 GMT -5
If that's the way you feel than, no, that's not too harsh. I don't think you should overthink how to tell him, just tell him. If I were in your situation I would probably feel the same way.
I have the feeling from some of your posts that this is one of several issues.
And yes, it sounds harsh, but these are your children and they should be well cared for. It also sounds like this is not the first time you've asked this of him.
Have you tried counseling? I think honestly that him staying home may not be for the best.
I don't have advice, really, and I can't say I know how you feel, but DH does the same thing when he's home with DS. I feel bad leaving them alone together, because I know that ultimately he will end up in front of the TV. I've used the word "lazy" as well, which is very hurtful to H, I know.
Would it be possible for you to have this discussion with H, without using words that might be hurtful, because I know that with my H, that makes him shut down and not listen. Would you be able to make a schedule at the beginning of the week for him of things that you'd like him to do with the kids (i.e. Monday, go to the park. Tuesday, the airport, etc.) Then he would know what the expectations are, and it would give him some guidance?
I would feel the same way in your shoes and I would definitely say something. I would want to make sure that my kids were going out for some type of activity every day. You mentioned that he often feels tired; do you think he's struggling with depression? Is he having a hard time adjusting to not working?
TBH I wouldn't mess around with a timeframe to make it happen. I would just tell him, "Hey this isn't working. You are not SAHD material. You need to find a job."
If there are other marital issues that need to be addressed, maybe look into counseling.
I don't think you are being particularly harsh. I would not be at all okay with my DH being a SAHD but not engaging with the kids in a meaningful way or exposing them to interesting experiences. I would also expect him to do a decent chunk of, though certainly not all, of the cleaning and household chores. Every SAHP I know does those things. It is not too much to ask. Raising a family is hardwork, and neither parent should get to be lazy, IMO.
As far as how to word it, I think it is reasonable to sit down with your DH and tell him that you are concerned that the boys need to be exposed to more activities. Say that you understand that it was difficult to do much with them when DS2 was a newborn, but now that they are getting older, you think it would be a great time to start doing more. Try to get his buy in and ask him to help brain storm some ideas. If he doesn't seem to be onboard with doing more with the kids, ask him if he wants to reconsider going back to work and putting the kids in day care now that they are older, and come try to come to an agreement over which approach to take. I would avoid saying "do it or else..." at this point, but if a few weeks go buy after the initial conversation and he has neither started doing more with the kids nor looking for work, I would go there.
I really feel for you. This situation is totally unfair to you, and I would be pissed if it were me.
I'd just come out and say it. The sooner the better.
DH was staying at home with DS until this week. Before he was born, DH was so excited to be a SAHD, but he really isn't cut out for it. He did take DS out places, but he gets really frustrated by the end of the day. I think things will be a lot better with DH working and DS in daycare both for DH's sanity and our relationship.
Post by oregonpachey on Jul 12, 2012 12:27:23 GMT -5
To answer some questions:
* Being a SAHD was mostly his idea. I am now wondering if it was so he didn't have to work because he hated his old job.
* I think a lot of his issues are medical. He might be depressed. I think a lot of the problem is that he is overweight, has low testosterone, etc. He needs to do something because a lot of the issues are health related.
* Honestly, this is the only issue in our marriage.
* I will definitely ask him if counseling is a viable option when we talk tomorrow. I have a feeling he won't agree but I certainly will ask him if he's willing.
I would lay down three concrete expectations: 1) No TV/screen time during the day. For anyone. At all. 2) Doctor's appointment booked tomorrow for as soon as possible. 3) Outside playtime every day.
No TV for him or the kids would probably help be a kick in the arse to actually do something. If he can't do those 3 things, it's time to get a job.
Post by dr.girlfriend on Jul 12, 2012 12:34:31 GMT -5
I think I would also want more info about how this came about, and maybe suggest counseling to be able to both express your opinions. I would definitely want to explore potential medical concerns -- sleep apnea, endocrinological stuff like testosterone and thyroid functioning.
Depression, like others said, would also be on my radar, as it can manifest in a lack of initiation and interest in doing things.
I know my DH was very intimidated about leaving the house with DS. I had to force him out, and now he's amazed how much easier it actually is to do things with him than it is to just sit at home and try to entertain him.
I think a confrontational/ultimatum approach would be counterproductive, in the end. But I thnk you can talk about screen time concerns, and limiting the amount of t.v. watching for the toddler.
ETA: Sorry, I was still typing when you posted your additional info.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. It sounds like you think he is depressed. I wonder if being a SAHD was a way to avoid work because his depression made him feel like he couldn't deal with it in some way?
I agree with PP who said try to avoid hurtful words. If he thinks you're insulting him he may not hear your real message. But I do think an ultimatum is appropriate at this point. "You SAH is not working for us so we need to change it ASAP." Work with him to make a plan for how to change it. He may need childcare so he can look for jobs, interview, etc. Hopefully he will follow through.
I am sorry you are having to deal with such a difficult situation. I think it sounds like he decided to be a SAHD to get out of a bad work situation, not because he really wanted to be a SAHD. I think that when you talk to your DH you should be as kind as possible, but also really firm. He needs to seek medical help, kids must start getting out of the house daily, and he needs to chip in with the housework/meal prep. None of that is an unreasonable request. Maybe you could also start by putting the LOs in daycare PT so that your DH has some time to himself to get healthy and start looking for jobs. Then you could transition them to full time if he finds something promising. Good luck.
I am so sorry you are going through this. It sucks to have to tell your husband he isn't cutting it. What is he doing all day, if he isn't cleaning or cooking and he is letting the kids watch tv? It sounds like he is viewing staying at home as a break and not a new job.
My husband did not adjust well to fatherhood and we have been in counseling. It really has been good for us to talk about my disappointments. I hope your husband is open-minded to the idea of seeing someone.
If this is the only issue in the marriage, I would not toss out hat he can just leave. Just tell him that the current arrangement is not working. What does he think about it? Start a conversation. Sure he hated his last job, but is he ready to start looking for something better? It might take a while, but if he recognizes that SAHD is not for him, it's time to get moving.
I like Token's 3 expectations with some slight edits: 1) No TV/screen time during the day. For anyone. At all. (I'd say except at naptime). 2) Doctor's appointment booked tomorrow for as soon as possible. 3) Outside playtime every day. (I would make this an activity every day - because playing at the mall playground or chick-fil-a, or even a craft or building forts inside should count as long as they are doing something)
If things do improve, I'd add: 4) Do something for the house every day - clean something, put away laundry, run an errand to home depot or target, buy groceries. One small thing a day.
But I think #2 is the most important - he just sounds like he needs help.
Oh, and I know a LOT of SAHMs who are not great housekeepers, so I wouldn't hold that against him too much if he was actually doing stuff with the boys. The good news is that if you're out doing stuff the house doesn't get quite as messy.
I would lay down three concrete expectations: 1) No TV/screen time during the day. For anyone. At all. 2) Doctor's appointment booked tomorrow for as soon as possible. 3) Outside playtime every day.
No TV for him or the kids would probably help be a kick in the arse to actually do something. If he can't do those 3 things, it's time to get a job.
I think this runs the risk of making the OP the bad guy. She's not her DH's mom, she shouldn't have to say "no TV!" or put him in the inevitable position of watching it anyway and just sneaking it around her.
OP, I'd call a local daycare you think looks good and ask them if they have handouts on the structure of their day or information on the various activities they do. At our daycare, they have this to give parents touring the facility. Sit your DH down and say "this is the educational and socialization activities that our kids would get if they went to school. Here at home they are just sitting in front of the TV. This can't continue, because our kids are the ones who are going to suffer. You and I need to work together to change how things go in this house, or else we need to put the kids in daycare and you will go back into FT employment".
Tell him too that you know he's a good dad and that you suspect he has medical issues at play, because otherwise you know he'd never be ok with the status quo. I don't think it's harsh to let him know that this is a potential dealbreaker, but I wouldn't throw around the word divorce yet.
Either the boys go into daycare and he finds a job, or he can choose to leave.
I am not sure why this is part of the discussion if everything else is okay in your marriage. No need to make an already difficult conversation worse by throwing out an option you are not really considering. The options are he gets a job or he actually works on his role as a SAHD.
You definitely don't need to lay it out as a three point ultimatum, but those are the 3 (or 4 if you want to add "and chip in around here on the housework") things I'd be after. I definitely watched some TV or was online during naps, so that doesn't count in my mind, and if you want you can leave an exception for one or two 20 min shows to take a shower and make lunch... but every show makes it really tempting to leave one more on.
And yes, the doctor appointment should probably be #1. And if you suspect depression, offer to go along. When I was struggling, it helped to have DH beside me to articulate what was going on. It was really hard to go to that appointment.
Post by amberatkins on Jul 12, 2012 14:07:08 GMT -5
What has he said when you've expressed your concern? Has he agreed to do more and then not followed through? Or is he not concerned about the issue?
Maybe sit down with him and help plan a schedule of activities for the week? I'm a SAHM and it really helps me to have a plan and know what I'm doing to get out and/or entertain the kids. Sometimes when I'm sitting here surrounded by chaos at breakfast trying to come up with something fun is overwhelming. Especially for someone who is tired and depressed.
Post by hannamarin on Jul 12, 2012 14:42:02 GMT -5
Have you mentioned thisbefore? I think you meed to have a conversation not an accusation. Dont say "you need to do xyz" but say "dont you think it would be better for the kids and make your day go by faster if you went out?" For me, we go out every day rine or shine or I would kill myself.
Oh, I also want to add that I disagree with Token's suggestion that you make a rule that there is no tv during the day for anyone. If an SO said that to a woman, we would be all down her partner's throat about being controlling. If you and your husband agree on that together, that's a different story.
I'm going to be a SAHM and I would fully expect my DH to be upset if I just plopped DD in front of the tv all day instead of doing things with her. It might upset me but he'd be completely justified in his anger.
It is one thing to stay home and actively care for and engage your children. It is another to basically take a lifelong vacation.
Post by cookiemdough on Jul 12, 2012 15:46:18 GMT -5
In addition, once you address the health issue, I would probably sit down together to make a schedule if it seems that he is just at a loss for what to do.
Research local child activities Maybe get a membership at the local acquarium or zoo See if there is afternoon storytime at your local library Print out links to websites that have crafts or suggestions for activities to do at home. See if the local craft store has a weekly art class
Maybe just suggesting he get out the house is not enough detail for him.