Broaching the topic of religion? *UPDATE*

[toratoratori]

My in-laws are in town this weekend. Since this is likely the only time I will see both of them until after the baby is born, I was thinking about talking to them about our plans for her religious upbringing.

Background: I'm Jewish. My in-laws are Evangelical Christians. My husband is lapsed. (He subscribes to the Holy Book of Captain Kirk.) We agreed before we got married that our kids would be raised Jewish. I told Dan that he didn't have to convert, but I expected him to be involved, attend services, and generally set a good example for our kids.

Dan and I were recently chatting about comfort levels with each other's parents. He mentioned that he would be comfortable with his parents talking to our kids about religion and taking the kids to church with them. This is something I'm most definitely NOT comfortable with. I don't know them well enough to know how they'd handle a situation where they need to be intentional in talking about what they practice vs. what their grandchild will be practicing, and I'm also concerned with them sharing tenets of their faith with our kids that are in direct conflict with the tenets of Judaism.

They both tend to talk to Dan about stuff concerning our family rather than to me. I'd like to start setting boundaries and expectations early on regarding this topic, and want to be clear that while we don't expect them to change what they believe, there are going to be some limitations in the things they can say and do with our children that don't apply to their other grandchildren (who are being raised in the Christian faith). I also want to encourage them to come to me directly if they have questions regarding religion, since Dan is (for obvious reasons) not as well-versed in Jewish traditions.

Is there a good way to bring this topic up without offending them? (Not that they're easily offended, but I don't want to get anywhere close to that point.) I don't even know where to begin.

*UPDATE* The topic actually came up organically when we were out to dinner on Saturday night. We started talking about them being in town for the birth, which then led to talk about the baby naming ceremony, which then led to talk about church and the one time I had attended (for my nephew's dedication). FIL mentioned that he appreciated that I was able to be there, and I said I would have liked to stay for the whole thing, but the sermon following the dedication really upset me and I no longer felt comfortable. Both my FIL and MIL were super sweet about it, and my MIL actually said that she was sorry it was hurtful for me. I told her I appreciated it, and expressed my concern that I understand that everyone believes something different, but with so many LGBT friends and family members, I don't want my child growing up in an environment where she thinks any off those people are "less than." (MIL and I had actually had a separate conversation earlier in the day about people and their inherent value, and this seemed to strike a chord with her.)

I realize that this is going to be an ongoing conversation and learning process for all of us, but I'm really glad to know, after this weekend, that we can at least discuss these things openly and civilly. It makes me feel infinitely better about being a part of this family and having them in the baby's life.

[Deleted]

I don't know them so don't know if they're the type to purposefully try to evangelize but being clear from an early start that you are raising your child to be Jewish. However, it is a conversation that needs to happen and earlier makes it easier for them to get adjusted to the idea.

Eta as I hit send too soon

[shevacc]

I think at this point I would only bring up the fact that you plan to raise your child(ren) Jewish. I wouldn't worry about any of the details until they come up. The first few years of your daughter's life will give you plenty of opportunity to work through specific situations you'd like to address without DD understanding enough to affect her. I think I would be more concerned with expressing my feelings about more secular Christian holidays like Christmas presents, Easter celebrations (egg hunts, Easter baskets, not just church services). Especially since your ILs aren't your next-door neighbors, I suspect it might be awhile before your DD is there with them by herself on a Sunday morning.

[jennlin]

Since you don't see them often, will it be relevant if they do talk about it? I think it's important to learn other view points, and if your kids decide to ask you why her grandparents think differently, I think it's a great lesson on diversity and tolerance.

My inlaws are not "very Christian", but they do bring it up on occasion. They have bought her religious coloring books, but only bc it was the one on sale, so I'm not tooooo worried. Hoping to avoid the topic completely.

[toratoratori]

Apr 17, 2014 12:10:47 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Unless you plan on them never talking to or spending alone time with your child, I don't know that you can necessarily stop them from talking to your child about religion or their beliefs.

Is this a conversation, you believe, needs to have boundaries set right now? I'm all for covering bases and preparing the way, but is this really going to be an issue where they're going to evangelize to your child?

I don't think they would do it purposefully, but I also don't know that they (especially my MIL) put much thought into how they discuss religion, since they don't often do it with people outside their faith. I've certainly had moments in my relationship with them where I've felt incredibly uncomfortable, one of which was at my SIL's church for my nephew's dedication, which was immediately followed by a sermon preaching sinfulness of the LGBT community. That's the kind of stuff I'm worried about my child being exposed to.

[jennlin]

Apr 17, 2014 13:41:52 GMT -5 toratoratori said:

Apr 17, 2014 12:10:47 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Unless you plan on them never talking to or spending alone time with your child, I don't know that you can necessarily stop them from talking to your child about religion or their beliefs.

Is this a conversation, you believe, needs to have boundaries set right now? I'm all for covering bases and preparing the way, but is this really going to be an issue where they're going to evangelize to your child?

I don't think they would do it purposefully, but I also don't know that they (especially my MIL) put much thought into how they discuss religion, since they don't often do it with people outside their faith. I've certainly had moments in my relationship with them where I've felt incredibly uncomfortable, one of which was at my SIL's church for my nephew's dedication, which was immediately followed by a sermon preaching sinfulness of the LGBT community. That's the kind of stuff I'm worried about my child being exposed to.

yikes.

i went to a dedication for my friend's son..and after the....ceremony (?), they announced they would continue with their regular mass...several people got up to leave, so we did too. is this an option? i don't imagine your inlaws would be taking your kids to these events without you..and like shevacc had mentioned-- just make they don't spend sunday mornings with grandparents without you.

[shevacc]

Apr 17, 2014 13:41:52 GMT -5 toratoratori said:

Apr 17, 2014 12:10:47 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Unless you plan on them never talking to or spending alone time with your child, I don't know that you can necessarily stop them from talking to your child about religion or their beliefs.

Is this a conversation, you believe, needs to have boundaries set right now? I'm all for covering bases and preparing the way, but is this really going to be an issue where they're going to evangelize to your child?

I don't think they would do it purposefully, but I also don't know that they (especially my MIL) put much thought into how they discuss religion, since they don't often do it with people outside their faith. I've certainly had moments in my relationship with them where I've felt incredibly uncomfortable, one of which was at my SIL's church for my nephew's dedication, which was immediately followed by a sermon preaching sinfulness of the LGBT community. That's the kind of stuff I'm worried about my child being exposed to.

I feel like that's the perfect opportunity for an impromptu discussion on tolerance and what "our family" believes. There will be lots of different viewpoints out there and sometimes having a reason to discuss what you believe can be helpful.

[toratoratori]

Apr 17, 2014 13:21:48 GMT -5 shevacc said:

I think at this point I would only bring up the fact that you plan to raise your child(ren) Jewish. I wouldn't worry about any of the details until they come up. The first few years of your daughter's life will give you plenty of opportunity to work through specific situations you'd like to address without DD understanding enough to affect her. I think I would be more concerned with expressing my feelings about more secular Christian holidays like Christmas presents, Easter celebrations (egg hunts, Easter baskets, not just church services). Especially since your ILs aren't your next-door neighbors, I suspect it might be awhile before your DD is there with them by herself on a Sunday morning.

This is a really good point. I actually asked Dan the other day if it would be weird to ask his parents to send Christmas presents during Chanukah instead, since that's what we'll actually be celebrating. But that seems greedy to me, like, "We know you don't have to buy us these presents, but since you're going to, send them earlier."

Also, as far as Easter, is BR going to feel left out because her cousins get baskets and toys and she just gets matzah and gefilte fish for Passover? Or will she even know the difference since they're so far away (and my parents will probably shower her with all kinds of Jewy toys anyway). It's hard to know. I'm probably worrying too far ahead.

[toratoratori]

Apr 17, 2014 13:49:27 GMT -5 jennlin said:

Apr 17, 2014 13:41:52 GMT -5 toratoratori said:

I don't think they would do it purposefully, but I also don't know that they (especially my MIL) put much thought into how they discuss religion, since they don't often do it with people outside their faith. I've certainly had moments in my relationship with them where I've felt incredibly uncomfortable, one of which was at my SIL's church for my nephew's dedication, which was immediately followed by a sermon preaching sinfulness of the LGBT community. That's the kind of stuff I'm worried about my child being exposed to.

yikes.

i went to a dedication for my friend's son..and after the....ceremony (?), they announced they would continue with their regular mass...several people got up to leave, so we did too. is this an option? i don't imagine your inlaws would be taking your kids to these events without you..and like shevacc had mentioned-- just make they don't spend sunday mornings with grandparents without you.

Yeah ... I was planning to stay for the whole service since we were going out to lunch as a family afterwards, but mid-way through the sermon, I just looked at my MIL and was like, "I need to leave. I will meet you at the restaurant." I probably should have done a better job explaining why I was leaving, but I'm not sure if it would have registered anyway.

Maybe, if we do end up discussing it this weekend, that can be an example I use of the concerns I have. Like, "I want you guys to have unlimited access, but this kind of thing can't happen."

[shevacc]

Oh! And you can explain to them cool holidays like Purim. I miss living near some good friends who threw a Purim party every year (they live in the Boston area).

[toratoratori]

Apr 17, 2014 13:55:56 GMT -5 shevacc said:

Oh! And you can explain to them cool holidays like Purim. I miss living near some good friends who threw a Purim party every year (they live in the Boston area).

PURIM IS THE BEST. Maybe we'll have a big Purim GTG next year and you guys can all come! Hamentaschen for everybody!

[mrslefty]

I have nothing to add because pp have given great advice but I have similar worries only neither of us are religious, in fact we're both atheist. MIL is "strict" Catholic in that she wants us and the baby to be. She has already thrown a fit about it and said she would just take the baby one day and get it baptized. Or whatever Catholics do.

And she wonders why I don't like her.

[toratoratori]

Apr 17, 2014 14:52:44 GMT -5 mrslefty said:

I have nothing to add because pp have given great advice but I have similar worries only neither of us are religious, in fact we're both atheist. MIL is "strict" Catholic in that she wants us and the baby to be. She has already thrown a fit about it and said she would just take the baby one day and get it baptized. Or whatever Catholics do.

And she wonders why I don't like her.

Ughhh, that's the worst

I'm lucky in that my in-laws are respectful of boundaries once they've been established. It's figuring out how to set them without offending them or keeping them from BR that's keeping me up at night.

[shevacc]

Apr 17, 2014 14:52:44 GMT -5 mrslefty said:

I have nothing to add because pp have given great advice but I have similar worries only neither of us are religious, in fact we're both atheist. MIL is "strict" Catholic in that she wants us and the baby to be. She has already thrown a fit about it and said she would just take the baby one day and get it baptized. Or whatever Catholics do.

And she wonders why I don't like her.

I'm sorry she's making things difficult for you. I'm (strict?) Catholic -- I go to church most Sundays and plan to raise my children Catholic. At every baptism I've ever been to, the parents have to present their child for baptism and promise to "raise their child in the practice of the faith." Obviously you have no intention of doing that so I don't see why you should be forced into baptizing your baby. I don't think she can steal your baby away for a drive-by baptism? And even if she did, while that would be seriously disrespectful, I don't think it would mean anything since she can't fulfill the baptismal vows to raise your child(ren) as Catholic.

[mrslefty]

Apr 17, 2014 15:14:48 GMT -5 shevacc said:

Apr 17, 2014 14:52:44 GMT -5 mrslefty said:

I have nothing to add because pp have given great advice but I have similar worries only neither of us are religious, in fact we're both atheist. MIL is "strict" Catholic in that she wants us and the baby to be. She has already thrown a fit about it and said she would just take the baby one day and get it baptized. Or whatever Catholics do.

And she wonders why I don't like her.

I'm sorry she's making things difficult for you. I'm (strict?) Catholic -- I go to church most Sundays and plan to raise my children Catholic. At every baptism I've ever been to, the parents have to present their child for baptism and promise to "raise their child in the practice of the faith." Obviously you have no intention of doing that so I don't see why you should be forced into baptizing your baby. I don't think she can steal your baby away for a drive-by baptism? And even if she did, while that would be seriously disrespectful, I don't think it would mean anything since she can't fulfill the baptismal vows to raise your child(ren) as Catholic.

Yeah I'm not worried about her doing it or really the act itself more the lack of boundaries and respect.  I don't mind if my kid(s) go to church. I actually did a lot with grandparents and my friends,  I think it was good for me, but the respect of our choices.  She actually never goes to church.  Her mom is actually the strict Catholic and she is a delight.  MIL just acts it to impress grandma.  

[mrslefty]

toratoratori if it makes you feel better I went to lots of different churches with both sets of grandparents (a Mormon and episcopal church) and with friends (mega church) and my parents always just explained that's what they believe. Luckily none of the churches I went to talked about gays, I think they would have said something about being nice to everyone.

[georgeharrison]

Apr 17, 2014 14:52:44 GMT -5 mrslefty said:

I have nothing to add because pp have given great advice but I have similar worries only neither of us are religious, in fact we're both atheist. MIL is "strict" Catholic in that she wants us and the baby to be. She has already thrown a fit about it and said she would just take the baby one day and get it baptized. Or whatever Catholics do.

And she wonders why I don't like her.

WHAWT!?  This is crazy.

[georgeharrison]

We are pretty "religious," but some of our family isn't. We have always raised Tman that what they believe is up to them. And when he gets old enough, he gets to figure out what he believes. So far, that has been enough. We haven't had to undo anything that other family has said/done. And really, them just knowing how important our beliefs are to us has kept a lot of their beliefs under wraps. It pretty much never comes up. So, try not to worry about it so much, is what I say. If you make it known you plan to raise your children Jewish, then just confront any deviations from that by your ILs as they occur.

[jennlin]

just saw the update-- that's great that you were able to have an open discussion about it. hopefully it won't be too difficult moving forward.

[shevacc]

Good update! That's a great way to start a dialogue about a topic that's likely to come up a lot more as your daughter grows up.