Child psychopaths- this is scaring as fuck to me

[ceejay]

May 15, 2012 10:34:09 GMT -5 KateAggie said:

I know a child like this, and she scares the shit out of me. She got in trouble the first week of kindergarten for drawing a picture of her beating another kid. She put it in the other kids' cubby. She also laughed when she trapped M between a motorized kid car and the wall of a house. M had fallen to the ground, and she tried to pin her with the car. M was screaming bloody murder and she sat there revving the car up, smiling and giggling. She did little cruel things during our entire visit (example: taking toys only once she saw that M was enjoying them--and she didn't take them to play, she instead would tell M "we're not playing with that anymore," and then sit there and smile when M would cry.)

Her parents think she's just mischievous and spirited. I'd literally be afraid to spend the night in the same house with the kid. My mom feels the same way. This kid is family--and was a much wanted and unexpected surprise. I seriously hate feeling this way about a child. But she is truly frightening. She's also smart and pretty, and I'm scared what that combo will allow her to do, and she will do something. I have no doubt.

The good thing is that in kindergarten the school staff should force the parents to at least consider the possibility of a problem.

Has the school said anything? How do you avoid being around her?

[ceejay]

May 15, 2012 10:04:00 GMT -5 ttt said:

This is horrifying. I don't know which scares me more - the thought of my child being alone with a child like this, or the thought of my child *being* like this.

Definitely being the parent. Particularly if you loved and doted on this child from the womb. What an awful feeling to not be able to get that child to connect with you and to see them turn into someone people are afraid of. How heartbreaking.

[KateAggie]

May 15, 2012 10:46:16 GMT -5 ceejay said:

May 15, 2012 10:34:09 GMT -5 KateAggie said:

I know a child like this, and she scares the shit out of me. She got in trouble the first week of kindergarten for drawing a picture of her beating another kid. She put it in the other kids' cubby. She also laughed when she trapped M between a motorized kid car and the wall of a house. M had fallen to the ground, and she tried to pin her with the car. M was screaming bloody murder and she sat there revving the car up, smiling and giggling. She did little cruel things during our entire visit (example: taking toys only once she saw that M was enjoying them--and she didn't take them to play, she instead would tell M "we're not playing with that anymore," and then sit there and smile when M would cry.)

Her parents think she's just mischievous and spirited. I'd literally be afraid to spend the night in the same house with the kid. My mom feels the same way. This kid is family--and was a much wanted and unexpected surprise. I seriously hate feeling this way about a child. But she is truly frightening. She's also smart and pretty, and I'm scared what that combo will allow her to do, and she will do something. I have no doubt.

The good thing is that in kindergarten the school staff should force the parents to at least consider the possibility of a problem.

Has the school said anything? How do you avoid being around her?

We moved out of state. Not to avoid her, but it's a bonus.

As far as them realizing it's an issue...they LAUGHED about the school incident. Put it on FB like it was a cute story. She runs that household. They put an extra bed in their room because at 5, she was still waking up multiple times a night (her Mom was surprised we didn't have the same issue). They laughed off the other stuff by saying that she's not used to having kids over (they are older parents, so their friends have older kids.)

[debatethis]

This article is my SIL in a nutshell and she is SCARY. I've mentioned her a few times but she was adopted from "intensive therapy" foster care at age 12 after being in group homes and foster homes since age 6. She never was officially dx'ed with Reactive Attachment Disorder but she might as well be the poster child for it. She very calmly told my MIL once that MIL should never go to sleep while SIL was in the house bc SIL would like to kill her in her sleep for being "too strict". She's 21 now and has completely fits the symptoms of a psychopath - lack of attachment/emotion/empathy (or she fakes it) + the rage/violent fits and everything else. I am really glad she lives 800 miles away bc she frankly scares me and I want nothing to do with her.

[jupiter2328]

May 15, 2012 10:04:00 GMT -5 ttt said:

This is horrifying. I don't know which scares me more - the thought of my child being alone with a child like this, or the thought of my child *being* like this.

Both are utterly horrifying. Reading those stories in the OP is going to give me nightmares.

[One Girl In All The World]

May 15, 2012 11:04:11 GMT -5 jupiter2328 said:

May 15, 2012 10:04:00 GMT -5 ttt said:

This is horrifying. I don't know which scares me more - the thought of my child being alone with a child like this, or the thought of my child *being* like this.

Both are utterly horrifying. Reading those stories in the OP is going to give me nightmares.

Yea
The whole time I was reading this I went back and forth imagining both sides and it's just a sickening thought.

Sent from my DROIDX using ProBoards

[debatethis]

May 15, 2012 11:06:04 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

May 15, 2012 11:02:58 GMT -5 debatethis said:

This article is my SIL in a nutshell and she is SCARY. I've mentioned her a few times but she was adopted from "intensive therapy" foster care at age 12 after being in group homes and foster homes since age 6. She never was officially dx'ed with Reactive Attachment Disorder but she might as well be the poster child for it. She very calmly told my MIL once that MIL should never go to sleep while SIL was in the house bc SIL would like to kill her in her sleep for being "too strict". She's 21 now and has completely fits the symptoms of a psychopath - lack of attachment/emotion/empathy (or she fakes it) + the rage/violent fits and everything else. I am really glad she lives 800 miles away bc she frankly scares me and I want nothing to do with her.

i hope she never has kids. flameful as that sound.

She unfortunately has an 18-month-old. Our concern for him is the only thing that has kept us from completely severing ties with her.

[mcgee]

I'm still reading comments on the NYT article. Lots of empathy for the other kids in the household, a lot of debate over what to do, and a handful of people who suggested that Michael was possessed by a demon and needs an exorcism.

[ceejay]

May 15, 2012 10:56:28 GMT -5 KateAggie said:

May 15, 2012 10:46:16 GMT -5 ceejay said:

The good thing is that in kindergarten the school staff should force the parents to at least consider the possibility of a problem.

Has the school said anything? How do you avoid being around her?

We moved out of state. Not to avoid her, but it's a bonus.

As far as them realizing it's an issue...they LAUGHED about the school incident. Put it on FB like it was a cute story. She runs that household. They put an extra bed in their room because at 5, she was still waking up multiple times a night (her Mom was surprised we didn't have the same issue). They laughed off the other stuff by saying that she's not used to having kids over (they are older parents, so their friends have older kids.)

Now that you mention it, I wonder how much sleep issues, deprivation, etc. have to do with childhood mental illness. I should look that up somewhere. I'm sure the inability to sleep must make symptoms so much worse.

[ceejay]

May 15, 2012 11:12:10 GMT -5 debatethis said:

May 15, 2012 11:06:04 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

i hope she never has kids. flameful as that sound.

She unfortunately has an 18-month-old. Our concern for him is the only thing that has kept us from completely severing ties with her.

Oh no! Not good.

[noonecareswhoiam]

Sleep architecture plays an important role in Axis 1 disorders--especially depression, bipolar disorder and anxiety. I'm not as well versed on its role in personality disorders, which are less well understood (and for which there are no real treatments, other than those used to address some symptoms).

There's a huge difference between psychopaths (which isn't really a medical term any more) and patients with schizophrenia. Psychopaths experience no delusions or hallucinations, while patients with schizophrenia do (in addition to experiencing other symptoms, such as flat affect).

[fernane]

I encourage everyone to see the documentary Beth Child of Rage. It's a great look into the possible outcomes of unmet needs in the first few months of life, when conscience is formed.
Like op, I had a child with reactive attachment disorder on my caseload. I had him because his attorney was hellbent on keeping him and his sister together, even though they couldn't even live together for more than a few weeks bc he would begin seriously beating her, etc. I was an adoption caseworker, but there is no way this kid will be adopted, as horrible as that is to say. I tried everything for 2.5 years, but he was so out of control from the age of 4 on (I got him when he was 9) that he will need a mental facility for the rest of his life. After a long battle I finally got the judge to approve the separation from his sister so she could finally be adopted instead of languishing in the foster care system. She also had significant behavioral issues but was placed in an adoptive home that specializes in reactive attachment disorder and drug exposed children.
I have never met a child that was like this without reason, though. I know there are private people who specialize in working with these children but I'm sure it costs an arm and a leg.
We have had parents relinquish their children to state custody to get the help their children needed.

[Le Olive]

I can sympathize with the teachers in this thread. I have a few stories that are eerily similar to these.

I think this is why the movie The Bad Seed scares me so much. "I have the prettiest mother, the nicest mother, everybody thinks so..."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgpZ5-yDzhk&feature=related

[Deleted]

I saw the NYT article on my Facebook feed over the weekend and purposely skipped it. This topic is absolutely terrifying. It just is.

I'm kind of morbid, I'll admit it, and on more than one occasion, I've looked at my son over the past year and wondered, "What the hell will I do if he grows up to be a f*cked up individual?" I mean, even Ted Bundy was a cute baby once upon a time, right?

Just what do you do as a parent to keep it from happening to you? Is loving them and giving them stability always enough? I don't know...

[loislane23]

Does anyone know if Child of Rage is on Netflix?

[Le Olive]

I found Child of Rage on youtube:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2-Re_Fl_L4

[meshaliuknits]

Oh, chile, my heart breaks for you. What an impossible situation for you and your family. And people need to shut their damn fool mouths.

[whitewolf]

May 15, 2012 12:08:16 GMT -5 chilerellanos said:

The concern for my other kids is huge. My daughter has made my son (he's 13, two years older) her main target o abuse. We don't tolerate it obviously, buy its also impossible to contain. He is currently in inpatient psych right now, to be dismissed either tomorrow or today. Why is he in there? Because he had so much anxiety over his sister and became so depressed that he became suicidal.

I can't leave my kids home alone (13, 11, and 6.....so ages I should be able to start being able to do this). Very few people can handle them to watch them if my husband and I aren't home. People don't understand how stressful EVERY DAY is in our house, but trust me, everybody has a solution for us. We should spank her, be more consistent with discipline, have we read so and so book, make her do more chores, reward charts, etc. I want to tell each and every person with advice like that to go fuck themselves. If you want to help me, actually help me. Support me, help watch them after school when she is falling apart and running off or beating the crap out of me. Don't tell me she's this way because I'm a shitty parent.

oh man. I am so sorry. Sending strength and healing vibes for your family.
May I ask if she has a diagnosis?

[ceejay]

May 15, 2012 12:08:16 GMT -5 chilerellanos said:

The concern for my other kids is huge. My daughter has made my son (he's 13, two years older) her main target o abuse. We don't tolerate it obviously, buy its also impossible to contain. He is currently in inpatient psych right now, to be dismissed either tomorrow or today. Why is he in there? Because he had so much anxiety over his sister and became so depressed that he became suicidal.

I can't leave my kids home alone (13, 11, and 6.....so ages I should be able to start being able to do this). Very few people can handle them to watch them if my husband and I aren't home. People don't understand how stressful EVERY DAY is in our house, but trust me, everybody has a solution for us. We should spank her, be more consistent with discipline, have we read so and so book, make her do more chores, reward charts, etc. I want to tell each and every person with advice like that to go fuck themselves. If you want to help me, actually help me. Support me, help watch them after school when she is falling apart and running off or beating the crap out of me. Don't tell me she's this way because I'm a shitty parent.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for you to deal with other people's reactions.

As a social worker I really only dealt with cases where the parents were in complete denial so it's helpful to hear from people going through this and what they actually need.

I remember watching the doc on Jani and thinking her parents have been basically caring for her around the clock for 7 years with basically no other help. They can't get a sitter, no one helps.

I know I would feel so ill-equipped to help. I really do hope you find the support you all need.

[KateAggie]

Chile, I have a friend whose oldest child has similar issues (she also has children). I am amazed that she's (my friend, not her kid) even half-functioning, and I can't even fully grasp what their day to day life is like. Hugs and prayers to you.

[caden]

This is scary as fuck to me too.

[bqbride]

DH's brother is a total psychopath. He is a master of manipulation and of convincing people that he's this really great guy, but he leaves a trail of abuse and destruction everywhere he goes. Unfortunately, his youngest son (10 y/o) is the same. From a very young age, he abused animals, was violent and hateful to others, draws pictures of mass murder scenes, etc., etc.

It is heartbreaking and terrifying, because there is no evidence that therapy or drugs works. It's just they way they are. I cannot imagine being the parent of a psychopathic child, wanting so desperately to help your child and no help being available.

For anyone interested in learning more on the topic, I highly recommend the book "The Sociopath Next Door." It really helped me understand and come to terms with what my BIL and my nephew are. Unfortunately, the only advice for dealing with people like this is to stay the hell away from them.

[caden]

May 15, 2012 13:29:24 GMT -5 @bqbride said:

DH's brother is a total psychopath. He is a master of manipulation and of convincing people that he's this really great guy, but he leaves a trail of abuse and destruction everywhere he goes. Unfortunately, his youngest son (10 y/o) is the same. From a very young age, he abused animals, was violent and hateful to others, draws pictures of mass murder scenes, etc., etc.

Do you have to go to family functions with them or are you able to steer clear? I'm scared for you, I can't imagine what it's like to be around that.

[ttt]

May 15, 2012 10:50:48 GMT -5 ceejay said:

May 15, 2012 10:04:00 GMT -5 ttt said:

This is horrifying. I don't know which scares me more - the thought of my child being alone with a child like this, or the thought of my child *being* like this.

Definitely being the parent. Particularly if you loved and doted on this child from the womb. What an awful feeling to not be able to get that child to connect with you and to see them turn into someone people are afraid of. How heartbreaking.

That's what I thought until I read the story about the kid pushing the 3 year old into a pool and pulling up a chair to laugh and watch as he drowned.

I have no idea what the answer is, but it is truly terrifying and horrible. My heart breaks for the parents and siblings.

[5thofjuly]

I think the worst part for a good parent would be trying to figure out WHY your child is this way. And, like chille said, everyone thinks they have "the answer." But, sometimes the genetic lottery just sucks.

[bqbride]

May 15, 2012 13:36:04 GMT -5 caden said:

May 15, 2012 13:29:24 GMT -5 @bqbride said:

DH's brother is a total psychopath. He is a master of manipulation and of convincing people that he's this really great guy, but he leaves a trail of abuse and destruction everywhere he goes. Unfortunately, his youngest son (10 y/o) is the same. From a very young age, he abused animals, was violent and hateful to others, draws pictures of mass murder scenes, etc., etc.

Do you have to go to family functions with them or are you able to steer clear? I'm scared for you, I can't imagine what it's like to be around that.

Thankfully, we don't live near them. BIL is not welcome in our home, and everyone knows it. SIL (they are divorced) visits occasionally with the kids, and our nephew isn't allowed unsupervised in our home for one.single.second. We tried for years to get SIL to get our nephew into counseling, but she kept saying he was fine. Until he threatened to bring a gun to school and kill his classmates. Now he's in counseling, and we do see moderate improvements in his behavior, but this is not something that counseling can reverse, unfortunately.

[ceejay]

May 15, 2012 13:29:24 GMT -5 @bqbride said:

DH's brother is a total psychopath. He is a master of manipulation and of convincing people that he's this really great guy, but he leaves a trail of abuse and destruction everywhere he goes. Unfortunately, his youngest son (10 y/o) is the same. From a very young age, he abused animals, was violent and hateful to others, draws pictures of mass murder scenes, etc., etc.

It is heartbreaking and terrifying, because there is no evidence that therapy or drugs works. It's just they way they are. I cannot imagine being the parent of a psychopathic child, wanting so desperately to help your child and no help being available.

For anyone interested in learning more on the topic, I highly recommend the book "The Sociopath Next Door." It really helped me understand and come to terms with what my BIL and my nephew are. Unfortunately, the only advice for dealing with people like this is to stay the hell away from them.

I want to read that book, but I'm afraid to. I read a book 10 years ago that was written by a sociopath and I haven't really been ok since.

[whitewolf]

May 15, 2012 13:11:16 GMT -5 chilerellanos said:

Mesh- she has Bipolar and ODD. Its a pretty sweet combo. My son does have aspergers. But he's the sweetest, most sensitive boy ever. When he has melt downs it's because he's feeling overwhelmed, not because he's trying to control and manipulate you.

Also, apparently I'm a genetic powerhouse!

Their father (my ex husband) has severe undiagnosed mental health issues. My daughter has never seen him and I left him when my son was about 14 months.

oh, dear-- and you're dealing with this on your own? I wish you well.