Do you think it is fair to compare the issues that

[Jalapeñomel]

African Americans went through for their civil rights to the issues that gay people are facing in today's society?  

[sharknado]

I think following slavery, yes.
But nothing compares to slavery

[berbles]

May 12, 2014 16:11:41 GMT -5 sharknado said:

I think following slavery, yes.
But nothing compares to slavery

Perfectly said.

[Deleted]

No. Even excluding slavery, they have not been denied the things that black people were denied for decades, nor is the source of their difference from others immediately identifiable at a glance.

[Jalapeñomel]

May 12, 2014 16:12:40 GMT -5 pagas said:

That is a broad statement, I think there are a lot of circumstances where a fair comparison can be made.

My former roommate's husband was the victim of a gay hate crime. He was driving, dragged from his car, attacked and beaten by a group of people. He is a openly gay police officer. I can see where comparisons can be made involving actions like this.

How sad.

[Deleted]

Yes, I think it is fair to compare them.

But if you do that comparison, you're going to find ways in which they're similar and lots of ways in which they aren't.

Also, I don't know that non-gay non-blacks (like me!) are the best ones to have strong opinions on how they compare.

[sharknado]

May 12, 2014 16:14:45 GMT -5 @stellasmom said:

No. Even excluding slavery, they have not been denied the things that black people were denied for decades, nor is the source of their difference from others immediately identifiable at a glance.

Like?
My dad has been fired once he's been outed.
He can not put his partner on his insurance
We have been spit on
We have been asked to leave restaurants
We have been run out of churches
If something happens to my dad or his partner, I make the medical decisions for fear of backlash if they put each other as power of attorney

[Jermys]

You can hide being gay. You can't hide being black. They're both civil rights issues, but I don't think you can compare the two.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2014 16:18:02 GMT -5 sharknado said:

May 12, 2014 16:14:45 GMT -5 @stellasmom said:

No. Even excluding slavery, they have not been denied the things that black people were denied for decades, nor is the source of their difference from others immediately identifiable at a glance.

Like?
My dad has been fired once he's been outed.
He can not put his partner on his insurance
We have been spit on
We have been asked to leave restaurants
We have been run out of churches
If something happens to my dad or his partner, I make the medical decisions for fear of backlash if they put each other as power of attorney

That is so awful. I'm so sorry. 

[sharknado]

I am also medical power of attorney for another set of gay friends for fear of backlash

[janegold]

I think this will be the defining civil rights movement of our time. So in that way, the two are definitely comparable.

But in general, the civil rights denied to African Americans went far deeper than marriage and benefits.  They obviously go deeper than that for many gay people, too, but nothing can quite fairly equate to the history of slavery and systematic segregation.

I still think it is fair to compare, but I don't think they are completely equivalent.

[Deleted]

Yes, but he doesn't have "gay" tattood on his forehead and isn't shuffled into difference sections of public places, the back of the bus, the gay water fountain,
or the gay school because of it. There are no laws in place saying he is 3/5ths of a person.

It's just very, very different. Being gay is something you can hide at will. Being a certain race is not.

[themoneytree]

Yes I think they an be compared in the sense that both groups are discriminated against and have been/ are considered 'less than' for who they inherently are which is something they cannot change.

I don't think anything comes close to comparing to slavery, but otherwise yes.

[sharknado]

May 12, 2014 16:23:09 GMT -5 @stellasmom said:

Yes, but he doesn't have "gay" tattood on his forehead and isn't shuffled into difference sections of public places, the back of the bus, the gay water fountain,
or the gay school because of it. There are no laws in place saying he is 3/5ths of a person.

It's just very, very different. Being gay is something you can hide at will. Being a certain race is not.

You are so right, the gays should keep that shit to themselves.

[janegold]

May 12, 2014 16:31:10 GMT -5 sharknado said:

May 12, 2014 16:23:09 GMT -5 @stellasmom said:

Yes, but he doesn't have "gay" tattood on his forehead and isn't shuffled into difference sections of public places, the back of the bus, the gay water fountain,
or the gay school because of it. There are no laws in place saying he is 3/5ths of a person.

It's just very, very different. Being gay is something you can hide at will. Being a certain race is not.

You are so right, the gays should keep that shit to themselves.

Oh come on, that is not what she said or implied at all.

[Jermys]

May 12, 2014 16:31:10 GMT -5 sharknado said:

May 12, 2014 16:23:09 GMT -5 @stellasmom said:

Yes, but he doesn't have "gay" tattood on his forehead and isn't shuffled into difference sections of public places, the back of the bus, the gay water fountain,
or the gay school because of it. There are no laws in place saying he is 3/5ths of a person.

It's just very, very different. Being gay is something you can hide at will. Being a certain race is not.

You are so right, the gays should keep that shit to themselves.

You're misreading Stellas.  She's not saying they SHOULD hide it.  She's saying they CAN.  Black people can't hide the color of their skin. 

[sharknado]

May 12, 2014 16:31:50 GMT -5 janegold said:

May 12, 2014 16:31:10 GMT -5 sharknado said:

You are so right, the gays should keep that shit to themselves.

Oh come on, that is not what she said or implied at all.

Discrimination is discrimination, no?

[sugarbear]

One of my students just asked me this question the other day.
I said, in a nutshell, that there's no competition for human suffering, and that I couldn't even begin to conjure a reasonable answer as a straight, white woman.

[sharknado]

May 12, 2014 16:32:51 GMT -5 Jermys said:

May 12, 2014 16:31:10 GMT -5 sharknado said:

You are so right, the gays should keep that shit to themselves.

You're misreading Stellas.  She's not saying they SHOULD hide it.  She's saying they CAN.  Black people can't hide the color of their skin. 

That's not true, there are many people I have met that are black and I wouldn't know that.
And my brother's boyfriend could NEVER hide the fact that he is gay.

[themoneytree]

Whether you CAN live a closeted, hidden life does not change the discrimination and fear. That's there whether they are pretending to be something they are not, or not.

[janegold]

May 12, 2014 16:33:50 GMT -5 sharknado said:

May 12, 2014 16:31:50 GMT -5 janegold said:

Oh come on, that is not what she said or implied at all.

Discrimination is discrimination, no?

I have no idea what you're trying to say in the context of Stella's response.  Of course discrimination of all types is terrible.  Did she say it wasn't?

[sharknado]

May 12, 2014 16:33:58 GMT -5 sugarbear said:

One of my students just asked me this question the other day.
I said, in a nutshell, that there's no competition for human suffering, and that I couldn't even begin to conjure a reasonable answer as a straight, white woman.

What a lovely answer

[Jermys]

May 12, 2014 16:33:50 GMT -5 sharknado said:

May 12, 2014 16:31:50 GMT -5 janegold said:

Oh come on, that is not what she said or implied at all.

Discrimination is discrimination, no?

No.  No it's not.  All discrimination is most certainly not equal.  

[sharknado]

May 12, 2014 16:33:49 GMT -5 mofongo said:

May 12, 2014 16:18:02 GMT -5 sharknado said:

Like?
My dad has been fired once he's been outed.
He can not put his partner on his insurance
We have been spit on
We have been asked to leave restaurants
We have been run out of churches
If something happens to my dad or his partner, I make the medical decisions for fear of backlash if they put each other as power of attorney

Wow, I'm sorry. Where do you live, though? I know my employer allows s/o on our health insurance plan. I also work in a hospital and have seen many gay/lesbian HC POAs, nobody really bats an eye at that. 

Denver, gay marriage is still illegal here.
I would agree with the POAS except my friends on assistance and it tends to be a different world.

[Jermys]

May 12, 2014 16:35:52 GMT -5 sharknado said:

May 12, 2014 16:32:51 GMT -5 Jermys said:

You're misreading Stellas.  She's not saying they SHOULD hide it.  She's saying they CAN.  Black people can't hide the color of their skin. 

That's not true, there are many people I have met that are black and I wouldn't know that.
And my brother's boyfriend could NEVER hide the fact that he is gay.

And I would bet they haven't been subjected to the same level of discrimination as those who can't hide it.  

[Deleted]

May 12, 2014 16:30:24 GMT -5 themoneytree said:

Yes I think they an be compared in the sense that both groups are discriminated against and have been/ are considered 'less than' for who they inherently are which is something they cannot change.

I don't think anything comes close to comparing to slavery, but otherwise yes.

Holocaust, maybe?  Gays didn't fare well there.  Matthew Shepard?  And other gays who have been murdered/tortured/etc. because of their sexual orientation?

That's the problem with trying to make any sense of (or worse, to draw qualitative conclusions from) these comparisons.  

[pinkeggs]

I agree that no, not when it comes to slavery.

But after that, I don't know. I think of Matthew Shepherd and things like that. And while I completely understand what stellas is saying, and this might be a shitty stereotypical thing to say, some people are obviously gay. It's a smaller percentage, but come on.

Likewise, some people do not immediately portray their races. Most do, yes. But not all. I remember when I was in middle school and it was big news that Mariah Carey was actually black. (shitty example, but the first one I thought of.)

Honestly, I don't think we can answer this question yet. I think that homosexuals have a long way to go before they have the same rights as heteros and I hate to think of all that will happen between now and then. As of now, no, I don't think they have gone through the same thing as African Americans.

sharknado, I'm so sorry for your experiences. That is just awful.

[themoneytree]

May 12, 2014 16:36:59 GMT -5 Jermys said:

May 12, 2014 16:33:50 GMT -5 sharknado said:

Discrimination is discrimination, no?

No.  No it's not.  All discrimination is most certainly not equal.  

So are you saying that the discrimination gay people face is not in fact comparable to those black people face?

[iamali]

May 12, 2014 16:32:51 GMT -5 Jermys said:

May 12, 2014 16:31:10 GMT -5 sharknado said:

You are so right, the gays should keep that shit to themselves.

You're misreading Stellas.  She's not saying they SHOULD hide it.  She's saying they CAN.  Black people can't hide the color of their skin. 

I agree with this and you know I adore you sharknado.

No one is saying that gay people haven't been discrimated against. That is, SADLY, clear.

But gay people haven't been bought, traded, or discarded as if they were a piece of cattle. There is no doubt that there are some ASSHOLES in the world who make it a shitty place to grow up gay. For me the huge glaring difference is that there are people who truly thought they owned another human being and could do with them what they may.



I'm also so sad for your father, his partner, and your whole family.

[spitforspat]

I don't think Stellas is trying to dismiss the suffrage of homosexuals in any way, she's just pointing out differences.