I am surprised that . . . (maybe judgy)

[Deleted]

I pumped with DS1 and DS2 and sent them to daycare with BM, although I stopped working when DS2 was 6 mos old.

DS3 I went back to work when he was 6 mos old. I pumped for a while, but then he reversed cycled. I quit pumping at work and just left a can of formula at home. DS3 nursed until he was 2.

[partiallysunny]

May 15, 2012 8:06:33 GMT -5 Willis Jackson said:

May 15, 2012 8:00:51 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

They may BF at home.I know of moms that send formula to daycare but BF at home.

This is a good point.

If my kid went to daycare, this is what I would have had to do.

Hated pumping, mostly because I never produced more than an ounce and I felt like a cow. I would literally moo while hooked up to the pump because it was either laugh or cry.

[satama]

May 15, 2012 8:14:28 GMT -5 Willis Jackson said:

May 15, 2012 8:09:14 GMT -5 @msstarry said:

Um stupid question but is it possible to BF at home and not pump? I got the impression that if you didn't regularly express your milk (every few hours) you stopped producing it. The idea that I could FF at daycare and BF at home is somewhat appealing.

Obviously I haven't been there yet but the pump seems very oppressive to me.

I think your boobs can kind of learn to tell time.

Lol. Yes your boobs do learn to tell time, just like when baby starts to sleep through the night.

I had friends who ff at daycare and nursed at night if their job was not pumping friendly.


I am the only one of my friends to bf past 6 months and I also found it surprising. At that point it is so much easier to bf then ff and I cant imagine how hard it would be to wean a baby from the boob when they are so used to it. DS1 weaned at 15 months, but I wascwilling to nurse until 2 if he wanted to. I am a SAHM though, I only went back to work for about 6 weeks. If I had to pump for a whole year maybe I would have felt differently.

[ohgillian]

Given the demographic you describe, that does sounds surprising.

[minzy]

As others have said, there could be any number of things going on which lead a family to formula. Medication needs, too much weight loss in the mom, poor initial latch, low supply, unwillingness to make the commitment with an older special needs child to also care for, etc. Working plus the commute would also increase the degree of difficulty. And I am not saying this to be inflammatory at all, but maybe it's the (perfectly valid) mindset that "formula raises healthy babies too" which makes white educated high income 30+ moms think it's okay not to breastfeed.

I also have noticed, as bnchanums pointed out, that support for breastfeeding wanes as the child ages (see the uproar over the nearly 4 year old nursing on the cover of TIME last week). Family members have recently asked how long we intend to keep it up, and at my daughter's 12 month appointment, her (new to us) pediatrician was less than encouraging about continuing the practice. He said several times "well, if you're going to continue to do that, you need to... give her the Vitamin D drops/brush her teeth after.... she should be getting less and less calories from milk now..." (We will be seeing someone else in the practice for the next appointment.)

FWIW, I recently toured several toddler rooms (12-18 mos) in day cares in this area. When I mentioned the possibility of bringing in breast milk, they all kind of seemed caught off guard as if no one does it, but they all said they could accommodate me if that's what I wanted to do.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 8:24:20 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Choco - Your story makes me think about why I really wish milk banks for non preemie babies were more common. I think I would be heart broken if I couldn't have BF'd DS.

I was definitely depressed. The worst part was that everyone told me he latched so well. I was on medication first for mastitis, then thrush, then the NP and the LCs I saw all said it shouldn't hurt anymore Um, it did so what the hell is next? The solution was supposed to be pumping, and that backfired big time.

I also forgot to mention that besides the pain, which caused me to cry at every feeding in the end, DS had pretty bad reflux for the first 6 months. Every time he was BF, milk would come shooting out of his nose. It was awful to witness and I was terrified. I even made sure he was burped every minute just to make sure he slowed down his eating. Alas, that just pissed him off and milk still came shooting out of his nose.

The only thing that helped was the special formula, Nutramigen. We only discovered that when we took him off BM so his hives could clear up. Again, lots of factors that went into my decision not to continue pushing through.

In hindsight, I wish someone told me to pump first before BFing DS. That is the only thing left I could think of that I didn't try back then when he was EBF.

Cosmos, I did email you and Tosa! I don't know if you remember, but I used your emails to speak with the LCs and they couldn't figure out what was wrong . I was at my wits end and couldn't understand why they couldn't help me.

[h]

Choco -- One of my good friends has had unbelieveable pain associated with nursing. She even said the same thing you did -- that even the air hurts. She had and was treated for thrush early on (baby is about 3 months old now), but even after getting that under control and pumping for days to maintain supply while the cuts on her nipples healed, she still had terrible pain, to the point that she would be shaking and crying as it got closer to time for the baby to nurse. Her shirt, the air, everything causes her breasts to hurt. Her doctor finally concluded that the pain was caused by Raynaud's Syndrome (which she previously had no idea she had), as her nipples were turning blue. Apparently the phenomenon of extreme pain when bfing caused by previously undiagnosed Raynaud's Syndrome is not all that uncommon. I wonder if something similar could have been going on with you.

[savannah11]

I loved Bfing. If I had been a SAHM I would have BFed for way longer than I did. Unfortunately the pump and I did not get along. I just didn't respond. DS lost weight after I went back to work because I just could not get enough to feed him and my supply dropped. I consulted an LC, borrowed several pumps, even rented a hospital grade pump, but it was over. I switched to formula at 4.5 months.

I was able to hang on a little longer with DD, til 6 months, mostly because she refused the bottle and reverse cycled. However, I still did not respond well to the pump and nursing every 2 hours all night long was affecting my ability to work. So I forcibly weaned her. I personally could not work and continue to bf. I was quite sad about it.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 10:24:18 GMT -5 h said:

Choco -- One of my good friends has had unbelieveable pain associated with nursing. She even said the same thing you did -- that even the air hurts. She had and was treated for thrush early on (baby is about 3 months old now), but even after getting that under control and pumping for days to maintain supply while the cuts on her nipples healed, she still had terrible pain, to the point that she would be shaking and crying as it got closer to time for the baby to nurse. Her shirt, the air, everything causes her breasts to hurt. Her doctor finally concluded that the pain was caused by Raynaud's Syndrome (which she previously had no idea she had), as her nipples were turning blue. Apparently the phenomenon of extreme pain when bfing caused by previously undiagnosed Raynaud's Syndrome is not all that uncommon. I wonder if something similar could have been going on with you.

Was your friend able to find a solution after the diagnosis? I don't know anything about Reynaud's but thank you for mentioning this. I will make sure I get tested the next time I get pregnant so I at least know what I am up against. Wiki shows different colors and I never got to blue, but I was at pink color and that is why the OB and NP assumed I had thrush

[badtzmaru22]

New mom checking in to say I am on my fourth day back to work, and need to figure out where to sign up to advocate for 6 months of FMLA-type job protection. (At least 6mo... But if 6mo EBF is going to be the rec from AAP, we at least need the time/support for that).

I feel like I just got the hang of BF, and now I have to figure out a pumping schedule. Pumping at work is a hassle, but at least I can do it. I feel like a bag lady carrying around the pump and all my work stuff though. And I feel super-crunchy for pumping at work, because I just don't feel like I live in a very pro-BF area. I'm glad I was stubborn enough to stick it out. It was rough for a long time- much longer than the two weeks people warned me it would suck for, and then one day I realized it hadn't been horrible for a while, and I was actually enjoying it. I cannot imagine having to get a bottle together in the middle of the night either. Thank goodness for the cosleeper and the boob.

[h]

choco -- My friend still has significant pain when nursing, but it has gotten bearable. Her current goal is to get to 6 months (prior to having her daughter she was very commited to nursing as long as possible). I will ask her if anything she has done has helped to make things better.

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 13:21:36 GMT -5 h said:

choco -- My friend still has significant pain when nursing, but it has gotten bearable. Her current goal is to get to 6 months (prior to having her daughter she was very commited to nursing as long as possible). I will ask her if anything she has done has helped to make things better.

That sucks. It is too bad they don't make some kind of topical ointment that would numb the area (but not impact the baby).

[h]

May 15, 2012 13:29:52 GMT -5 karinothing said:

May 15, 2012 13:21:36 GMT -5 h said:

choco -- My friend still has significant pain when nursing, but it has gotten bearable. Her current goal is to get to 6 months (prior to having her daughter she was very commited to nursing as long as possible). I will ask her if anything she has done has helped to make things better.

That sucks. It is too bad they don't make some kind of topical ointment that would numb the area (but not impact the baby).

Even if a non-harmful numbing agent existed, I am not sure anything topical would work? I think the pain is caused by the blood vessels constricting, so a topical numbing agent might not do much. It is definitely sucky. I am pretty shocked that she is still nursing. I am pretty darn pro-bf, and I think I would have given up when I was still biting a pillow to keep from screaming every time I fed my six week old...

[keh2oblue]

When DD started DC, I could tell based on some of the questions that the woman didn't usually have BF babies in her care and she's been running a DC for 20 years.

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 13:33:41 GMT -5 h said:

May 15, 2012 13:29:52 GMT -5 karinothing said:

That sucks. It is too bad they don't make some kind of topical ointment that would numb the area (but not impact the baby).

Even if a non-harmful numbing agent existed, I am not sure anything topical would work? I think the pain is caused by the blood vessels constricting, so a topical numbing agent might not do much. It is definitely sucky. I am pretty shocked that she is still nursing. I am pretty darn pro-bf, and I think I would have given up when I was still biting a pillow to keep from screaming every time I fed my six week old...

Oh, wow. She is tough! Yeah, I am not sure I could have managed that either. Someone needs to get that woman a gift card to the spa ASAP.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 14:35:28 GMT -5 karinothing said:

May 15, 2012 13:33:41 GMT -5 h said:

Even if a non-harmful numbing agent existed, I am not sure anything topical would work? I think the pain is caused by the blood vessels constricting, so a topical numbing agent might not do much. It is definitely sucky. I am pretty shocked that she is still nursing. I am pretty darn pro-bf, and I think I would have given up when I was still biting a pillow to keep from screaming every time I fed my six week old...

Oh, wow. She is tough! Yeah, I am not sure I could have managed that either. Someone needs to get that woman a gift card to the spa ASAP.

She is a trooper! I couldn't last beyond 10wks and again, when I tried pumping instead my supply disappeared. Please tell her she is amazing, that pain was worse than my contractions during labor prior to the epi. Way way worse.

[Mushe]

May 15, 2012 15:02:33 GMT -5 @choco said:

May 15, 2012 14:35:28 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Oh, wow. She is tough! Yeah, I am not sure I could have managed that either. Someone needs to get that woman a gift card to the spa ASAP.

She is a trooper! I couldn't last beyond 10wks and again, when I tried pumping instead my supply disappeared. Please tell her she is amazing, that pain was worse than my contractions during labor prior to the epi. Way way worse.

The LC who leads the Mommy & Me group I was going to was talking about Raynaud's, and said what they recommend is to put your hand over the breast immediately as the baby pulls off. She said that the sudden rush of air to the breast leads to the pain, and that if you can I guess ease it back to room temp and being dry, it helps.

[everam01]

A lot of the moms at my daycare sent formula during the day and BF morning and night so they didn't have to pump at work.

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 15:11:04 GMT -5 @booby said:

this is really dumb kari - there are so many reasons that working women can't or won't BF full-time, if at all.

DUDE I never said that I care why or that I care that they FF. I just made an observation. I didn't realize that it was impossible to say ANYTHING regarding breastfeeding/formula feeding without it being dumb. Sorry.

[GailGoldie]

i know a ton of moms who nursed or pumped up until the child went to daycare.... it's a LOT of work to keep up (as you know) when you go back to work... many stop by then (in my area people have about 4 months or more off).

I EP'd for all of my boys- but stopped after 2mo for DS1 and after 1 mo with the twins b/c i just needed my body back and couldn't deal with the limitations and having 3 kids.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 15:35:53 GMT -5 karinothing said:

May 15, 2012 15:11:04 GMT -5 @booby said:

this is really dumb kari - there are so many reasons that working women can't or won't BF full-time, if at all.

DUDE I never said that I care why or that I care that they FF. I just made an observation. I didn't realize that it was impossible to say ANYTHING regarding breastfeeding/formula feeding without it being dumb. Sorry.

Booby is a bitch. ignore her.

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 15:38:37 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

May 15, 2012 15:35:53 GMT -5 karinothing said:

DUDE I never said that I care why or that I care that they FF. I just made an observation. I didn't realize that it was impossible to say ANYTHING regarding breastfeeding/formula feeding without it being dumb. Sorry.

Booby is a bitch. ignore her.

Ha, I know! I went against my better judgement responding.

I will say after reading this it really makes me wish that more folks were able to take 6 months of maternity leave. I think one poster mentioned this but if the AAP is going to say that BF is optimal and that this is a public health issue then it seems like 6 months should be standard. But I doubt I will get much argument on that on this board.

[Deleted]

6 months would be awesome.

I'm probably going to wind up getting 14 weeks, because thats how much NJ STD and PFL will give me.

[hannamarin]

Cosmos,are you pulling a tosa?

[Wordtothewise]

May 15, 2012 8:24:20 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Choco - Your story makes me think about why I really wish milk banks for non preemie babies were more common. I think I would be heart broken if I couldn't have BF'd DS.

Even for preemies, they are not that common. My preemie was born 10 weeks early. He didn't qualify for the milk bank because his birth weight was above the cut-off. Because there is such a scarcity, it is saved for the most critical preemies (which at our hospital - a top NIcU in the DC area) was under 2.5 lbs. Gratefully, my preemie was larger than that even though he was so early.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 16:55:47 GMT -5 @hannamarin said:

Cosmos,are you pulling a tosa?

lol. not pg yet.

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 17:03:32 GMT -5 @Wordtothewise said:

May 15, 2012 8:24:20 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Choco - Your story makes me think about why I really wish milk banks for non preemie babies were more common. I think I would be heart broken if I couldn't have BF'd DS.

Even for preemies, they are not that common. My preemie was born 10 weeks early. He didn't qualify for the milk bank because his birth weight was above the cut-off. Because there is such a scarcity, it is saved for the most critical preemies (which at our hospital - a top NIcU in the DC area) was under 2.5 lbs. Gratefully, my preemie was larger than that even though he was so early.

They should have breast milk drives like they have blood drives. IMO, it is a similar product. Both are essential to life (although I guess there is no blood alternative similar to formula..so not as much of a need). But mom's could just stop by pump and then go (and it would be tested as thoroughly as the blood is tested).

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 17:26:22 GMT -5 karinothing said:

May 15, 2012 17:03:32 GMT -5 @Wordtothewise said:

Even for preemies, they are not that common. My preemie was born 10 weeks early. He didn't qualify for the milk bank because his birth weight was above the cut-off. Because there is such a scarcity, it is saved for the most critical preemies (which at our hospital - a top NIcU in the DC area) was under 2.5 lbs. Gratefully, my preemie was larger than that even though he was so early.

They should have breast milk drives like they have blood drives. IMO, it is a similar product. Both are essential to life (although I guess there is no blood alternative similar to formula..so not as much of a need). But mom's could just stop by pump and then go (and it would be tested as thoroughly as the blood is tested).

I think this is a fabulous idea. I wonder how this could be implemented. If I was lactating, I'd absolutely donate.

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 17:27:47 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

May 15, 2012 17:26:22 GMT -5 karinothing said:

They should have breast milk drives like they have blood drives. IMO, it is a similar product. Both are essential to life (although I guess there is no blood alternative similar to formula..so not as much of a need). But mom's could just stop by pump and then go (and it would be tested as thoroughly as the blood is tested).

I think this is a fabulous idea. I wonder how this could be implemented. If I was lactating, I'd absolutely donate.

Yeah, I have no idea how to go about implementing it. My guess is it would require lots of money. It just seems like it would be a pretty simple idea. The place could have hospital grade pumps set up. I wonder if it would be possible to work with a local milk bank to set up something like this?


ETA: I have heard of local breast milk drives but they are done on a very small scale and I don't think the milk is tested. Like, I read a story about a mom who died of cancer after she gave birth. Her one wish was that her baby have breast milk and people sent in breast milk from around the country. I am not sure how they handled the safety aspect though.

[Wordtothewise]

May 15, 2012 17:26:22 GMT -5 karinothing said:

May 15, 2012 17:03:32 GMT -5 @Wordtothewise said:

Even for preemies, they are not that common. My preemie was born 10 weeks early. He didn't qualify for the milk bank because his birth weight was above the cut-off. Because there is such a scarcity, it is saved for the most critical preemies (which at our hospital - a top NIcU in the DC area) was under 2.5 lbs. Gratefully, my preemie was larger than that even though he was so early.

They should have breast milk drives like they have blood drives. IMO, it is a similar product. Both are essential to life (although I guess there is no blood alternative similar to formula..so not as much of a need). But mom's could just stop by pump and then go (and it would be tested as thoroughly as the blood is tested).

Honestly,even if it had been available to us, I am not sure I would have consented to it. My baby did need blood transfusions and neither my husband (because of the type) nor I (because I needed some myself) could be donors, so we had to go with an anonymous donor. And I still worry about it. I don't think I could let my child receive donated breastmilk over an extended period. For preemies, the big benefit is reduced risk of NEC and infection reduction. Most 30 weekers don't get NEC. And the infection risk is most effectively reduced when it comes from the bio mom. So, without a lot of evidence that shows a huge benefit (which there isn't ), I wouldn't assume the risk of giving my child the bodily fluid of unknown women I would have probably had a differrent perspective had my child been a 25 or 26 weeker and much more susceptible to NEC.