I am surprised that . . . (maybe judgy)

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 17:36:39 GMT -5 @Wordtothewise said:

May 15, 2012 17:26:22 GMT -5 karinothing said:

They should have breast milk drives like they have blood drives. IMO, it is a similar product. Both are essential to life (although I guess there is no blood alternative similar to formula..so not as much of a need). But mom's could just stop by pump and then go (and it would be tested as thoroughly as the blood is tested).

Honestly,even if it had been available to us, I am not sure I would have consented to it. My baby did need blood transfusions and neither my husband (because of the type) nor I (because I needed some myself) could be donors, so we had to go with an anonymous donor. And I still worry about it. I don't think I could let my child receive donated breastmilk over an extended period. For preemies, the big benefit is reduced risk of NEC and infection reduction. Most 30 weekers don't get NEC. And the infection risk is most effectively reduced when it comes from the bio mom. So, without a lot of evidence that shows a huge benefit (which there isn't ), I wouldn't assume the risk of giving my child the bodily fluid of unknown women I would have probably had a differrent perspective had my child been a 25 or 26 weeker and much more susceptible to NEC.

Yeah, I know there are some women that feel that way. I also think there is some stigma with accepting donated breastmilk (I think a lot of people would say its gross).

But I also know there must be a great deal that don't (if they are willing to take untested BM from local drives). I know my sister was born super early (she is from my dad's first wife so I am not sure how early, but she was under 2lbs at birth). I know she received donated breast milk That was back before they tested stuff too.

[Wordtothewise]

May 15, 2012 17:41:36 GMT -5 karinothing said:

May 15, 2012 17:36:39 GMT -5 @Wordtothewise said:

Honestly,even if it had been available to us, I am not sure I would have consented to it. My baby did need blood transfusions and neither my husband (because of the type) nor I (because I needed some myself) could be donors, so we had to go with an anonymous donor. And I still worry about it. I don't think I could let my child receive donated breastmilk over an extended period. For preemies, the big benefit is reduced risk of NEC and infection reduction. Most 30 weekers don't get NEC. And the infection risk is most effectively reduced when it comes from the bio mom. So, without a lot of evidence that shows a huge benefit (which there isn't ), I wouldn't assume the risk of giving my child the bodily fluid of unknown women I would have probably had a differrent perspective had my child been a 25 or 26 weeker and much more susceptible to NEC.

Yeah, I know there are some women that feel that way. I also think there is some stigma with accepting donated breastmilk (I think a lot of people would say its gross).

But I also know there must be a great deal that don't (if they are willing to take untested BM from local drives). I know my sister was born super early (she is from my dad's first wife so I am not sure how early, but she was under 2lbs at birth). I know she received donated breast milk That was back before they tested stuff too.

I think it would be a great option so long as all of the risks were adequately explained. My husband is an MD and very pro-breastfeeding. When it became clear that our baby was coming early, we had a consult with a neonatologist and he told us that if our baby was smaller than the weight restriction, we had the option of donated breastmilk if we needed it. My husband wasn't okay with it either, mostly because he didn't think the controls over it were sufficient when compared to the benefits But, we were passed the really critical 28 week mark.

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 17:58:47 GMT -5 @Wordtothewise said:

May 15, 2012 17:41:36 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Yeah, I know there are some women that feel that way. I also think there is some stigma with accepting donated breastmilk (I think a lot of people would say its gross).

But I also know there must be a great deal that don't (if they are willing to take untested BM from local drives). I know my sister was born super early (she is from my dad's first wife so I am not sure how early, but she was under 2lbs at birth). I know she received donated breast milk That was back before they tested stuff too.

I think it would be a great option so long as all of the risks were adequately explained. My husband is an MD and very pro-breastfeeding. When it became clear that our baby was coming early, we had a consult with a neonatologist and he told us that if our baby was smaller than the weight restriction, we had the option of donated breastmilk if we needed it. My husband wasn't okay with it either, mostly because he didn't think the controls over it were sufficient when compared to the benefits But, we were passed the really critical 28 week mark.

Oh, interesting. Do you know what his specific concerns were? I would be interested in what could be done to make parents feel more comfortable with the choice. I would assume there is less of a risk with BM then there is with blood (since transmission of disease is less common in BM vs blood)

[Wordtothewise]

Kari - I think a lot of his concerns stemmed from the fact that unlike blood, you are trusting a non-medical professional who isn't subject to any regulation to collect the breast milk. You have to trust that they used cleaned tools, etc and that it wa stored properly. The milk bank doesn't get involved until later, unlike blood in which the donor is not really involved in that way. And in our situation, we saw risks without huge benefits. But again, if I had a 25 or 26 weeker, I would probably have been ok with it.

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 19:12:18 GMT -5 @Wordtothewise said:

Kari - I think a lot of his concerns stemmed from the fact that unlike blood, you are trusting a non-medical professional who isn't subject to any regulation to collect the breast milk. You have to trust that they used cleaned tools, etc and that it wa stored properly. The milk bank doesn't get involved until later, unlike blood in which the donor is not really involved in that way. And in our situation, we saw risks without huge benefits. But again, if I had a 25 or 26 weeker, I would probably have been ok with it.

Oh, that makes sense. This is why my milk donation drives would work! It would all be done and supervised by medical professionals. But I completely understand what you are saying. I am glad you baby is doing fine now!

[curbsideprophet]

I have no idea if the other kids in DDs class get BM or FM.

I think some type of six month job protection would be awesome. I think a lot of women stop breastfeeding when they return to work. Pumping can be a huge pain sometimes, but for me, it is worth it.

[Wordtothewise]

Thanks Kari! We have been very lucky so far. He seems to be doing quite well. I, on the other hand, will never be the same.

[Willis Jackson]

I would totally swing by and donate breast milk if there were drives. They could hand out lactation cookies!

[SusanBAnthony]

May 15, 2012 8:04:57 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Oh, and I like BFing, but honestly the thought of my children not taking a bottle scares me a bit. I know parents that haven't been away from their children for moremthan a few hrs because they have to nurse.

Or, the woman on my local mommies board whose 9month old nurses all.night.long because he won't take a bottle from the nanny.

I think I'd get depressed very quickly if I knew I couldn't leave my child for more than a few hrs at a time. I'd worry about appts running late, traffic, the ability to go back to work, etc.

This is pretty much my world when my kids were babies. It drove me crazy at first and contributed to PPD, but now I just see it as a fact of life when I have a newborn. Which btw I hate (not trying to be a martyr)! But that is just how my kids have turned out, and bf'ing is a top priority for me so I was willing to put up with it.

Then dd had a nursing strike at 9 months and it was awful. Ff'ing sucked IMO, and it did not result in her sleeping longer at nit, at all. Instead of rolling over to nurse, I just had to get up and make bottles. So I have pretty much decided it is a temperament thing (coupled with your willingness to do CIO, etc) more than a bf vs. ff thing.

[Ashley&Scott]

6 months would rock! (I was only able to take 8 weeks, my company is too small for FMLA)

I've donated breast milk twice, aprprox 400oz. Both times have been local private donations, once through my local board & once through Human Milk 4 Human Babies.

My freezer is almost at capacity so I will be donating again soon.

[oregonpachey]

I wish I could have BF for longer with my older son. It was a nightmare. We had to teach him how to suck, I was in extreme pain, dealt with both under and over supply and then he was diagnosed with severe reflux at three months. By then it was almost time for me to go back to work and didn't have enough time or the energy to establish a good BF routine. I did pump until he was 7 months old. The whole experience sucked and I wound up with PPD.

This time I said I would try but would not put myself through that emotional rollercoaster. DS did great at first but then my milk came in and forget it. I EP now and am happy that he gets BM. My goal is a year but realistically if I make it to six months I will be thrilled.

I have a mean oversupply so I have been fortunate to donate to a mom with twins a few times.

[brit1017]

I tried to BF with both kids, but I never produced anywhere near enough milk to EBF, even when taking medication with DD. Once I went back to work (at 3 months with each), my meager supply couldn't hold up- pumping was extremely frustrating and unsuccessful for me. Since we were already supplementing with formula, it wasn't a big deal to just go FF full time.

I've noticed that in my workplace, which is jampacked with women of child-bearing age, that though a lot BF while on ML, very few pump here. I think that it has a lot to do with not having a private place to pump. Most are in cubicles, but even those in offices have one wall that is entirely glass. And this is despite working in a dept under the NYC Dept of Health, which has published recommendations to EBF until 1 year.

[karinothing]

May 16, 2012 6:24:57 GMT -5 brit1017 said:

I tried to BF with both kids, but I never produced anywhere near enough milk to EBF, even when taking medication with DD. Once I went back to work (at 3 months with each), my meager supply couldn't hold up- pumping was extremely frustrating and unsuccessful for me. Since we were already supplementing with formula, it wasn't a big deal to just go FF full time.

I've noticed that in my workplace, which is jampacked with women of child-bearing age, that though a lot BF while on ML, very few pump here. I think that it has a lot to do with not having a private place to pump. Most are in cubicles, but even those in offices have one wall that is entirely glass. And this is despite working in a dept under the NYC Dept of Health, which has published recommendations to EBF until 1 year.

Don't they have to provide a lactaction room by law? I thought the new law passed under Obama demanded that. That is cr@p that they aren't more supportive.

[karinothing]

May 15, 2012 20:59:17 GMT -5 Ashley&Scott said:

6 months would rock! (I was only able to take 8 weeks, my company is too small for FMLA)

I've donated breast milk twice, aprprox 400oz. Both times have been local private donations, once through my local board & once through Human Milk 4 Human Babies.

My freezer is almost at capacity so I will be donating again soon.

That is awesome! I am slowly building up my supply and I really hope to donate soon.

[thedash]

May 15, 2012 7:57:49 GMT -5 Willis Jackson said:

I think I must live in a hippie enclave, but I almost never see a mother bottle feeding a baby at the playground, library, Target, preschool pick-up, etc. Of course we're a bunch of SAHPs since I'm seeing these people on weekdays, but still.

What are the statistics for BFing in SAHMs vs. working moms? Anyone know?

I think I would have continued to BF or at least EP much longer if I didn't go back to work at 8 weeks. DS lost his ability to latch from severe reflux and my job did not make it possible to always keep a regular pumping schedule.

[aspentosh]

I'm surprised by the lack of BFing around me in general (I live in a similar area to you). There is only one other infant at daycare and they do get BM but none of my friends have BF.

ETA: And you're right about the gov't being so supportive. My building has a lactation room with a Medela Symphony we can use. They couldn't make it easier on me. But I've been lucky and BFing has worked for us.

[Deleted]

I really don't think it is your place to judge how people feed their children. I tried and with my sons medical condition and being told we were feeding him wrong, I was pumping and not getting much and we had to feed out of a bottle for his condition. I completely dried up because of the stress of all of it. We decided to formula feed because it was becoming hazardous to my health to try to breast feed since I wasn't eating, drinking or sleeping enough.

You have no idea the reasons that these parents chose to formula feed and maybe they weren't able to. I got enough side eyes going out places and mixing my formula to know it feels shitty to judge someone for what you are seeing when there may be something not visible on the surface.

[SusanBAnthony]

May 16, 2012 8:42:28 GMT -5 @sounderschick said:

I really don't think it is your place to judge how people feed their children. I tried and with my sons medical condition and being told we were feeding him wrong, I was pumping and not getting much and we had to feed out of a bottle for his condition. I completely dried up because of the stress of all of it. We decided to formula feed because it was becoming hazardous to my health to try to breast feed since I wasn't eating, drinking or sleeping enough.

You have no idea the reasons that these parents chose to formula feed and maybe they weren't able to. I got enough side eyes going out places and mixing my formula to know it feels shitty to judge someone for what you are seeing when there may be something not visible on the surface.

She is judging. She is observing a departure in demographics.

[karinothing]

May 16, 2012 8:54:24 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

May 16, 2012 8:42:28 GMT -5 @sounderschick said:

I really don't think it is your place to judge how people feed their children. I tried and with my sons medical condition and being told we were feeding him wrong, I was pumping and not getting much and we had to feed out of a bottle for his condition. I completely dried up because of the stress of all of it. We decided to formula feed because it was becoming hazardous to my health to try to breast feed since I wasn't eating, drinking or sleeping enough.

You have no idea the reasons that these parents chose to formula feed and maybe they weren't able to. I got enough side eyes going out places and mixing my formula to know it feels shitty to judge someone for what you are seeing when there may be something not visible on the surface.

She is judging. She is observing a departure in demographics.

Are you trying to say I am not judging? Is the not missing? ha ha

TO be honest, I really didn't think I was judging (I put it in the title becuase I know that it is impossible to talk about anything related to BF/FF on the internet without people getting up in arms). I just know what the statistics are (I love numbers) and I know that this was a departure from that. I found it curious.

I must repeat I could care less that these parents FF and really I could care less why they FF. I was just surprised that my kid was the only one on BM. I don't give the side eye to people FF (I just smile like a goof ball at all babies). I don't say anything to people about their choice to FF.

[Deleted]

May 16, 2012 8:54:24 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

May 16, 2012 8:42:28 GMT -5 @sounderschick said:

I really don't think it is your place to judge how people feed their children. I tried and with my sons medical condition and being told we were feeding him wrong, I was pumping and not getting much and we had to feed out of a bottle for his condition. I completely dried up because of the stress of all of it. We decided to formula feed because it was becoming hazardous to my health to try to breast feed since I wasn't eating, drinking or sleeping enough.

You have no idea the reasons that these parents chose to formula feed and maybe they weren't able to. I got enough side eyes going out places and mixing my formula to know it feels shitty to judge someone for what you are seeing when there may be something not visible on the surface.

She is judging. She is observing a departure in demographics.

I understand that. I see more women in my area breast feeding than formula feeding. It just hurts that there are people out there that are going to judge me for formula feeding when my sons cleft lip and palate didn't allow him to latch at all. And also because of the stress of doctors appointments and being told we weren't doing it right.

I went down a very dark path. I cried for days because even though I knew I was doing what was best for my son, people still looked at me weird and friends asked me why I formula fed when they knew his condition and the stuff we were going through just to get him to eat.

[hannamarin]

I would rathergive my baby scientifically/fda approved formulathan strangers BM. You cant test for their diet, etc

[karinothing]

May 16, 2012 9:20:49 GMT -5 @hannamarin said:

I would rathergive my baby scientifically/fda approved formulathan strangers BM. You cant test for their diet, etc

Hey - I answered this in the other post. But absent your kid having some allergy what you eat isn't going to impact the nutritional value of your BM. That is one of the amazing things about BM, I can eat like cr@p and my kid still gets delicious nutrition. I promise that if I eat a cheeseburger he doesn't get a mouthful of saturated fat, it is not like my boobs are like birds regurgitating pre-chewed food into his mouth

Anyhoo, I do know a lot of women who have used (or would use) donated BM and I figure if we can make the process even safer that is good for everyone.