Requested eval for DD

[jreeds]

DH & I feel a little lost. This whole school year ( Kindy) for DD has been stressful. Notes home every week, behavior problems, not finishing her work etc. We have seen improvement since the start of the year in most areas. Her behavior is still an issue and we are still getting notes home weekly. Hands on stuff, not giving personal space, outright defiant  at times. Last week she got a note home because she was hitting 5th grade boys in the privates.

We've had meetings with her teacher, some including DD, some not. Each time DH & I have mentioned possible evaluation. We had already spoken with DD's Pedi when she was 3 and going into pre-K and at that time had agreed to wait until she was closer to 6.

Her academics are not an issue for the most part. She picks up quick and does well in her work ( the stuff she completes). But the teacher says she does have a very hard time getting her to stay on task. We do see this at home too.

After Last weeks note DH & I requested in writing to have her evaluated. The teacher agrees it is time and said she would start the process with guidance at the school. The only problem is now we have 3 weeks til the end of the year so I don't know where that leaves us.

Sorry this post is kind of all over the place.

[auntie]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

The next thing that should happen is that the school will have you sign a "consent to evaluate" and give you a copy of the procedural safeguards under IDEA. The school could also refuse to evaluate which would require due process- but this isn't likely given the paper trail you have and the teacher buy-in.

Once that form is signed, the district will have 60 school days in which to evaluate her. I wouldn't expect much traction until next fall- the professionals responsible are in the midst of IEP season getting those kids already served by special education set up for next year. At the very start of the next academic year, there will be an organizational period where they deal with existing IEPs and kids newly moved into the district. It could take a while to get through to the top of the list.

You could also ask your pedi for a referral to a private psychologist for an eval as well. For behavioral issues like this, I prefer to have a professional I chose and trust offer a second opinion. Do you expect an ADHD dx or do you think she may have other issues as well? The handsy and space stuff is sometimes seen in kids on spectrum. Sometimes what teachers call "defiance" is also more of an ASD thing than an oppositional behavior.

[jreeds]

Thanks for the reply Auntie



Our pedi had given us a name of a child psychologist when we were debating having her evaluated previously.  I was going to give him a call and see if he still thinks we should go to the name he gave us or if he recomends anyone else ( since it's been a few years).  We do suspect at the very least ADHD ( both DH and my sister have been diagnosed with it). She has a lot of other things that fall under the SPD, ODD, ASD spectrums. Right now she seems all over the place and I'm sure there is a lot we're missing.  I definitely feel like this behaviour of hers is somewhat beyond her control. On days when she has a really good day at school she completely meltsdown at home and has even made the comment before that she does try and focus like the teacher tells her. But the teacher tells her she's not really trying ( that one pissed me off)

[sarahsas]

Has any psychological disorder been diagnosed, or ADHD?

From just reading the information that you are describing, it could be considered a conduct disorder, which is not an educational diagnosis (aka, no IEP can be written for it). If she is not learning disabled, and it doesn't sound like it since you say her academics aren't affected, the only educational diagnoses she could get are emotionally disturbed (ED) or other health impaired (OHI). ED diagnosis requires a significant emotional impairment that gets in the way of school - aka anxiety, depression, etc. OHI is more broad but it has to be a SIGNIFICANT impairment to the school environment. ADHD *sometimes* can fall in this category, but only in very severe cases.

If I were you, I would look into independent psychological testing to help narrow down the issue. With the information you wrote, our school psych would most likely refuse testing without major data collection or some kind of diagnosis.

Our local university has a large entity that does a huge battery of psych testing that is free to county residents. It would be really good for you to look into this.

I'm a school administrator with a background in special ed, for some background. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

[auntie]

Jun 7, 2014 15:45:08 GMT -5 sarahsas said:

Has any psychological disorder been diagnosed, or ADHD?

From just reading the information that you are describing, it could be considered a conduct disorder, which is not an educational diagnosis (aka, no IEP can be written for it). If she is not learning disabled, and it doesn't sound like it since you say her academics aren't affected, the only educational diagnoses she could get are emotionally disturbed (ED) or other health impaired (OHI). ED diagnosis requires a significant emotional impairment that gets in the way of school - aka anxiety, depression, etc. OHI is more broad but it has to be a SIGNIFICANT impairment to the school environment. ADHD *sometimes* can fall in this category, but only in very severe cases.

If I were you, I would look into independent psychological testing to help narrow down the issue. With the information you wrote, our school psych would most likely refuse testing without major data collection or some kind of diagnosis.

Our local university has a large entity that does a huge battery of psych testing that is free to county residents. It would be really good for you to look into this.

I'm a school administrator with a background in special ed, for some background. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

I'm just going to say that the bolded both enrages and scares the shit out of me as a parent. 

It's not  "a conduct disorder" it's Conduct Disorder.

www.aacap.org/aacap/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/Facts_for_Families_Pages/Conduct_Disorder_33.aspx


If this were the case, and I doubt it is, the child's educational needs could be serviced under an IEP classification of Emotional/Behavioral Disorder or even OHI.

But like I said- I doubt it's Conduct Disorder- an afternoon of ball tapping could just as easily be impulsivity, poor judgement or self defense. It's pretty rare to see CD in a kindie kid of either gender; although some kids this age might have something that looks like ODD with red flags for CD. One would expect a child to be willfully disobedient, aggressive, argumentative and mean  to animals- the OP isn't sharing anything along those lines.

In any case, the child is entitled to a free MFE in all areas of suspected disability. Most places in the U.S. do not have a university where families can get these sorts of evaluations done for free. Where I live, a basic neuropsych for this sort of presentation would cost a minimum of $3K and would likely be paid for OOP because the insurance company will see it as an educational issue with coverage under IDEA. 

I know a lot of kids with "just" ADHD who are both served and protected under IDEA by IEPs. If the parents are getting weekly communication from the teachers about behavior, I'd say it rises to the standard of significant educational impact. If the school psychologist refused to evaluate, there are steps the parents can take around this. With any luck, jreeds lives in a district that is better than the one by which your are employed.

[jreeds]

Jun 8, 2014 12:06:31 GMT -5 auntie said:

Jun 7, 2014 15:45:08 GMT -5 sarahsas said:

Has any psychological disorder been diagnosed, or ADHD?

From just reading the information that you are describing, it could be considered a conduct disorder, which is not an educational diagnosis (aka, no IEP can be written for it). If she is not learning disabled, and it doesn't sound like it since you say her academics aren't affected, the only educational diagnoses she could get are emotionally disturbed (ED) or other health impaired (OHI). ED diagnosis requires a significant emotional impairment that gets in the way of school - aka anxiety, depression, etc. OHI is more broad but it has to be a SIGNIFICANT impairment to the school environment. ADHD *sometimes* can fall in this category, but only in very severe cases.

If I were you, I would look into independent psychological testing to help narrow down the issue. With the information you wrote, our school psych would most likely refuse testing without major data collection or some kind of diagnosis.

Our local university has a large entity that does a huge battery of psych testing that is free to county residents. It would be really good for you to look into this.

I'm a school administrator with a background in special ed, for some background. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

I'm just going to say that the bolded both enrages and scares the shit out of me as a parent. 

It's not  "a conduct disorder" it's Conduct Disorder.

www.aacap.org/aacap/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/Facts_for_Families_Pages/Conduct_Disorder_33.aspx


If this were the case, and I doubt it is, the child's educational needs could be serviced under an IEP classification of Emotional/Behavioral Disorder or even OHI.

But like I said- I doubt it's Conduct Disorder- an afternoon of ball tapping could just as easily be impulsivity, poor judgement or self defense. It's pretty rare to see CD in a kindie kid of either gender; although some kids this age might have something that looks like ODD with red flags for CD. One would expect a child to be willfully disobedient, aggressive, argumentative and mean  to animals- the OP isn't sharing anything along those lines.

In any case, the child is entitled to a free MFE in all areas of suspected disability. Most places in the U.S. do not have a university where families can get these sorts of evaluations done for free. Where I live, a basic neuropsych for this sort of presentation would cost a minimum of $3K and would likely be paid for OOP because the insurance company will see it as an educational issue with coverage under IDEA. 

I know a lot of kids with "just" ADHD who are both served and protected under IDEA by IEPs. If the parents are getting weekly communication from the teachers about behavior, I'd say it rises to the standard of significant educational impact. If the school psychologist refused to evaluate, there are steps the parents can take around this. With any luck, jreeds lives in a district that is better than the one by which your are employed.

I gotta say...I didn't respond to that post because I didn't really know how. But you did a prety good job of it auntie.  No, she does not exhibit any of these symptoms. I mean, does she always listen to us and do as she told? No, but no worse than any other 5 year old I don't think. And if anything she prefers the company of animals to people,lol. Also, yes it definitely effects education because while she is understanding what they are learning now, if we can't get her to stay on task or pay attention in class she will inevitably fall behind.

At any rate. We have set up another meeting with the teacher and an appt with her pedi.

[auntie]

You know, my son was a bit like this.

He's was pretty well behaved for me, but teachers would report behavior I had never personally witnessed. I don't think it's because I had lower standards or was more accommodating- we did a lot of travel, museums and restaurants where DS behaved appropriately, so I knew he could behave as expected. Most kids save their worst behavior for home where they know they're loved unconditionally- mine was the odd one who was well behaved for me and off the chain for others.

It's harder to access girls because when there is something going on, it tends to be more subtle in presentation. I'm always wary of "defiant" in a teacher report because it's such a loaded term and one that can be used improperly by teachers who don't understand the antecedent to a behavior. Sometimes people ascribe motives without really understanding why a child is behaving as they are.

A lot kids on spectrum are labeled defiant because they don't appreciate that a request to the class includes them. This was a huge issue for DS even into high school as an honor roll student. Or because they don't see the point in busy work once they've demonstrated mastery around an assignment. These are logical kids that understand seatwork is about learning to do something; if they know they know it they don't see the point. I know one boy whose school tried to paint him as ODD approaching CD because he avoided written work. The kid had a very high IQ and severe dysgraphia- his hands cramped writing. His "attitude" disappeared as soon as he got a keyboard. He's a newly minted attorney now.

Good luck with your meeting

[gnorah]

Good luck! I still think one of the best things we did was get our son assessed by a child psychologist. We talked to his school, because he was having problems there... Meltdowns, not listening, lashing out at other kids, running away... We had no idea what to do. The school would have put him on a list to be assessed but he was not the most at risk kid in the school, so it would have taken a couple of years and I couldn't deal with that. So my work insurance covered psychological services and we got the assessment done.

It was a huge eye opener and has really helped us understand what he needs and now he works. It took awhile to get everything setup for his IPP (our equivalent to an IEP), but now he's got a document that outlines what he needs and we know how to communicate to his teachers, day camp instructors, the whole thing. Sure, it's a lot of workers - but with the right information we have some idea what to do and life has become somewhat smoother.

I hope your meeting goes well and that you can get her assessed quickly.