Marathoners: what plan would you rec for a 1st timer?

[sassystace]

I am gearing up to start training for my first marathon (Columbus, Oct 20th).  I've done plenty of halfs over my three year running 'career' but am turning 40 this year and said it was time to conquer the marathon.  I typically run about 15-20 miles a week while not training for anything.  My goal is to finish upright and smiling under 5 hrs.

I am considering HH Novice 1 or 2, looked at FIRST plans (but I;m not a biker or swimmer so the cross train days kinda worry me), looked at all the random variations of other plans and it makes me more and more confused.  So if you could look back at your first time marathoner self and give advice on what plan to chose, what would it be?  And why?  TIA

[Wines Not Whines]

Hal Higdon Novice 1 or 2. I used those plans for my first two marathons, and I think they do a good job of preparing you for the mileage without asking you to do more than your body is prepared for. Good luck with training!

[lb2006]

agreed w/above. Those are great plans.

[texassmith]

I did Hal Higdon Novice 2 and was pleased with it. I had a nagging IT band that affected some of my long runs and ultimately the final 6-7 miles of my race, but that didn't have anything to so with the plan. I felt well-prepared for the marathon.

[gt7301b]

I did a variation of HH Novice plans. The main variation I would make is to add in two 20 milers or move the 20 miler up a week. Life happens and I wanted the flexibility that came with not having my one 20 miler the week before the taper started. Sure, 19 would be fine, but mentally I wanted to make sure I got the 20 in.

[clseale]

WTH is up with the Novice 2 plan? It says it bumps up mileage...but it peaks at a lower weekly mileage than the Novice 1? Is his site just messed up right now? Week 15 N1: 5, 10, 5, 20. Week 15 N2: 5, 5-pace, 5, 20. Is the difference just the 5 @ pace? Because I'm not loving the three 5s and then a 20. (Obviously I've never done a HH plan.)

ETA: Ditto gt7301b on the additional 20 miler. 

[CallingAllAngels]

Jun 5, 2014 8:55:48 GMT -5 clseale said:

WTH is up with the Novice 2 plan? It says it bumps up mileage...but it peaks at a lower weekly mileage than the Novice 1? Is his site just messed up right now? Week 15 N1: 5, 10, 5, 20. Week 15 N2: 5, 5-pace, 5, 20. Is the difference just the 5 @ pace? Because I'm not loving the three 5s and then a 20. (Obviously I've never done a HH plan.)

ETA: Ditto gt7301b on the additional 20 miler. 

I was looking at that too.  The previous weeks have higher mid-week mileage, but the weeks that you do 19 and 20-milers have fewer mid-week miles. 

ETA: the week of the 18-miler, the total weekly mileage is 36 miles. 

[jamalynn]

I have not done either plan but looking at them I would say either would probably work but I agree with clseale with some of the issues with N2. You may want to create your own mixing the 2 or check out SmartCoach on runnersworld.com to see what they would recommend and go from there. GL!

[biomaj5]

I used the HH Novice Supreme plan for my first and Novice I for my second.

[emuni04]

I used HH 1 for my first. I thought it prepared me well. Good luck!

[runaways]

I did HH novice 2 for my first. Well, I tried. I didn't really do it as written.

Anyway, I think that the issue with the lower weekly mileage for long long-run weeks is a big deal for someone who is trying to train hard and meet a time goal. For a first marathon, especially if you just want to finish, I think it's probably okay. It makes those long runs more doable for someone who may otherwise find them really daunting. I definitely agree about moving the 20 or adding a second one, because life happens.

All that said, knowing what I know now and just shooting for a fairly strong first marathon finish without a killer training plan, I'd probably do some variation of novice 2 and increase some of the mid-week mileage/mix up some of the runs to try to peak at about a 45 mile week.

[gt7301b]

Jun 5, 2014 8:55:48 GMT -5 clseale said:

WTH is up with the Novice 2 plan? It says it bumps up mileage...but it peaks at a lower weekly mileage than the Novice 1? Is his site just messed up right now? Week 15 N1: 5, 10, 5, 20. Week 15 N2: 5, 5-pace, 5, 20. Is the difference just the 5 @ pace? Because I'm not loving the three 5s and then a 20. (Obviously I've never done a HH plan.)

ETA: Ditto gt7301b on the additional 20 miler. 

I maxed out at 36 miles for my first (and currently my only) marathon and finished in 4:38.  If I remember correctly McMillian said I could finish in around 4:20.  So, I think the mileage is enough to get through the marathon, although I wasn't smiling.  At the time I wasn't really ready to tackle 40-50 mile weeks.

[clseale]

Jun 5, 2014 10:03:39 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

Jun 5, 2014 8:55:48 GMT -5 clseale said:

WTH is up with the Novice 2 plan? It says it bumps up mileage...but it peaks at a lower weekly mileage than the Novice 1? Is his site just messed up right now? Week 15 N1: 5, 10, 5, 20. Week 15 N2: 5, 5-pace, 5, 20. Is the difference just the 5 @ pace? Because I'm not loving the three 5s and then a 20. (Obviously I've never done a HH plan.)

ETA: Ditto gt7301b on the additional 20 miler. 

I maxed out at 36 miles for my first (and currently my only) marathon and finished in 4:38.  If I remember correctly McMillian said I could finish in around 4:20.  So, I think the mileage is enough to get through the marathon, although I wasn't smiling.  At the time I wasn't really ready to tackle 40-50 mile weeks.

But novice 1 DOES peak at 40 mpw. That's what seems odd to me. Why does it peak at a higher mpw than N2? N1 follows the rule of the mid-week longish run being 1/2 of your long run distance, (which I'm a big fan of).

My question was regarding the fact the novice 2 is supposed to be more advanced, but it has three 5s and a 20 as the top week. I was curious if the only difference really was the pace runs. I like pace runs a lot, but it would seem to make sense that you would keep that 10 miler, but perhaps make 4 of those miles pace miles. I'm failing to see the logic in cutting that run in half. It just seems like an odd progression to me (when N2 is supposed to be a more advanced plan). This is the first time I ever really looked at those plans, so I had questions. 

[runaways]

Jun 5, 2014 10:12:39 GMT -5 clseale said:

Jun 5, 2014 10:03:39 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

I maxed out at 36 miles for my first (and currently my only) marathon and finished in 4:38.  If I remember correctly McMillian said I could finish in around 4:20.  So, I think the mileage is enough to get through the marathon, although I wasn't smiling.  At the time I wasn't really ready to tackle 40-50 mile weeks.

But novice 1 DOES peak at 40 mpw. That's what seems odd to me. Why does it peak at a higher mpw than N2? N1 follows the rule of the mid-week longish run being 1/2 of your long run distance, (which I'm a big fan of).

My question was regarding the fact the novice 2 is supposed to be more advanced, but it has three 5s and a 20 as the top week. I was curious if the only difference really was the pace runs. I like pace runs a lot, but it would seem to make sense that you would keep that 10 miler, but perhaps make 4 of those miles pace miles. I'm failing to see the logic in cutting that run in half. It just seems like an odd progression to me, and this is the first time I ever really looked at those plans, so I had questions. 

I never actually compared the weekly mileage on these. Maybe this is why DH finished 25 minutes ahead of me in my first/his only full...hmmmmmm. I agree though, I know it can be done because I've done it, but I kind of think that if you can't do a 40+ mile week, you're probably actually not very prepared for a marathon.

[cinco]

I used HH Novice for marathons 2 & 3 (my first was with a training group) and liked it. I finished in 3:50 and 3:42, which was pretty much in line with what McMillan predicted for me each time. I remember my longest weekday run being 8, and probably maxed around 40 mpw.

[cinco]

I never read the novice plan 2 as being harder than novice 1. I thought they were just 2 variations of a beginning plan. A step up would be the Intermediate. Maybe I should go back and read what he writes sometime

[clseale]

Jun 5, 2014 10:20:11 GMT -5 cinco said:

I never read the novice plan 2 as being harder than novice 1. I thought they were just 2 variations of a beginning plan. A step up would be the Intermediate. Maybe I should go back and read what he writes sometime

This is the first line on his website, and my only experience with either plan. LOL 
"HERE IS MY NOVICE 2 PROGRAM, a slight step upwards in difficulty from Novice 1."

MILLIONS of people use these plans, so obviously they are adequate. I honestly just never looked at them before, so I was surprised when I did. It just wasn't what I was expecting. 

ETA: I agree with you, Cinco. They seem to just be different, rather than one being harder than the other. 

[cinco]

Jun 5, 2014 10:23:41 GMT -5 clseale said:

Jun 5, 2014 10:20:11 GMT -5 cinco said:

I never read the novice plan 2 as being harder than novice 1. I thought they were just 2 variations of a beginning plan. A step up would be the Intermediate. Maybe I should go back and read what he writes sometime

This is the first line on his website, and my only experience with either plan. LOL 
"HERE IS MY NOVICE 2 PROGRAM, a slight step upwards in difficulty from Novice 1."

MILLIONS of people use these plans, so obviously they are adequate. I honestly just never looked at them before, so I was surprised when I did. It just wasn't what I was expecting. 

ETA: I agree with you, Cinco. They seem to just be different, rather than one being harder than the other. 

I just looked too. I think they are switched around. Novice 1 used to be Novice 2. I know I didn't do 10's mid week when I did the Novice 1. The Intermediate looks right with 1 & 2. Weird.

[lb2006]

Jun 5, 2014 10:17:37 GMT -5 cinco said:

I used HH Novice for marathons 2 & 3 (my first was with a training group) and liked it. I finished in 3:50 and 3:42, which was pretty much in line with what McMillan predicted for me each time. I remember my longest weekday run being 8, and probably maxed around 40 mpw.

Same here - minus the finishing times & all

(SLIGHTLY slower here - ha!!!)

[gt7301b]

Jun 5, 2014 10:12:39 GMT -5 clseale said:

Jun 5, 2014 10:03:39 GMT -5 gt7301b said:

I maxed out at 36 miles for my first (and currently my only) marathon and finished in 4:38.  If I remember correctly McMillian said I could finish in around 4:20.  So, I think the mileage is enough to get through the marathon, although I wasn't smiling.  At the time I wasn't really ready to tackle 40-50 mile weeks.

But novice 1 DOES peak at 40 mpw. That's what seems odd to me. Why does it peak at a higher mpw than N2? N1 follows the rule of the mid-week longish run being 1/2 of your long run distance, (which I'm a big fan of).

My question was regarding the fact the novice 2 is supposed to be more advanced, but it has three 5s and a 20 as the top week. I was curious if the only difference really was the pace runs. I like pace runs a lot, but it would seem to make sense that you would keep that 10 miler, but perhaps make 4 of those miles pace miles. I'm failing to see the logic in cutting that run in half. It just seems like an odd progression to me (when N2 is supposed to be a more advanced plan). This is the first time I ever really looked at those plans, so I had questions. 

Ahh, I see what you are talking about now.  I agree it is weird that Novice 1 has more miles than Novice 2.

This is also in the description:
"If you have been running for a year or more and have run a number of races from 5-K to the half marathon, you might want to consider Novice 2, although many experienced runners also favor Novice 1, because of the (relatively) gentle way it prepares you to run 26 miles 385 yards."

[clseale]

This thread made me realize that I got to marathon 6 before I actually followed anyone's plan. LOL! I religiously followed Pfitz. I felt like I followed a plan for marathon 4, but that included taking a plan that peaked at 48, and bumping it up to 62 mpw. Actually, I think I'm going that route again, this time around. I never realize what a terrible rule follower I am. 




ETA: gt7301b, after looking at them closer, N1 (with your variation of the two 20s), is very similar to what I did for #2. I rarely ran more than twice a week for my first one, so we'll just pretend that didn't happen. 

[sassystace]

Thanks everyone for your input! I think Novice 2 seems like a better fit for me and my schedule. I will also turn the week 13 - 19 miler into a 20 miler so I get two 20 milers in there. I can always fall back to the Novice 1 if 2 seems like too much.

@vtcupcake I am planning on joining in on the Marathon Monday post soon, I am just getting "ready". Baby steps. Squeeee!

[gt7301b]

Poor sassystace, I hope we didn't confuse you too much.

My takeaway from this.... Run a couple 20 milers, have fun and worry about plan specifics for marathon 2 or 6

[AAM2012]

If you have the time and motivation, I HIGHLY recommend the Hansons running method/plan. I was able to run my first marathon with a 4:10 time and that was with unfavorable (hot!) weather conditions.