yet another sleep thread, cio questions

[sneetch]

DS (4 months) will now only sleep in our bed with one of us in it or in our arms.  I know some of this is the 4 month wakeful that we have to get through, but H travels a lot and I refuse to go to bed at 7:30 when the baby is tired and I can't hold him all night because I still have to prep for the next day.  H and I are considering sleep training over 4th of July weekend.  I just ordered the Ferber book to fully understand the program, but if you did CIO:

1.  How old was your child?
2.  How long did they actually cry (like minutes, hours, all night, etc.)?
3.  If it worked, how long did it take (days, weeks, months)?  Or did it never work?
4.  Any advice?

Thank you!

[arch01]

We did it for naps-but DS was right at 5m old. He cried for <20 minutes the first day and progressively less after that. By day 3 we were good.

All I can say is earplugs, a glass of beer/wine (if you drink), and potentially going outside to a patio/porch are all things that are going to cross your mind and are all good ideas if you don't do well with the crying.

Is he in a crib otherwise? What other things have you tried to get him to sleep? There may be a solution that might spare you some tears.

[countthestars]

I think we did it around 7 months.

I think it was like 1 hour, 45 minutes, 30 minutes, 5 minutes. After 4 days she pretty consistently went down away with minimal fussing (but not really crying) or she still sometimes ate to sleep but didn't cry when I put her down.

She didn't STTN right away from there. I still got up to nurse 1x per night (or bottle 1x per night) until she was closer to 10 months. Mostly because it was easier than trying to do CIO in the MOTN. Then one day she just started sleeping through.

Read the book - it's super helpful in understanding the WHY. Have your H read it to, or summarize the key points. It's important for you to both be on the same page.

[sneetch]

Jun 18, 2014 8:54:46 GMT -5 arch01 said:

We did it for naps-but DS was right at 5m old. He cried for <20 minutes the first day and progressively less after that. By day 3 we were good.

All I can say is earplugs, a glass of beer/wine (if you drink), and potentially going outside to a patio/porch are all things that are going to cross your mind and are all good ideas if you don't do well with the crying.

Is he in a crib otherwise? What other things have you tried to get him to sleep? There may be a solution that might spare you some tears.

Thanks!  He was in the crib since about week 8.  I would swaddle him and nurse him to sleep and he would do great.  In the last three weeks, he's been up throughout the night.  I blame myself because he used to sleep until about 3:30 then it was easier to just nurse him in our bed so he'd fall right back to sleep.  Now that's the only place he seems to want to sleep.  We've tried swaddling (with arms in and out), rocking, nursing, giving him a bottle instead, white noise, early bedtime, late bedtime.  I'm open to suggestions though!  I am not looking forward to this, but am also a little lost.

[ssmjlm]

1. How old was your child? We did it for going to sleep at 5.5m.  We then did it to night wean at 9m.

2. How long did they actually cry (like minutes, hours, all night, etc.)? First night was almost a hour, it got less each night.  She went through a period for a couple months were she would still cry when we put her down, but for 5-10mins.

3. If it worked, how long did it take (days, weeks, months)? Or did it never work? For going down, it got better after a few days, for nightweaning, it worked after 3ish days.

4. Any advice? Checks didn't work for us.  We tried that the first night and it made her worse.  Also make sure to COMMUNICATE with your DH if he is going to do checks.  DH picked E up the first time and I'm like WTF are you doing!  We don't negotiate with the terrorist!!!!

namasteak I preferred Ferber to Weissbluth and I read parts in both.

[shelbyann]

Related Q: is there a more recent version of the Ferber book than this one? (2006) www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403101785&sr=8-1&keywords=ferber (Or does it matter?)

[soozy87]

Jun 18, 2014 8:49:33 GMT -5 sneetch said:

DS (4 months) will now only sleep in our bed with one of us in it or in our arms.  I know some of this is the 4 month wakeful that we have to get through, but H travels a lot and I refuse to go to bed at 7:30 when the baby is tired and I can't hold him all night because I still have to prep for the next day.  H and I are considering sleep training over 4th of July weekend.  I just ordered the Ferber book to fully understand the program, but if you did CIO:

1.  How old was your child?
2.  How long did they actually cry (like minutes, hours, all night, etc.)?
3.  If it worked, how long did it take (days, weeks, months)?  Or did it never work?
4.  Any advice?

Thank you!

1. 6 months, 1 week

2. Not sure exactly, I would guess around 45 min on night one, maybe 10 night 2.

3. 2 days

4. Go somewhere where you can't here them cry. Have a heart of stone. Things got SO much better for us when we did it. I don't know that it would have worked for us sooner. We did several new things at the same time and I think it just worked out that it was the right combo at the right time.

[ladygrey]

1. 9 months
2. 40 minutes the first night, 20 minutes the second night, 10 minutes the third night, and by the fourth night it was less than a minute of just fussing
3. 4 nights of Ferber checks and then she started STTN
4. Have your DH do the checks if it's too hard for you to handle; drink some wine, and find a good show/movie to watch to distract you.

The first few nights are hard, but it's totally worth it in the end - we are all sleeping so much better now, and I wish we had done it sooner than 9 months. Good luck!

[ktw]

1. How old was your child? 4.5 months

2. How long did they actually cry (like minutes, hours, all night, etc.)? The first night, she "cried" for about 90 minutes at bedtime and about 2.5 hours MOTN. I put "cried" in quotation marks because most of the time she was just kind of whining, to the point where we didn't even do many checks, because we didn't feel like she was really upset enough to warrant them, and that doing so might disturb her falling asleep within the next few minutes. The second night she didn't cry at all. After that, MOTN was great until around 7 months. She went from 6-8 wakeups per night to one, and I would feed her, lay her back down and walk out, and she'd go right to sleep. Getting her to stop crying at bedtime took longer. She cried for some period of time before bed for about 6 weeks, but she was sleeping so well at night, we couldn't give up. Even now it varies, one week she'll cry for 5-10 minutes before bed, other weeks she settles down as soon as I leave the room. I've accepted that some amount of crying is probably going to happen, but it's short lived and she sleeps from 7pm-6am now, so I don't worry about it.

3. If it worked, how long did it take (days, weeks, months)? Or did it never work? It worked! 1 night to eliminate the million MOTN wakings down to 1, 6 weeks to go down easily at bedtime. When she was around 7 months, she started not going back down easily after her MOTN feeding, so I experimented with night weaning, and she took to it very easily. Then she went through a phase of waking up at 5am, which I never found a solution for, but now she sleeps until around 6am, and it's glorious!

4. Any advice? Be strong! If you are not consistent, it will not work. It is hard, there were many times that I cried while she cried, but in the end, I really think it was worth it for both of us. There are still many nights that I lay her down and as I'm leaving her room I'm just so happy to know that (most likely) she will sleep through the night and so will I!

[sneetch]

Jun 18, 2014 9:49:04 GMT -5 namasteak said:

Jun 18, 2014 9:29:42 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

1. How old was your child? We did it for going to sleep at 5.5m.  We then did it to night wean at 9m.

2. How long did they actually cry (like minutes, hours, all night, etc.)? First night was almost a hour, it got less each night.  She went through a period for a couple months were she would still cry when we put her down, but for 5-10mins.

3. If it worked, how long did it take (days, weeks, months)? Or did it never work? For going down, it got better after a few days, for nightweaning, it worked after 3ish days.

4. Any advice? Checks didn't work for us.  We tried that the first night and it made her worse.  Also make sure to COMMUNICATE with your DH if he is going to do checks.  DH picked E up the first time and I'm like WTF are you doing!  We don't negotiate with the terrorist!!!!

namasteak I preferred Ferber to Weissbluth and I read parts in both.

Even if we are pretty sure checks will just piss him off more?

Sorry to thread jack!

You're not thread jacking - these are good questions!

[ssmjlm]

Jun 18, 2014 9:49:04 GMT -5 namasteak said:

Even if we are pretty sure checks will just piss him off more?

Sorry to thread jack!

Weissbluth to me felt like your baby should be doing X, Y, Z, whereas Ferber read more like "your baby may be having some trouble sleeping, here is what I suggest."

I also read the troublesome tots blog a bit.

Honestly, even after I read books, blogs, etc, after trying checks and failing miserably we just said we're doing CIO and the time limit is 1 hour.  If it doesn't work after 1 hour, we'll re-visit methods and try again.

[Velar Fricative]

1. How old was your child?
5.5 months
2. How long did they actually cry (like minutes, hours, all night, etc.)?
23 minutes the first night. 17 the second night. 9 the third night. 48 seconds the fourth night. No crying after that. Since then, she's cried for a few minutes max and only very occasionally. 
3. If it worked, how long did it take (days, weeks, months)? Or did it never work?
4 nights.
4. Any advice?
I really took to heart Ferber's advice that while it's so so hard to listen to them cry, if you let them cry for a long time and then pick them up, the baby will have cried for nothing. So that is what really helped me focus on the prize. Also, please make sure you and your spouse are on the same page - I can't imagine this would have worked if DH wasn't on board. However, he knew himself and knew he would go in there and pick her up during the check-ins so I did all the check-ins, which I was fine with.

ETA: We did Ferber because the 4MW lasted from 3.5 months until we sleep-trained at 5.5 months. It got to the point where we just could no longer function with hourly wakeups, and both DH and I are adamant about not bedsharing, so that was not an option for us. Plus, she had never fallen asleep on her own in her crib - she always needed to be nursed and especially rocked to sleep and the rocking was getting much harder at 5.5 months too. I expected Ferber to maybe reduce her wakeups to a more manageable 2-3 wakeups a night but we were extremely lucky and since STing, she STTN more often than not. 

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 18, 2014 9:49:04 GMT -5 namasteak said:

Jun 18, 2014 9:29:42 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

1. How old was your child? We did it for going to sleep at 5.5m.  We then did it to night wean at 9m.

2. How long did they actually cry (like minutes, hours, all night, etc.)? First night was almost a hour, it got less each night.  She went through a period for a couple months were she would still cry when we put her down, but for 5-10mins.

3. If it worked, how long did it take (days, weeks, months)? Or did it never work? For going down, it got better after a few days, for nightweaning, it worked after 3ish days.

4. Any advice? Checks didn't work for us.  We tried that the first night and it made her worse.  Also make sure to COMMUNICATE with your DH if he is going to do checks.  DH picked E up the first time and I'm like WTF are you doing!  We don't negotiate with the terrorist!!!!

namasteak I preferred Ferber to Weissbluth and I read parts in both.

Even if we are pretty sure checks will just piss him off more?

Sorry to thread jack!

You really never know until you try. DD did get more wound up with the checks but she still never cried for very long overall. 

But what I would advise is whatever system you use (checks or no checks), don't be inconsistent and alternate between nights. Use whatever system you think would work better and stick with it. If that doesn't work, instead of doing the opposite system the next night, I'd postpone STing for at least another week. There's no method to my madness, this is just what I think would be best but feel free to ignore. I just think that with STing, it's best to be very very consistent.

[kategm]

Jun 18, 2014 10:20:28 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jun 18, 2014 9:49:04 GMT -5 namasteak said:

Even if we are pretty sure checks will just piss him off more?

Sorry to thread jack!

You really never know until you try. DD did get more wound up with the checks but she still never cried for very long overall. 

But what I would advise is whatever system you use (checks or no checks), don't be inconsistent and alternate between nights. Use whatever system you think would work better and stick with it. If that doesn't work, instead of doing the opposite system the next night, I'd postpone STing for at least another week. There's no method to my madness, this is just what I think would be best but feel free to ignore. I just think that with STing, it's best to be very very consistent.

Another thread-jack.

With Ferber, when you did the checks, did she ever stop crying when you went in there? You say she got more wound up - Does this mean the checks aren't necessarily to soothe them, but just so they know they're not alone? I haven't read the book yet (I've given myself a August 1st deadline for STing to see if she gets better on her own) but I always assumed babies calmed down when you went in and talked to them/patted them during STing. Is this not necessarily the case?

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 18, 2014 10:25:13 GMT -5 kategm said:

Jun 18, 2014 10:20:28 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

You really never know until you try. DD did get more wound up with the checks but she still never cried for very long overall. 

But what I would advise is whatever system you use (checks or no checks), don't be inconsistent and alternate between nights. Use whatever system you think would work better and stick with it. If that doesn't work, instead of doing the opposite system the next night, I'd postpone STing for at least another week. There's no method to my madness, this is just what I think would be best but feel free to ignore. I just think that with STing, it's best to be very very consistent.

Another thread-jack.

With Ferber, when you did the checks, did she ever stop crying when you went in there? You say she got more wound up - Does this mean the checks aren't necessarily to soothe them, but just so they know they're not alone? I haven't read the book yet (I've given myself a August 1st deadline for STing to see if she gets better on her own) but I always assumed babies calmed down when you went in and talked to them/patted them during STing. Is this not necessarily the case?

DD did not. I am sure that some babies do calm down a bit. I think she was just very frustrated that I wouldn't pick her up. It was heartbreaking and I hated the checks, but I wanted to follow the plan exactly. 

The checks are actually mostly for the parent's benefit! Some parents feel better with doing the checks. In an odd way, while I hated the checks I did want her to know I was there for her, if that makes sense.

[arch01]

Jun 18, 2014 9:18:41 GMT -5 sneetch said:

Jun 18, 2014 8:54:46 GMT -5 arch01 said:

We did it for naps-but DS was right at 5m old. He cried for <20 minutes the first day and progressively less after that. By day 3 we were good.

All I can say is earplugs, a glass of beer/wine (if you drink), and potentially going outside to a patio/porch are all things that are going to cross your mind and are all good ideas if you don't do well with the crying.

Is he in a crib otherwise? What other things have you tried to get him to sleep? There may be a solution that might spare you some tears.

Thanks!  He was in the crib since about week 8.  I would swaddle him and nurse him to sleep and he would do great.  In the last three weeks, he's been up throughout the night.  I blame myself because he used to sleep until about 3:30 then it was easier to just nurse him in our bed so he'd fall right back to sleep.  Now that's the only place he seems to want to sleep.  We've tried swaddling (with arms in and out), rocking, nursing, giving him a bottle instead, white noise, early bedtime, late bedtime.  I'm open to suggestions though!  I am not looking forward to this, but am also a little lost.

Does he roll? How close to 5m is he? Would you consider belly sleeping? We did it right at about 5 months, which is earlier than most suggest, but it worked wonders for us. We were OK with it as was our pedi.

[sneetch]

Jun 18, 2014 11:21:07 GMT -5 arch01 said:

Jun 18, 2014 9:18:41 GMT -5 sneetch said:

Thanks!  He was in the crib since about week 8.  I would swaddle him and nurse him to sleep and he would do great.  In the last three weeks, he's been up throughout the night.  I blame myself because he used to sleep until about 3:30 then it was easier to just nurse him in our bed so he'd fall right back to sleep.  Now that's the only place he seems to want to sleep.  We've tried swaddling (with arms in and out), rocking, nursing, giving him a bottle instead, white noise, early bedtime, late bedtime.  I'm open to suggestions though!  I am not looking forward to this, but am also a little lost.

Does he roll? How close to 5m is he? Would you consider belly sleeping? We did it right at about 5 months, which is earlier than most suggest, but it worked wonders for us. We were OK with it as was our pedi.

He is actually 3 days shy of 4 months, so I figure by 4th of July weekend, he'll be 4.5 months.  Do you think that's too early?  I was only thinking then because it's a long weekend.  He is still working on rolling back to belly.  Part of his wake ups are because he will roll onto his side and wake himself up.

[arch01]

Jun 18, 2014 11:34:08 GMT -5 sneetch said:

Jun 18, 2014 11:21:07 GMT -5 arch01 said:

Does he roll? How close to 5m is he? Would you consider belly sleeping? We did it right at about 5 months, which is earlier than most suggest, but it worked wonders for us. We were OK with it as was our pedi.

He is actually 3 days shy of 4 months, so I figure by 4th of July weekend, he'll be 4.5 months.  Do you think that's too early?  I was only thinking then because it's a long weekend.  He is still working on rolling back to belly.  Part of his wake ups are because he will roll onto his side and wake himself up.

This is a total personal opinion and comfort level. I just looked back at pictures on my phone and we did belly sleeping earlier than I remembered-it was at 3 months old. OOPS. My apologies for the bad info above.

He was pushing himself up fine and was turning his head side to side fine too. I do remember that much.

[ktw]

Jun 18, 2014 10:45:21 GMT -5 @this said:

Ditto x1,000 Velar Fricative about consistency and being on the same page with your spouse.

Also this helped me a lot too:

Jun 18, 2014 10:13:03 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I really took to heart Ferber's advice that while it's so so hard to listen to them cry, if you let them cry for a long time and then pick them up, the baby will have cried for nothing. So that is what really helped me focus on the prize. 

This was so true for me, too. And, after it only taking one night to eliminate all but 1 MOTN waking, that helped push me through the bedtime crying. I knew how amazing life could be if it worked, and dammit, I had to get there. When I would get upset, I'd just remind myself of that. Oh, and the fact that I COULD NOT go back to waking every 45-90 minutes and rocking her for an hour only to lay her down and have to start all over again. All of that was good motivation to stay consistent, for me, anyway.

[dcn]

1. How old was your child?

10 months. I tried when he was 6 months and I was not ready.

2. How long did they actually cry (like minutes, hours, all night, etc.)?

The worst was the first night motn, almost two hours.

3. If it worked, how long did it take (days, weeks, months)? Or did it never work?

After 5 or 6 nights he was sttn 10-11 hours.

4. Any advice?

Read the book, come up with a plan with your dh and stick to it. If you aren't 110% committed you will give in and all hat crying will be for nothing.

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 18, 2014 11:34:08 GMT -5 sneetch said:

Jun 18, 2014 11:21:07 GMT -5 arch01 said:

Does he roll? How close to 5m is he? Would you consider belly sleeping? We did it right at about 5 months, which is earlier than most suggest, but it worked wonders for us. We were OK with it as was our pedi.

He is actually 3 days shy of 4 months, so I figure by 4th of July weekend, he'll be 4.5 months.  Do you think that's too early?  I was only thinking then because it's a long weekend.  He is still working on rolling back to belly.  Part of his wake ups are because he will roll onto his side and wake himself up.

4+ months for STing is fine but comfort level will be different for everyone. I wanted to get as close to 6 months as possible and waited it out for as long as possible until I couldn't take it anymore at 5.5 months. But others start right after 4 months. Completely up to you.

[ktw]

Jun 18, 2014 11:34:08 GMT -5 sneetch said:

Jun 18, 2014 11:21:07 GMT -5 arch01 said:

Does he roll? How close to 5m is he? Would you consider belly sleeping? We did it right at about 5 months, which is earlier than most suggest, but it worked wonders for us. We were OK with it as was our pedi.

He is actually 3 days shy of 4 months, so I figure by 4th of July weekend, he'll be 4.5 months.  Do you think that's too early?  I was only thinking then because it's a long weekend.  He is still working on rolling back to belly.  Part of his wake ups are because he will roll onto his side and wake himself up.

Only you can say for sure. I honestly WISH I could have waited until she was 6 months old. Maybe then we wouldn't have had to deal with the crying at bedtime for so long. But this is what I did know:

1. My child was relying on me to put her back to sleep when she woke up. She could not put herself to sleep on her own.
2. She was needing me to do this every 45-90 minutes all night long, and taking crap naps.
3. We were at our breaking points. My H had strep throat and couldn't kick it. We could not handle the extreme sleep deprivation any longer.

So, we did what we had to do. If it's not that bad, and you think you'll feel more confident that he's ready when he's 6 months, and that will help you be more consistent, then by all means wait.

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2014 11:42:10 GMT -5 arch01 said:

Jun 18, 2014 11:34:08 GMT -5 sneetch said:

He is actually 3 days shy of 4 months, so I figure by 4th of July weekend, he'll be 4.5 months.  Do you think that's too early?  I was only thinking then because it's a long weekend.  He is still working on rolling back to belly.  Part of his wake ups are because he will roll onto his side and wake himself up.

This is a total personal opinion and comfort level. I just looked back at pictures on my phone and we did belly sleeping earlier than I remembered-it was at 3 months old. OOPS. My apologies for the bad info above.

He was pushing himself up fine and was turning his head side to side fine too. I do remember that much.

We did belly sleeping at 3 mo too. No regrets.

We also tried ST early at 5 months and 7 months but he couldn't self soothe well yet so it didn't take until 9 months. Ugh.

[Birdie]

So I'm planning to work on transitioning DS from the RNP to the crib this weekend. I have no idea how long this will take. Should we make sure he is fully transitioned to sleeping in his crib before we ST?

[Birdie]

Jun 18, 2014 11:56:41 GMT -5 @envinoveritas said:

Jun 18, 2014 11:42:10 GMT -5 arch01 said:

This is a total personal opinion and comfort level. I just looked back at pictures on my phone and we did belly sleeping earlier than I remembered-it was at 3 months old. OOPS. My apologies for the bad info above.

He was pushing himself up fine and was turning his head side to side fine too. I do remember that much.

We did belly sleeping at 3 mo too. No regrets.

We also tried ST early at 5 months and 7 months but he couldn't self soothe well yet so it didn't take until 9 months. Ugh.

This thought has crossed my mind when thinking about the RNP to crib transition. I'm glad I'm not alone.

[Velar Fricative]

Jun 18, 2014 12:07:10 GMT -5 Birdie said:

So I'm planning to work on transitioning DS from the RNP to the crib this weekend. I have no idea how long this will take. Should we make sure he is fully transitioned to sleeping in his crib before we ST?

Not necessarily. I don't mean to scare you, but DD did not transition well to the crib so that just compounded the sleep problems that already existed. If the transition goes well, awesome! Maybe you won't have to ST after all then.

[Birdie]

Jun 18, 2014 13:37:50 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jun 18, 2014 12:07:10 GMT -5 Birdie said:

So I'm planning to work on transitioning DS from the RNP to the crib this weekend. I have no idea how long this will take. Should we make sure he is fully transitioned to sleeping in his crib before we ST?

Not necessarily. I don't mean to scare you, but DD did not transition well to the crib so that just compounded the sleep problems that already existed. If the transition goes well, awesome! Maybe you won't have to ST after all then.

No that's ok! I didn't know if we should just tackle both at the same time or do one before the other. UGH putting him in the RNP is my biggest regret. I mean, I guess we don't have it too bad since he's not dependent on the swaddle and is only dependent on the paci to fall asleep. But still. It would be so much easier if he just slept flat like a normal person.