Is appetite learned?

[LauraMoser]

When I had DD1, the LC came in to help me nurse her for the first time. One of the things she had said, and has stuck with me, is that babies learn appetite. They know hunger of course, but that their appetite and just how much they will eat depends on what they're taught.

I have seen her theory proven true in two ways. First case, my cousin's little boy is 3.75 yo. He weighs 26 lbs. She was always concerned with him becoming overweight so much that when he started solids, she only allowed him to have so much. Now when he eats, he will take 4-5 bites and be done. My DD1 is just five months older than him and looks 2 years older. She is much taller (at least 6 inches, if not more) and she is 50 lbs. (She does not look 50 lbs at all! She is just built very solid)

Case two, my sister's little boy is 10 months old and weighs just 2 lbs less than my 20 month old. He will eat anything and everything you give him. Often I have seen him polish off a bowl of food containing the amount that both my girls eat combined. He can down a whole slice of Papa John's pizza (his favorite food according to sis). Sis has always fed him lots of food, and IMO, more than what is appropriate for his age. And as a side note, he weighs about 22.5 lbs. Yes, just 3.5 lbs less than the almost 4 yo above! He is not incredibly long either, just a little above average.

To me, these two cases prove the learned appetite theory true.

I was just wondering if anyone else had heard of this theory and if you believe it. Its just interesting to me that how you teach your kid to eat as an infant, and limiting/not limiting their intake can influence them so much.

[LauraMoser]

Jul 19, 2012 18:50:40 GMT -5 toriwc said:

I find this concept very interesting as I worry about DD's weight. She'll eat anything we put in front of her, so I do find that I am limiting her. She weighs 24.5 lbs, and is 10 months old. We've both struggled with our weight, so we really want her to be healthy. I'd like to do more research on this.

Tell me what you find!

At DD1's last checkup, the doc mentioned that she is a little heavy for her height, but again, she doesn't look it. She has always been very average for weight and height.

DD2 is actually smaller than DD1 was at her age. She seems so petite to me in stature. She is not stick thin though, much more proportionate to her size.

With both DDs, we have always let them eat until they're done. We've never made them clear their plates. If they come to one of us saying they're hungry, we'll give them a small snack. They have always eaten what I think are normal portions for their ages. Even when nursing/FFing, we always let them decide when they were finished. They've always had good growth and never any size concerns from Doctor, until now with DD1.

[honeybee]

Eh... My sister has two boys. The first one is thin as a rail and its a fight to get him to take more then 2-3 bites of anything (desserts/snacks included). The little one will gobble down half a pizza in ten minutes.

They were raised the same as kids when it came to food.

[Deleted]

I've bought into the baby-led weaning philosophy that it's my job to choose what to offer and DS's job to decide how much and what from that to eat. He doesn't eat much - good variety, but a small amount. He still very much prefers to breastfeed at 14 months. He's about 22 lb.

And he has a friend a month older than him that was also BF over a year, did BLW, and is just a huge child. Around 30 lb at 15 months and has always been off the charts big.

So I think a lot of growth and weight and appetite is genetic - nature over nuture - if the child is being offered appropriate foods and not encouraged to eat more.

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2012 19:31:01 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

I think if people saw a full length pic of me they would be really surprised at how much I weigh.

Said every poster on MM, every time weight comes up.

[bunch]

My kid is a huge eater. She eats shockingly more solids than her peers. She was 50/50 for weight and height at 9 mos, but I think that she's stretched since then. I don't think that I agree. I think some kids are eaters and some are not. Just like I probably eat more than many who weigh much more than I do. Genetics are huge.

[LauraMoser]

This is interesting: www.answers.com/topic/appetite

[bunch]

Ok, so appetite may be learned, but metabolism is still the luck of the draw.

[hannamaren]

My kid weighs 22lbs at 8mths. I dont think I am overfeeding her. She likes to eat. She cries for more formula.
Her cousins were the same 95th %ile for their first few years. Then they both stretched up and now at age 5 and 8 look like they never eat. The older one has legs skinnier than most kids arms.
I would never limit the amount of food a baby/toddler eats. Offer foods that are good for them and if carrots make them fat, it will even out with activity. Obviously avoid sugar, etc.

And growing up, I was a little chubby (normal for a kid) and my sister was a beanpole that ate and ate and ate

[ijack]

I would agree to a certain extent. I fully believe that E's eating problems started at birth when she was forced to eat every 3 hours regardless of hunger signs. And it continued for months because we were never allowed to let her go long periods of time without eating because of her weight. She was over 3 years old until she really understood what hungry was, and I'm still not convinced she knows what full feels like.

[Deleted]

DS eats constantly throughout the day and he's 23lbs at 13mos. He's 98th percentile for height and 70s for weight. I really don't think you can overfeed kids until they get older. These days, DS refuses to sit still for more than a few minutes since he loves running around. This and the fact that he only gained two pounds since he started walking at 10.5mos makes me confident that he burns through all of the food he eats.

Also, I have learned that for my DS, if veggies or fruit in regular bite sized form isn't appealing he will still eat them in purée form. I actually think some, like my kid, are just picky about texture and aren't ready for regular food 24/7. Mine only drinks WCM now and he can range from 10-20oz for the day, so he needs to eat a lot to fuel all that running.

[h]

I would buy that there is some aspect of appetite that is learned, but I think there are other factors that play into it as well.

DS1 eats an astounding amount of food. He is always starving. At one point his school asked me to send him additional snacks because he would eat the lunch and two snacks provided--which satiated every other kid in his class--and still complain that his stomach hurt from hunger. We have never made him eat anything, encouraged him to clean his plate, done the " just one more bite" thing, or any of that. He has just always been a big eater. He is 75% for height and 50% for weight (he is 44 lbs. at one month shy of 5), so he doesn't have weight issues. He is just a really hungry kid with a high metabolism.

DS2 is a tiny little thing, and some days I feel like he barely eats. He is like 40% for height and 25% for weight. He has always been smaller than his brother--he was a pound smaller at birth. We have not approached food any differently with him, but he has always eaten less than DS1 and been pickier.

[Deleted]

OP, have you ever looked at the growth charts from the CDC? Your 10mo old nephew, at 22lbs, is only in the 50th percentile. Your sister has an average sized baby boy: www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41c017.pdf

OTOH, your 4yo DD is in the high 90s percentile for her weight and age: www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41c022.pdf

[beaver12]

I have a 35 month old DD who is tall and skinny. She's about 32 pounds and eats like a bird. My 12 month old DS eats well, is off the charts for height, and weighs 24 pounds. Both were EBF ( no bottles) and raised the same in regards to solids. Every kid is different IMO. I do think kids can learn to over eat, just like adults, but I don't think the size of the child is always an indicator.

[starlily]

We EFF from 3mos & started purees at 6mos, and table food at a year. We offer her a wide variety of foods & let her eat the amount she wants. Sometimes she's a super strong eater with a seemingly bottomless pit for a stomach. Other times it's just a couple bites & she's done.

My goal, based on my own experience of getting fat only after my mom decided to restrict my food, is to try to instill a sense of healthy moderation in DD.

She's 18mos & 22lbs.

[gretchenindisguise]

My kid weighed in at a whopping 27 lbs at her 3 yr appointment today.

We've never limited her food. Always offered a huge variety. I breastfed for a year.

Theory disproved!

[Deleted]

Oh and here's the baby girl growth chart for birth through 36mos if you were curious: www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41c018.pdf

[LauraMoser]

Thanks choco for those charts. For some reason, I was having troubles finding them. They put things into perspective a little better.

Maybe DD1 is just huge for her age all around. Her height has her in the high 90s too.

According to that chart then, my cousin's second boy barely shows up on the charts at all. He's on the smaller side as well, but definitely long. So maybe its that I'm seeing him next to sis's boy and they seem so much different in size for just a month difference in age. Also, nephew is a lot bigger than my niece, who is actually a month older than him.

I agree with a lot of the responses that say appetite has a lot to do with nature as well. But there are just some babies I've seen that definitely prove nurture can be a big part of it as well. And the definitions of appetite from one source to the next vary quite a bit, which is also interesting to me.

[anna7602]

I've never heard of this, but am willing to consider the theory. I've always just let DD eat whenever she wants, from the time she was breastfeeding until now, as long as the options were healthy. She was a huge chunker of a baby- hit 20 lbs. at age 4 months- but then got long and lean as she became more active. Until she hit the terrible 2s and became a bit more combative about things, she ate just about anything you fed her and was what I consider to be a good eater. I figured there was no point in limiting snacks (fruit, etc.) since she was super active and seemed like she needed them to keep going. Snacks also didn't interfere with her appetite at family meal times. In short, she was pretty much game for eating any time and I obliged her.

At this point in the game (age 4), I probably overdo it with ice cream and pastries when we're out and about, but a life without treats would be very sad. I was super hard core when she was younger about limiting treats so she wouldn't think the whole world was one big ice cream truck and I think she gets the concept now that a treat is just that, not a replacement for a meal. She is probably about 35 lbs. now or a little more since last being weighed at the pedi's office (February), which is completely in the normal range for her height.

ETA: I do sometimes encourage her to take a few more bites at meal time when she says she's done because at this age, she gets distracted easily and wants to leave the table to do something else. Or I save what's on her dinner plate and let her finish it 45 minutes later when she suddenly says she's hungry again. I have a decent sense now of what DD needs to eat to not wake up in the middle of the night later complaining of hunger (which she has done on occasion). I've gotten the side eye from one friend at least for "force feeding my child" (asking her to take one or two more bites before she leaves the dinner table) and from another friend for the saving dinner thing instead of telling her there's one designated time to eat. I figure I know my kid best, but who knows.

[SusanBAnthony]

I let my kids eat until they are full, but they don't get all-you-can eat of all the foods of the meal. Like if we are having tofu, green beans, and rice, they get one serving of rice. As many beans as they want, and either one serving of tofu if they have already eaten a lot of protein, or more if they haven't had much that day.

Generally, it's all you can eat veggies, all you came at fruit within reason, all you can eat healthy protein (not cheese) within reason, and limits on most other things.

The thing is, if they are really still hungry they will down a cucumber and 4 carrots. If they aren't, they won't. But I promo you, if I had put another bowl of rice in front of them, they would have eaten the whole thing.

[SusanBAnthony]

Also, as an adult, I do think it is learned. When I get in the habit of counting calories, I can eat way less and feel satisfied. When I have been eating more I feel hungry more. I don't know if it is a mental thing, or my stomach gets stretched out, or what, but I have noticed it. Anyone else notice as an adult?

[Mrs.Syntax]

Jul 19, 2012 21:04:33 GMT -5 ijack said:

I would agree to a certain extent. I fully believe that E's eating problems started at birth when she was forced to eat every 3 hours regardless of hunger signs. And it continued for months because we were never allowed to let her go long periods of time without eating because of her weight. She was over 3 years old until she really understood what hungry was, and I'm still not convinced she knows what full feels like.

This is interesting... we had to do the same with DD when she was a newborn. She'd only nurse for 5 minutes because she wasn't really that hungry. To this day, she couldn't care less about eating and I know she doesn't eat until she is full. She's one of "those" kids who takes 3-4 bites and is done with a meal.

I have never limited how much she eats. I'm not sure if I agree with the appetite theory.

[anna7602]

Jul 20, 2012 6:45:59 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Also, as an adult, I do think it is learned. When I get in the habit of counting calories, I can eat way less and feel satisfied. When I have been eating more I feel hungry more. I don't know if it is a mental thing, or my stomach gets stretched out, or what, but I have noticed it. Anyone else notice as an adult?

Not really. I eat when I am hungry and try to plan ahead so that I'm not just sticking whatever is around in my mouth when I am about to pass out from hunger. The only times I notice a real difference in my eating habits is when I am traveling a lot and don't have as much control over my schedule or over the kinds of foods available to me. Then, I pretty much eat like crap. But, if I am home and in my routine, I don't feel like I need to be counting calories. I have a pretty good sense of how much I need to cook/eat to feel full. And I also know to ramp up my workout routine if I know I am going to have a week full of birthday dinners for friends or work events or something unusual like that. It's when the unusual lasts a little longer- like a long vacation or when I went from working in an office to working at home or moving abroad- that I have some trouble, but then I eventually get a grasp on it and go back to normal.

[thumper55]

both DS (4) and DD (2) have big apetites. I offer them plenty of food until they stop eating. I want them to grow to their full potential.

DS and DD were both pretty chubby as babies. After 2 years old hit and they were more active, they are both well within normal weights.

DS is now a solid 47 lbs and DD is about 26 lbs