KLM vs. Lufthansa

[more adventurous]

If you had two comparable overseas flights to choose from, which would you choose between KLM and Lufthansa? I'm talking 14+ hour flights in economy. I'm not sure if one or the other has significantly better customer service and/or more comfortable seats (my main concern).

On KLM we would have to pay to upgrade our seats in order to sit together. (A "preferred" seat which is just closer to the front of the plane is $40. Exit row is $68.) On Lufthansa, if I want to reserve seats ahead of time it's $35 just for a normal seat. Even with the exit row choice on KLM, those tickets are still about $100 less/pp than Lufthansa.

Speaking of, another thing I'm not sure about is exit rows on international flights. Will we freeze? Will tons of people congregate there since we'll be near the restroom? It's been a long time since I've flown internationally so I'm just being indecisive. Any insight is welcome.

[emilyinchile]

I voted KLM on price. I don't think the two airlines are significantly different and usually hear good things about KLM.

Sit in the exit row and just bring an extra sweater and good socks. I wouldn't worry about people congregating too much, especially during the night, which is when I personally would care more.

[GilliC]

Neither is a bad choice. I've generally had better experiences flying Lufthansa, but I've been accumulating Star Alliance miles, so I've flown a lot more long-haul Lufthansa flights than KLM. My last long-haul KLM wasn't bad, but there were a few minor details that put Lufthansa ahead in my book. It could just be the route I was flying and the plane was due for an overhaul. So if the KLM flight was cheaper, I wouldn't have a problem booking it.

A huge factor for me would be the aircraft on those particular routes. If I was with my SO and could fly in a 2-4-2 configuration over a 3-4-3 or 3-3-3, and there was a 2-seat row available, that would be a huge incentive to me.

As for the exit row, they do tend to be colder, but I find this is more affected by the overall cabin temperature. I've been on flights where I stripped down to my thin short-sleeved top and was still unbearably hot, and I've been on flights where I was shivering in a thick fleece under a blanket. Since exit rows do tend to be a bit cooler, be sure to wear or bring a thicker layer just in case. There will be a crowd around the lavs. Whether this is annoying is up to you. Personally it doesn't bother me, because I just stretch out and take up my space and let the lurkers lurk around me.

Do note that the window seat in an exit row can sometimes be cramped if the door is right there, since it protrudes into the cabin. Check seatguru.com for the particular plane you're looking at. They usually flag this if it's the case. Honestly, I'd rather have a regular seat than a protruding-door exit window, because I like to be able to stretch my legs. I can put my feet under the seat in front of me, and I'm not tall enough to bang my knees on the seat, whereas with the exit door, I can't really stretch straight out, since the door is there. I guess if my SO was in the seat next to me, it would be easier to stretch at an angle into his space, but all of my exit door experiences were seated next to strangers.

[alleinesein]

Are they part of the same FF programs? I'd go with whoever gave me the best option for accruing FF miles.

I've done exit row seats on long hauls and unless you are in a premium economy cabin with wider seats they are MISERABLE While the leg room is nice the seats tend to be 1-2 inches narrower than the rest of the coach seats and the arm rest is stationary. At least with a non-exit row you can lift up the arm rest for a bit more breathing room if you are seated next to family/friends. A lot of exit rows also happen to be bulkhead seats so you lose the ability to store your carry on under the seat in front of you and depending on the aircraft you may not have overhead storage for your bags because some of them are used for emergency equipment.

[emilyinchile]

Jul 2, 2014 17:12:20 GMT -5 alleinesein said:

Are they part of the same FF programs? I'd go with whoever gave me the best option for accruing FF miles.

I've done exit row seats on long hauls and unless you are in a premium economy cabin with wider seats they are MISERABLE While the leg room is nice the seats tend to be 1-2 inches narrower than the rest of the coach seats and the arm rest is stationary. At least with a non-exit row you can lift up the arm rest for a bit more breathing room if you are seated next to family/friends. A lot of exit rows also happen to be bulkhead seats so you lose the ability to store your carry on under the seat in front of you and depending on the aircraft you may not have overhead storage for your bags because some of them are used for emergency equipment.

How tall are you? I'm just curious because at 5'9", I'll gladly take the loss of width in favor of the extra leg room, but that's a good point in case OP would rather have hip space than leg space.

[alleinesein]

Jul 2, 2014 18:19:26 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

Jul 2, 2014 17:12:20 GMT -5 alleinesein said:

Are they part of the same FF programs? I'd go with whoever gave me the best option for accruing FF miles.

I've done exit row seats on long hauls and unless you are in a premium economy cabin with wider seats they are MISERABLE While the leg room is nice the seats tend to be 1-2 inches narrower than the rest of the coach seats and the arm rest is stationary. At least with a non-exit row you can lift up the arm rest for a bit more breathing room if you are seated next to family/friends. A lot of exit rows also happen to be bulkhead seats so you lose the ability to store your carry on under the seat in front of you and depending on the aircraft you may not have overhead storage for your bags because some of them are used for emergency equipment.

How tall are you? I'm just curious because at 5'9", I'll gladly take the loss of width in favor of the extra leg room, but that's a good point in case OP would rather have hip space than leg space.

5'10 with over 36 inches of leg.  My hip bones are wider than the bulkhead seats on Virgin Atlantic.  Fat can be squished around but bones cant.  I spent 12+ hours either standing in the aisle or sitting sideways because my bones didnt fit in the seat and I had no option to switch seats.  Freak of nature over here   Giant hip bones and a freakishly large rib cage. 

[Deleted]

If you're a light sleeper and want to sleep on the flight, I'd stay away from the bathroom and/or any galley area. I've ended up in bulkhead seats on a few redeye flights and my "Yay legroom!" attitude quickly turned to woe. You'd be surprised at how many people get up to pee in the middle of the night (leading to a constant chorus of Door click. WHOOSH! Door click.) And apparently some flight attendants like to chat with each other all night 

If I'm not trying to sleep, I am solidly "Yay legroom!" even if the entire plane is congregating near me.

[emilyinchile]

alleinesein ok, that sounds completely awful. You poor thing!

[travelingturtle]

I haven't flown KLM in the past two years so take this with a grain of salt. I really loved my last Lufthansa flight. It's actually converted me from DL (part of this has to do with there being better options in Germany (obviously) than Delta, but also because their service was a lot better).

BUT - is it a non-stop flight? If you stop, are you stopping in Amsterdam or Frankfurt/Munich? I haven't been to Munich's airport in a while, but I really love Amsterdam's airport.

[more adventurous]

Thanks for the insight, everyone.

GilliC Thankfully, they're both 2-4-2. I did check SeatGuru and they didn't note anything about the protruding exit door, so hopefully that's not the case. If it is though, I'll probably just take that seat and lounge into H's space if I need to, like you suggested.

alleinesein Good point about the hip room. I didn't really think about that. My H is 6'4" which was my main reason for considering the exit row. We've chosen it a million times before and been ok with the width, but not for this long of a haul. It does really suck that the arm rests are immobile though! Ugh. Also, they are both part of different FF programs but one links with Delta and the other with United (I think), and we don't really fly much of either of those, so I guess it's not a huge deal either way. Ideally I would like to have AA miles but I don't think it's worth the extra $300/pp just to fly American.

travelingturtle No, it's not non-stop. On KLM we would stop in Amsterdam and on Lufthansa we would stop in Frankfurt. Did you fly standard economy on your Lufthansa flight? If so, was space an issue for you?

I'm leaning toward going with KLM + exit row and hoping for the best. I'm pretty sure my H will be miserable otherwise. Good points about people getting up in the middle of the night and making it harder to sleep but hopefully if I bring a sweater/blanket/noise reduction headphones/sleep mask, it won't be so bad?

[travelingturtle]

With both we flew standard economy. LH only recently did upgradable economy seats for more space, which we have done with Delta before.

On both KLM and LH we had a kids with us (well, KLM we just had the one kid) and I thought both were fine space-wise. KLM may have been a little tighter, but it was a shorter flight and not the 2-4-2 set up iirc. We took the last row on LH and they ran out of food so they gave us food from Business class. Which is a plus and a minus. They also ran out of food for coach when my H flew them recently. Maybe that's a thing? Actually, now that I think of it, we were on a NW/KLM flight about 8 years ago from AMS to DTW and they didn't run out of food but said they were going to stop serving food to people past a certain row because of the turbulence. We were in the rows that got served so don't know if it those people ever got fed - but there was no turbulence. So - um - bring snacks!

[PinkSquirrel]

I haven't flown Lufstansa in a few years, but I really enjoyed them. I'm 100% biased because I just got home from Tanzania and a 12hr30min flight on KLM and the seats were not comfortable. About 2-3 hrs in my back was on fire and I was shoving pillows and blankets behind my back to try to make it bearable. The seats on my Delta flights between Amesterdam and home were perfectly comfortable, so I know it's not just that I was cranky about being on and off planes for 36 hrs.

[more adventurous]

Jul 12, 2014 19:19:36 GMT -5 PinkSquirrel said:

I haven't flown Lufstansa in a few years, but I really enjoyed them. I'm 100% biased because I just got home from Tanzania and a 12hr30min flight on KLM and the seats were not comfortable. About 2-3 hrs in my back was on fire and I was shoving pillows and blankets behind my back to try to make it bearable. The seats on my Delta flights between Amesterdam and home were perfectly comfortable, so I know it's not just that I was cranky about being on and off planes for 36 hrs.

Well dang, this isn't reassuring at all! We ended up going with KLM so that we could book the exit row. Do you know what kind of plane you were on? I would assume it varies based on model and how recent they were updated? Hopefully. On the way back we're flying Delta though, so there's that...

[PinkSquirrel]

Jul 15, 2014 14:02:25 GMT -5 more adventurous said:

Jul 12, 2014 19:19:36 GMT -5 PinkSquirrel said:

Well dang, this isn't reassuring at all! We ended up going with KLM so that we could book the exit row. Do you know what kind of plane you were on? I would assume it varies based on model and how recent they were updated? Hopefully. On the way back we're flying Delta though, so there's that...

I just checked with my H and he thinks KLM were Airbus A330 Delta was Airbus A330-300, it's possible those are reversed though.  The KLM interior was old, you could still make sat phone calls.   The planes themselves were virtually identical as far as I was concerned, but the Delta interior was clearly newer.  

I would make sure to pack something in your carry on you can use for lumbar support, even just a piece of clothing etc.  Hopefully, you get a more recently updated plane and you don't have to worry about it!

[alleinesein]

Jul 15, 2014 14:02:25 GMT -5 more adventurous said:

Jul 12, 2014 19:19:36 GMT -5 PinkSquirrel said:

I haven't flown Lufstansa in a few years, but I really enjoyed them. I'm 100% biased because I just got home from Tanzania and a 12hr30min flight on KLM and the seats were not comfortable. About 2-3 hrs in my back was on fire and I was shoving pillows and blankets behind my back to try to make it bearable. The seats on my Delta flights between Amesterdam and home were perfectly comfortable, so I know it's not just that I was cranky about being on and off planes for 36 hrs.

Well dang, this isn't reassuring at all! We ended up going with KLM so that we could book the exit row. Do you know what kind of plane you were on? I would assume it varies based on model and how recent they were updated? Hopefully. On the way back we're flying Delta though, so there's that...

I'm sorry.  I got stuck on Delta last year from CDG to SLC.  I swear we were on the oldest plane in deltas fleet and it sucked!  They hadnt upgraded it yet and they still had the old school overhead tvs for movies.  No personal IFEs at all.  The armrests still had the ashtrays!!