According to ABC News, NYPD Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said that the gunman had dyed his hair red and claimed to be The Joker when apprehended by police.
According to ABC News, NYPD Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said that the gunman had dyed his hair red and claimed to be The Joker when apprehended by police.
According to ABC News, NYPD Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said that the gunman had dyed his hair red and claimed to be The Joker when apprehended by police.
Yes. According to the article, two federal law enforcement officers have confirmed this. Given that the movie is supposed to premiere in NYC tonight, I'm not at all surprised that he would be knowledgeable about the details, although I do think that having the police at the premiere is an overreaction.
Still, I think this puts the onus on the wrong place. The "get violence out of video games and movies" folks seem to pick up traction, when it's not right to blame them. If he wasn't familiar with the Batman universe, it would be something else. Or nothing.
I realize I'm a fan of the franchise and therefore not exactly impartial here, I am already feeling stabby about what I expect to be a broad discussion about violence in movies being a problem here. I won't argue with a straight face that I don't think anyone is influenced by such things, but I do think one has to have a certain predisposition to act in an extreme manner as a result of seeing one. I think that is particularly so when talking about something like Batman, which is flat out cartoonish.
I think the article is reaching for connections (e.g. the bulleted points).
I do think that the guy was probably too heavily invested in the anarchistic character of the Joker.
ETA: I'll just put this here, I had a moment of, "Please dear lord don't let this be (DH's ex-roommate)." He really loved all things batman/comic book, and was a self proclaimed anarchist. He's fallen off the grid the last year, and for a split second I was convinced it was him.
According to ABC News, NYPD Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said that the gunman had dyed his hair red and claimed to be The Joker when apprehended by police.
I'll just say this - if the above is true, and considering his apartment is booby-trapped to the hilt, I'd start checking other inmates for explosives in their innards - and perhaps immediately watch that movie for other possible parallels Mr. Doppleganger Joker might have attempted.
According to ABC News, NYPD Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said that the gunman had dyed his hair red and claimed to be The Joker when apprehended by police.
I am really flummoxed that anyone thinks this has anything to do with a) the Dark Knight or b) movie theaters. I was so confused when they were making clarifying statements and statements from WB this morning.
Yes. According to the article, two federal law enforcement officers have confirmed this. Given that the movie is supposed to premiere in NYC tonight, I'm not at all surprised that he would be knowledgeable about the details, although I do think that having the police at the premiere is an overreaction.
the announcement i heard on the radio not long ago was that they are having NYPDO at any movie theatre where TDKR is playing. now THAT is an overreaction.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
Still, I think this puts the onus on the wrong place. The "get violence out of video games and movies" folks seem to pick up traction, when it's not right to blame them. If he wasn't familiar with the Batman universe, it would be something else. Or nothing.
There are tons of studies linking violence in games and movies to kids' violence. It's not this specific Batman movie that's the problem, but overall there's a strong correlation.
However, I'll admit that those studies don't jive with the rates of actual violence decreasing in our country. We actually are safer than we were 20 years ago.
No, no, no. There is a huge controversy among media scholars on the impact of violence in the media on consumers. There is no easy answer. A =/= B. There are so many different questions that need to be examined when you're talking about violence in the media. It's not as simple as saying "There was a violent scene in this movie, and it caused Joe to become violent and/or aggressive". Anyone who tries to make it that simple is missing about 90% of the whole picture.
I personally fall on the side of media by itself does not cause violence. One of my favorite examples is of a boy in Birmingham that shot and killed police officers several years ago. The media tried to spin it as "He loved the video game Doom! He played Doom all the time! Video games are bad! They caused him to become violent and kill police!" Then the media interviewed my media psychology professor, who point blank asked them "Do you think the fact that he was molested by his grandfather might have anything to do with making him an angry young man?"
There's too many other outside factors that contribute to violence and aggression in people. IMO, you can't just look at one scene in a movie/TV show/video game and say "HA! That's why he/she did it!"
And when media gets all on that rant, it makes me ragey.
There are tons of studies linking violence in games and movies to kids' violence. It's not this specific Batman movie that's the problem, but overall there's a strong correlation.
However, I'll admit that those studies don't jive with the rates of actual violence decreasing in our country. We actually are safer than we were 20 years ago.
But there's also a ton of studies that have proven those links may not be accurate. As I said above, this is a huge controversy in media violence scholarship.
I need to dig up the study, but one looked at kids playing a really violent video game, and set it at an easy level. Then they had the kids play video golf, but set it to a maddeningly frustrating level. The kids were more aggressive after playing golf, leading researchers to conclude it was the frustration they experienced while playing the game, not the violence in the actual game, that caused the aggressive behavior afterwards.
In my opinion I think this movie need to be cancelled across the country. The movie is all about TERRORISM, MAYHEM, and shooting into crowds of people..... kinda gives people an idea to do somerthing like this. The unfortunant thing is that Warner Bros won't cancel it and there will be copycats (cause there always is) and more people will be injured. Stop the madness and cancel the fing movie!
followed up by: not for a day or two either for good, but it won't happen because of pure greed because they have to make up the money that they spent on making the movie. Sad very Sad.
Post by basilosaurus on Jul 20, 2012 14:52:54 GMT -5
Emily, thank you for that. I've been in more than one class that debated this, and I was the lone dissenter saying those studies don't necessarily prove a causation.
H mentions it on occasion, and I still dissented, but I finally gave into him when he said it was like not believing in global warming. Hence, my post. I basically just gave in a couple weeks ago. But, now you give me confidence that I wasn't being ridiculous and ignoring the science.
Emily, thank you for that. I've been in more than one class that debated this, and I was the lone dissenter saying those studies don't necessarily prove a causation.
H mentions it on occasion, and I still dissented, but I finally gave into him when he said it was like not believing in global warming. Hence, my post. I basically just gave in a couple weeks ago. But, now you give me confidence that I wasn't being ridiculous and ignoring the science.
I think the majority of people are always going to side with 'media causes violent/aggressive behavior', and there are a lot of studies to back that claim up. But, on the other hand, there's also a lot of studies that have started to move away from that claim.
I do media effects research, and I generally think that media isn't the only thing that effects behavior. I can put you in a lab and let you watch a sporting event, but the reality is that doesn't mimic real life. There's a multitude of other factors - environmental, behavioral, etc. that are going to influence your behavior, and media is just one part of that equation.
Post by basilosaurus on Jul 20, 2012 15:04:31 GMT -5
That's why I trust you. Please send me studies (or just basic recaps) so I can argue with H more effectively next time. It's all about me being right. Screw the violent little kiddies
Okay, there may or may not be evidence that violence in the media in aggregate causes violent behavior, but why is there any reason to believe that this movie specifically caused this incident?
Post by GailGoldie on Jul 20, 2012 15:21:26 GMT -5
Just an FYI for those that don't know batman well like I do bc my DH is a huge batman geek.
The joker has green hair not red Batman never uses a gun. Ever. Not that it has anything to do with this but. Still worth mentioning since so much gun talk.
I think our country needs to stop worrying about kids seeing a naked titty and worry about them watching and playing violent game and movies etc. It isn't normal to be so desensitized to such violence that you see in these games and movies ESP at such a young age. It scares me.
is there any reason to believe that this movie specifically caused this incident?
ummmmmm... Yes and no. As I alluded to in my first comment, the Joker is pure anarchy. Neither one side nor another just out there causing chaos. The other villains all portray other "undesirable" characteristics. Two Face - the duality of nature, etc.
So if you look at the under tone of what Batman (and most comics are) then yes, they could have had an influence of what happened.
Most likely, though? No, I don't think it did. The guy just took his shot at a time when he knew he'd hit the most targets. It could just as easily been The Hobbit later this year.
That's why I trust you. Please send me studies (or just basic recaps) so I can argue with H more effectively next time. It's all about me being right. Screw the violent little kiddies
I'll dig around this weekend and find the most recent stuff for you!
Just an FYI for those that don't know batman well like I do bc my DH is a huge batman geek.
The joker has green hair not redBatman never uses a gun. Ever. Not that it has anything to do with this but. Still worth mentioning since so much gun talk.
I think our country needs to stop worrying about kids seeing a naked titty and worry about them watching and playing violent game and movies etc. It isn't normal to be so desensitized to such violence that you see in these games and movies ESP at such a young age. It scares me.
He did wear a red hair wig when he went into see two face in the hospital.
At one point he also "let" the police capture him and sent them to building that was set with explosives.
Do I think the movie made him do it? Hell no. But the comparison are eery.
Just an FYI for those that don't know batman well like I do bc my DH is a huge batman geek.
The joker has green hair not redBatman never uses a gun. Ever. Not that it has anything to do with this but. Still worth mentioning since so much gun talk.
I think our country needs to stop worrying about kids seeing a naked titty and worry about them watching and playing violent game and movies etc. It isn't normal to be so desensitized to such violence that you see in these games and movies ESP at such a young age. It scares me.
He did wear a red hair wig when he went into see two face in the hospital.
At one point he also "let" the police capture him and sent them to building that was set with explosives.
Do I think the movie made him do it? Hell no. But the comparison are eery.
funny- i'm actually watching the movie right now and right at this part in the movie... "red wig" - sure, it's a golden red, normal looking red hair type wig... i wouldn't really call it something that someone would ever try to look like- b/c it's not something that the joker is known for at all - it's about 20 seconds of the movie... and it's not even that red.