Atheists: Obama Administration Out Of Line To Pray

[teflep]

The Council for Secular Humanism is attacking the Obama administration for Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack saying he prays for rain to end the nationwide draught.

“I get on my knees every day,” Vilsack said at the White House press briefing on Wednesday. “And I’m saying an extra prayer now. If I had a rain prayer or a rain dance I could do, I would do it.”

In a statement, Tom Flynn, the executive director of the Council for Secular Humanism, said Vilsack's mention of prayer "sends the wrong message to distraught farmers."

“[Praying] for rain? That’s not just government entangling itself with religion, that’s government publicly practicing it, and wallowing in superstition,” he said.

The full release is below:

Agriculture Secretary Out of Line to Pray for Rain, Says Council for Secular Humanism

Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack told reporters at the White House that he is praying for rain to end the drought parching 61 percent of the United States. “I get on my knees every day,” he said on July 18. “And I’m saying an extra prayer now. If I had a rain prayer or a rain dance I could do, I would do it.”

“The Obama Administration has been criticized by secular humanists for backpedaling on then-candidate Obama’s campaign pledge to reverse Bush-era policies that provide federal funding to religious charities that discriminate in hiring,” said Tom Flynn, executive director of the Council for Secular Humanism and editor of its journal Free Inquiry. “But praying for rain? That’s not just government entangling itself with religion, that’s government publicly practicing it, and wallowing in superstition.”

This summer’s prolonged drought, the worst in a quarter-century, is devastating crops and parching livestock. It may bring sharply higher food prices later this year.

“It sends the wrong message to distraught farmers when the Agriculture Secretary suggests that the best response is to pray,” said Flynn. “For a Cabinet official to recommend prayer as a solution or call attention to his own devotions may violate the Constitution’s prohibition against establishment of religion. Most important, though, is that prayer doesn’t work. But if you want to test the power of prayer yourself, consider this. Apparently Secretary Vilsack’s been praying for rain every day; how’s that working out?”
buzzfeed.com

(I know, buzzfeed, but I had to post something not CO related)

[basilosaurus]

I don't have as much a problem with this as I did with Rick Perry's plan last summer. It was their official plan to get people to pray for rain. No, that's fucking insane.

An individual admitting he doesn't have an answer and prays? That's fine with me. As long as it's not the actual answer to the problem.

[heightsyankee]

Yeah, I think the CHS is just looking for things to react to. As an Atheist, this doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, I think statements like this on the part of the secularists are part of what makes it seem that Atheists are anti-religion, versus just non believers.

[GailGoldie]

Jul 20, 2012 19:40:18 GMT -5 heightsyankee said:

As an Atheist, this doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, I think statements like this on the part of the secularists are part of what makes it seem that Atheists are anti-religion, versus just non believers.

I'm friends with an Athiest on FB who is constantly sharing and liking images that are very anti-religion... and stating that they are athiest groups, etc.... so, while you may not be anti-religion, there are many who call themselves athiests who are. It's pretty sad if you ask me - I'm all for people being atheists... but I don't understand when they spend so much time/energy/emotion caring about what others believe in.

[smock]

I don't see Vilsack recommending prayer; it's more like he's saying "we're really fucked and there's nothing we can do."

And thank goodness this is not CO related, because my first thought was they were mad that some gov't official was praying for the victims.

[heightsyankee]

Jul 20, 2012 19:42:14 GMT -5 GailGoldie said:

Jul 20, 2012 19:40:18 GMT -5 heightsyankee said:

As an Atheist, this doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, I think statements like this on the part of the secularists are part of what makes it seem that Atheists are anti-religion, versus just non believers.

I'm friends with an Athiest on FB who is constantly sharing and liking images that are very anti-religion... and stating that they are athiest groups, etc.... so, while you may not be anti-religion, there are many who call themselves athiests who are. It's pretty sad if you ask me - I'm all for people being atheists... but I don't understand when they spend so much time/energy/emotion caring about what others believe in.

Well, there are Christians who are hateful rotten bigots, too. We see a lot of their lovely FB posts cross posted here.

And I don't understand why I have to take Christian holidays off of school/work when there are other days I would rather take off. See what I did there? Atheists are defensive because we live in a world where Christianity, more than any other religion period, is constantly shoved down our throats.

ETA: and you said your friends with "AN Atheist," as in one person. So you are making your assumption based on this one person. Do you think that's fair?

[teflep]

Jul 20, 2012 19:44:56 GMT -5 heightsyankee said:

Jul 20, 2012 19:42:14 GMT -5 GailGoldie said:

I'm friends with an Athiest on FB who is constantly sharing and liking images that are very anti-religion... and stating that they are athiest groups, etc.... so, while you may not be anti-religion, there are many who call themselves athiests who are. It's pretty sad if you ask me - I'm all for people being atheists... but I don't understand when they spend so much time/energy/emotion caring about what others believe in.

Well, there are Christians who are hateful rotten bigots, too. We see a lot of their lovely FB posts cross posted here.

And I don't understand why I have to take Christian holidays off of school/work when there are other days I would rather take off. See what I did there? Atheists are defensive because we live in a world where Christianity, more than any other religion period, is constantly shoved down our throats.

ETA: and you said your friends with "AN Atheist," as in one person. So you are making your assumption based on this one person. Do you think that's fair?

To be fair, there are anti people on both sides. Some atheists can be anti-religion, just as some religious can be anti-gay. No one is saying all and no one is saying none are x or y.

[heightsyankee]

Jul 20, 2012 19:47:45 GMT -5 teflep said:

To be fair, there are anti people on both sides. Some atheists can be anti-religion, just as some religious can be anti-gay. No one is saying all and no one is saying none are x or y.

Oh, I completely agree. However, to my original point, being an Atheist shouldn't be defined as "being anti religion." It should be defined as "non believer." And then people have their peripheral belief system.

[earlgreyhot]

I don't have even the tiniest problem with this. Weather makes one feel powerless and human, and I think it's part of the human experience to pause, hope, and wish, for a given outcome in which one has no actual control over. Prayer is often the easiest way to describe that.

[teflep]

Jul 20, 2012 19:50:17 GMT -5 heightsyankee said:

Jul 20, 2012 19:47:45 GMT -5 teflep said:

To be fair, there are anti people on both sides. Some atheists can be anti-religion, just as some religious can be anti-gay. No one is saying all and no one is saying none are x or y.

Oh, I completely agree. However, to my original point, being an Atheist shouldn't be defined as "being anti religion." It should be defined as "non believer." And then people have their peripheral belief system.

Amen (or whatever)

[basilosaurus]

Goldie, what you think is anti-religion, and what I think is anti-religion are probably different.

Is it anti-religion to point out, as reeve did, that transubstantiation has literally no evidence for it and mounds of evidence against it?

Is it anti-religion to point out all the ways in which our government favors religion? see: christmas as a federal holiday and lousiana funding creationist schools.

Regardless, I'll reiterate that I have no problem with this guy's statement, and I have every problem with Perry's rally to pray for rain last summer.

[teflep]

I think tone also plays into it. As does constant repeat and mocking. ::shrugs::

[Deleted]

This atheist is rolling her eyes.

It's Vilsck's prerogative to pray. He's not calling for anyone else to do the same.

Just another group looking for something they can be publicly offended by.

[Deleted]

Jul 20, 2012 19:42:14 GMT -5 GailGoldie said:

Jul 20, 2012 19:40:18 GMT -5 heightsyankee said:

As an Atheist, this doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, I think statements like this on the part of the secularists are part of what makes it seem that Atheists are anti-religion, versus just non believers.

I'm friends with an Athiest on FB who is constantly sharing and liking images that are very anti-religion... and stating that they are athiest groups, etc.... so, while you may not be anti-religion, there are many who call themselves athiests who are. It's pretty sad if you ask me - I'm all for people being atheists... but I don't understand when they spend so much time/energy/emotion caring about what others believe in.

Are you for real?

Take a look at your FB feed someday and see how many images and posts you get a day that urge you to pray for someone or to thank God, worship God, keep God in our nation, whatever. I'll bet they outnumber your atheist friend 200 to one - and that's what she's reacting to. It gets sickening, all the preaching.

But I guess you don't find that waste of energy and emotion to be sickening.

[GailGoldie]

simmer down people - i never said that if you are an athiest you are anti-religion... i simply said that some are --- and until they define themselves as something else- there will always be people who define athiest as anti-religion bc that is what they have seen.

and no- i'm not friends with ONE athiest- i'm friends quite a few - but this one in particular loves to post shit like this.... and yes, it is very mean spirited - not just pointing stuff out.

I think it's sad for people to get so upset and angry over people doing what they feel is good for others... sure- the "you are going to hell b/c you don't believe" crap that people say/post is annoying and rude- just as the anti-religion stuff is.... but in general- if you see a post asking for prayers - you get angry?? that is sad.

[emmybean]

I'd like to see an example of a militant atheist being angry with people simply asking for prayers. Any time I've seen such a display, it's been a reaction to the ever expanding load of militant theist bullshit that is trotted across Facebook feeds from here to Timbuktu.

I'm one of the most live and let live, do what you feel atheists out there, and I still sometimes get extra eyerolly at some of the garbage that people see absolutely no problem posting over and over again over there.

[EllieArroway]

Jul 20, 2012 21:11:52 GMT -5 emmybean said:

I'd like to see an example of a militant atheist being angry with people simply asking for prayers. Any time I've seen such a display, it's been a reaction to the ever expanding load of militant theist bullshit that is trotted across Facebook feeds from here to Timbuktu.

I'm one of the most live and let live, do what you feel atheists out there, and I still sometimes get extra eyerolly at some of the garbage that people see absolutely no problem posting over and over again over there.

Yep. Honestly, I don't blame the "militant" atheists at all. Religion is constantly being shoved in our faces, and sometimes it's hard not to get angry about it. For the most part I don't care at all what or how a person believes, but sometimes something is done or said that pushes me over the edge and makes me want to go off on the next religious display I see.

As to the OP, I think this is a stupid thing to care about. So what if he prays? It's not like he can actually do anything to bring on the rain. It would be different if he were a surgeon praying instead of doing his job.

[Deleted]

I am firmly anti religion (no surprise) but I am not anti religious people. I would actually rather forget it existed, and am happy for people to pray and do whatever they like with their lives - why should I care? I dont.
The only reason I even bother speaking up is because it doesn't work both ways - I can be silent, but others will insist of interfering with me, usually in the form of laws based on religious beliefs.

I feel that atheists have to stand up and make noise, otherwise we will head towards a theocracy. I hate it when I disagree with the religious people on the board, and I don't enjoy offending, but feel that too many of us are silent. Much that is done by organized atheist groups is silly, but its better than nothing.

And as for this subject, let him pray his heart out, who cares? Just don't base policy on it.