Europe: is this doable?

[Deleted]

This is a few years off but H and I are starting to think about our first international vacation.

We would like to take 2 weeks and visit Italy (Venice and Rome), France (Paris) and Spain (Madrid and/or Barcelona). Spending 2-3 days in each city.

I don't know how much oppurtunity we will travel internationally so I would like to get several places in but at the same time I don't want to cram so much into one trip that we miss things/don't enjoy it.

So what do you think, doable or too much?

[Deleted]

I think that is a little too much. I would do 4 cities max in 2 weeks. We did that once (Paris, Venice, Florence, and Rome) and it was exhausting.

[frlcb]

Everyone will say it is too much, I say do what you want knowing you may not get a full feel for the city. Of course it is doable, your sightseeing will just be limited to what you can see on those 2-3 days. Account for travel between cities as well. I have done weekend trips all over Europe, for 2-3 days, it was fine.

[mdgirl]

It's doable but you'll be exhausted, especially because you're probably going to try to pack a lot into each day. I would really make an effort to build in a few days where you don't plan anything ahead of time so you can relax a bit. We moved around too much on our first multi-country Europe trip together, and by the end I was super pissy.

[cricketwife]

I think the issue is that you're calling it an international "vacation." It's possible to do what you have outlined, but it will be rushed, tiring and stressful. I've done things like this in the past and traveled with the motto "I can sleep at home!" I think there's a place for it if it's a conscious decision that you make before you leave - that your priority is sightseeing in several countries, not a "vacation."

I personally prefer to spend longer times in one place but I can also say this because I've seen a moderate number of places. I understand the temptation when it's your first trip to want to see EVERYTHING. It's totally normal. You might consider even doing 4 cities in one country because you still get to see a lot of different sights and it all works together to give you more a flavor of the culture of that country. And it's slightly less exhausting when you aren't traveling as far between places.

Do what works for what you want to accomplish. But here's just a little perspective:

NYC to Washington DC to Atlanta to Austin, TX = 1819 miles

Rome to Venice to Paris to Madrid = 1812 miles

[marytini]

Jul 21, 2012 18:19:30 GMT -5 cricketwife said:

Do what works for what you want to accomplish. But here's just a little perspective:

NYC to Washington DC to Atlanta to Austin, TX = 1819 miles

Rome to Venice to Paris to Madrid = 1812 miles

Wow, that is persepctive! Never thought about it this way!

[M]

It's absolutely doable. H and I did a 2400 miles road trip in 8 days and hit Munich, Venice, Rome, Pisa, Oviglio, Montreux, and Nürburgring. Yes it was exhausting but it was also amazing. There were things we missed but we can always go back and we did hit all the places that we set out to see...which was a lot. Just plan very carefully and allow for delays. We plan on doing another road trip again in a few years but going westward towards Madrid and north towards London and Amsterdam then back to Munich.

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2012 17:44:45 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Account for travel between cities as well.

Please feel free to give me a condesending pat on the head if I am way off base here, but I was kind of assuming that we would take overnight trains between cities and sleep on the train...

Like I said, this is a few years off so I haven't done a lot of research yet (just mostly daydreaming about our fabulous European adventures while at work) so that might not be feasible.

[travelingjen]

Jul 21, 2012 19:13:21 GMT -5 @kjewell said:

Jul 21, 2012 17:44:45 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Account for travel between cities as well.

Please feel free to give me a condesending pat on the head if I am way off base here, but I was kind of assuming that we would take overnight trains between cities and sleep on the train...

Like I said, this is a few years off so I haven't done a lot of research yet (just mostly daydreaming about our fabulous European adventures while at work) so that might not be feasible.

I've taken two overnight trains in Europe and I will never do it again. Why? Because I slept like crap due to the frequent stops, uncomfortable bed, and people getting up and moving around. Additionally, there would be few (if any) overnight trains between the destinations that you are looking at that would be more than eight hours in duration thus impending your sleep even more.

Sleep is important on a trip like this, not only due to the jet lag but also because you will be so busy during the day and likely walking much more so than you do at home. I've had plenty of 12 hour go go go days in Europe and while I enjoy that, by the end of the night I am completely exhausted.

Like most of the others, I will recommend that you limit your trip to no more than 3 or 4 cities. Additionally, the more cities/stops you add in the more packing/unpacking you have to do which takes away more of your valuable sightseeing time and adds more stress.

[basilosaurus]

I'm exhausted just looking at that. Your schedule is insane, even if someone says you can do it, I don't think it will be all that enjoyable.

I don't travel nearly as much as mx, but I'm still pretty adept at long flights and jet lag, and I do push myself to have busy active vacations. I think you could do that schedule for maybe 3 days, and then on the 4th all you'll do is sleep all day. On the 5th you'll be sick of packing and just want to ditch your bags.

We just did a week long western med cruise (not my ideal, but whatever), and we were exhausted, and that's without having to pack every night and actually getting restful sleep. That was just from seeing a city in a day, 5 days in a row. By the time we got off the ship, we spent a full half of one of our few days in Barcelona just sleeping.

[pantsparty]

H and I are going to London and Amsterdam over Christmas / New Year's and those are the only two cities we're going to spend time in. IMO, you can travel more, but there is so much history and things to do in any of the cities there is no point in rushing around. Pick 2 cities and really explore them.

[tricolore]

I think it's doable.
Couple thoughts-- while Venice is pretty, it's pricey (by comparison w/ other IT cities). I would suggest Rome/Florence for Italy-- they're closer and I'd just recommend Florence over Venice.
Other than inter-Italy travel, I don't really take trains a lot. I usually drive or fly.
You can comfortably drive Rome, Florence, Madrid, Barcelona in 2wks. I've done it from Naples and I added a few days in Basque country (which was awesome). Alternatively, you can cut Spain and do central France and Paris in the same amount of time (I've done that too-- with Brugge added to the mix, slightly longer trip though closer to 3wks).

While I would NOT recommend driving in Rome or Paris (it's doable, but it's a pain), you could easily make those cities pick-up/drop off points for the rental car.
Note: Gas is crazy expressive, tolls are high in France (not too bad in Spain/IT) and most rentals are stick (standard transmission),

Although alternative-- cheap flights-- check out EasyJet and Ryan Air. Only problem-- watch your luggage weigh/pre-pay for big bags.

Have fun!

[anna7602]

Pps had some good points. I just want to know if you are really set on doing it all at once and if there's a particular time of year you had in mind?

Not knowing what your starting point is in the U.S., I will throw out there that great airfare deals come up in off-season for direct flights out of Boston, Philadelphia and New York. I've gone to Amsterdam, London, Paris and Madrid for 3-4 day trips (each, not together) in the past taking advantage of deals like this. For me, it was really nice to just focus on where I was and not worry about where I was going next or packing up all my stuff to make the one daily flight/train to x place, etc. (which I've also done in the past) or spending a week in three different hotels.

Like Fricb said, 2-3 days can be plenty of time to see a city. It's the traveling in between cities and the accumulated exhaustion of going place to place that could make your suggested itinerary a little difficult.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2012 5:56:42 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

Pps had some good points. I just want to know if you are really set on doing it all at once and if there's a particular time of year you had in mind?

Not knowing what your starting point is in the U.S., I will throw out there that great airfare deals come up in off-season for direct flights out of Boston, Philadelphia and New York. I've gone to Amsterdam, London, Paris and Madrid for 3-4 day trips (each, not together) in the past taking advantage of deals like this. For me, it was really nice to just focus on where I was and not worry about where I was going next or packing up all my stuff to make the one daily flight/train to x place, etc. (which I've also done in the past) or spending a week in three different hotels.

Like Fricb said, 2-3 days can be plenty of time to see a city. It's the traveling in between cities and the accumulated exhaustion of going place to place that could make your suggested itinerary a little difficult.

No, I'm not dead set on doing it all at once. I would like to see them all eventually and since traveling internationally won't be an annual thing I though if it could be done ENJOYABLE (which I'm thinking not) it would be good to do it on the same trip.

Our starting point is Michigan (Detroit). We would probably go in April or May. 2014 would be the earliest with 2015 being more likely.

Thanks for all the advice/opinions ladies, definately things to consider!

[scout8]

I think it is do-able, but would be a little rushed. I would try to keep it to 3 cities in 2 weeks. Also, try to book your flights so you fly into one city and out another so that you don't have to double back.

I actually sleep really well on the overnight trains in Europe. So, for me your plan of taking some overnights between cities would work well. You won't know until you try it though if you will sleep well or not.

[hazel]

I think it depends if the two weeks include travel days or not. It if does, then I think it might be too exhausting. If it doesn't, then I think it's very doable. Even with 14 days, an example itinerary below doesn't account very well for travel between cities, which I'd say would be the majority of the day because of the distances between the cities.

Rome - 4 days
Venice - 2 days
Paris - 4 days
Madrid or Barcelona - 4 days

Take those estimates with a grain of salt because I've only traveled to Paris, but one of my favorite activities is planning future itineraries. Although, when my husband and I have traveled internationally, we've only traveled through one country at a time. We enjoy seeing the countryside.

Anyway, I do think 4 cities might be a bit rushed, but doable if you find good transportation between cities. Personally, I'd probably stick with Rome, Venice, and Paris.

[Deleted]

I think it's doable, and if you have your heart set on those cities and you only want to see the main sights in each city you may love it. You should base it on your own travel style. To me personally, it doesn't sound as enjoyable as visiting two or three cities and spending more time in each. The number of days per city seem ok, but you might be underestimating the toll of travel time. Everything could go smoothly, or you could have jet lag, hit poor weather, train/plane delays, etc. which could ruin one of your stops completely. I am a pretty energetic traveler too, but for international trips I leave 'unscheduled' time in every city to account stuff like that, to ensure we have enough time to a)see what we want to see; and b) relax a teeny bit and not feel completely rushed.

[basilosaurus]

A couple other things to keep in mind.

Overnight trains aren't always a full night of sleep. They may arrive at 5am. There's no option to hit the snooze button for another hour if you're still sluggish. You may have to transfer as well. IIRC as of just a few months ago when I looked into it, there wasn't a nonstop overnight from Barcelona to Paris. We ended up flying after just a cursory look at the train because getting a private sleeper was so incredibly expensive (I think over 200e pp), and the timing wasn't good.

Secondly, even for experienced travelers, going to a new city can be overwhelming and disorienting: figuring out maps, subway stops, how to pay at the machine when they're all different, learning which places to validate tickets and which don't, possibly getting yelled at by a train inspector in a foreign language because you screwed it up (ask me how I know!). Sometimes I don't feel entirely comfortable getting around the first few days, especially with navigating public transportation, and it can bleed time trying to figure it out. It can also make you snap at your partner (again, ask me how I know!). It doesn't sound as though you've done much traveling at all, so you'll be new at all these experiences which can be really stressful and frustrating.

Part of the joy of traveling IMO is just soaking up the experience of being there, not only going from sight to sight, and that means planning time to just wander aimlessly, sit at a cafe, people watch, read a book at a park, etc. Paris, for instance, is as much about the sidewalk cafes as it is the museums and eiffel tower. With your itinerary, you may get to see a lot, but I don't think you'll get to experience it. I get the desire to see it all in one trip, and it can be done, physically, but I don't think it's a good idea.

[Deleted]

Thanks for all you advice ladies! I'm taking it all into account and will probably just do Rome, Venice and Paris. We will leave Spain for another trip (any excuse to travel, right... )

[gt7301b]

I'm a little late to the party, but i am still going to give my two cents. If you really want to hit Spain and Italy I am going to suggest a cruise. We just got back from a seven day cruise that left from Malaga and hit both Rome and Florence. Rome and Florence were back to back days and it was tough, but doable. If I were to do it again I would have taken the train from Rome to Florence and skipped the boat that night.

I actually prefer flying to the train in Europe. Ryanair runs ~$100, and can be cheaper and faster than the train.

I also wanted to add my favorite cities in Spain are Seville and Grenada.

[hz80408]

I'm late too; but I like gt's suggestion for a cruise to visit Spain and Italy.

I also like hazel's suggested itinerary.

H and I did our first trip trip in spring; over 18 days we did: Amsterdam (3 days), train to Paris (4 days), fly to Barcelona (4 days), and fly to London area (5 days); the other 2 travel days were getting from/to Chicago.

It was an exhausting trip; but for our first trip, we liked it and wouldn't have changed a thing. In addition to pp's comments about overnight trains, when you start to look into booking transportation/hotels, it could be cheaper for you to have a hotel one more night and pay to fly during the day than it would be for two to take an overnight train.

Originally we were going to take an overnight train from Paris to Barcelona. We realized it would have cost ~$600; our flight and extra night in Paris cost us $450; plus we got one more night there.