I think "trying to save my marriage" is a pretty general sentiment with 3 kids, no matter how douche-tastic the husband is. Lots of people feel like this up until they sign the divorce papers - they even feel guilty after.
Just go with it, don't fight her or point out what a bad plan that is. She may or may not get to the point of "wanting" a divorce. Just be super supportive when she moves in a healthy direction, and calm when she doesn't.
Look, I get that you never know what you'll do in the situation, and TBH, I roll my eyes at the people who claim to *know* with such certainty that the marriage is over at the slightest suggestion of infidelity, but I feel comfortable saying that a multi-year affair that is still continuing would be a certain marriage ender.
I'm sorry for your friend. I would encourage her to seek counseling.
Sure she could not get divorced. You can submit to the court and then ask that it be dismissed.
Ending a relationship is hard and some people think dealing with the crap is easier than breaking up.
Like Seinfeld says, breaking up is like tipping a coke machine, you rock it a few times before it falls over.
He sounds like a pretty terrible partner, so I hope she doesn't go back, but anything can happen.
Maybe ask her to coffee and talk through things non-judge mentally. Maybe she just needs some reassurance she can do it in her own or help making a plan. Don't tell her to leave him or say "he's awful". I think it is okay to say "that made you feel awful when he did that"
I'd just try to be vague and non-committal, and not get sucked into the drama: You deserve to be happy, you need to do what you think is best for you and your children, you can love someone without supporting what they do, you deserve a partner who will work equally on your marriage with you, blah blah blah.
Honestly, if she's too immature/shocked/stupid/in denial/whatever you want to call it, to realize that this guy is bad news, then I doubt a Come to Jesus talk from you (or anyone else) is going to convince her to dump his sorry ass.
And, yes, sadly I know people who stay in a marriage for years with partners who treat them like shit. Because they're scared to be alone, they can't support themselves financially, they'd rather stay in a familiar yet shitty situation rather than face the unknown, they're one of those people who simply can't be single, their family/culture looks down upon it, etc.
Just support her and be a good friend. If she asks for advice, I would give it and tell her you want what's best for her, but she has to make the decision. I can't imagine the shock she felt over finding out her husband was basically leading a double life, all the while she's got 3 kids, one a baby.
I'm sure a lot of us know someone in a bad marriage and wish they would get out, but for a whole host of reasons they stay.
Post by sometimesrunner on Aug 6, 2014 12:58:19 GMT -5
Ugh, that's awful. I think the kids play a large role in her "I want to save this" sentiment. If she stays with him her kids will have little/no interaction with the mistress, but if they're divorced, her kids could get a stepmom. In her mind staying with the douche is the lesser of two evils.
I'd probably ask her "is he trying as hard as you are to save the marriage?" Or something along those lines. Doesn't sound like Brad wants to stay married so he might make the decision for them. My BFF recently got divorced and her XH made the decision that it was over despite her last ditch efforts to make it work. I'd only ask her once, though, and after that I just listen and try to help with whatever she needs. If that's hearing "I hope you make it work" then that's what I'll offer.
After I found out my ex was having an affair, I wanted to try to save my marriage and make it work. Even though he had a girlfriend, felt he did nothing wrong, told me I was the crazy person and needed my head examined, became verbally and emotionally abusive. I still wanted to try and work things out for our ds. I got him to go to counseling twice before he gave up and I finally realized it took two people to work on a marriage. Jen will come to that conclusion at some point. Until then, you need to just be supportive of her and listen when she needs to talk.
Poor Jen. It's so easy to be on the outside looking in and say leave him, he's horrible. The reality of doing so is much harder, for a variety of reasons. Because she didn't know about or understand the refinancing, I'm guessing he has been very controlling and manipulative, she is probably very lost at the moment.
The suggestion to check out survinginfidelity.com is a great one. Encourage her to get individual counseling if you can. A book recommendation would be Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. Have lots of patience with her. Help her think things through if you can.
Until then, you need to just be supportive of her and listen when she needs to talk.
Formerly, thank you for the sage advice.
When you think about supportive...is it just listening? I have sent her care packages (we live far away), little gifts, etc....but not sure if there's anything else that I could do. I really appreciate the perspective, very much.
I'm sorry shoegal. I remember you talking about this situation before.
I'll say the same that I told you that time: Avoid judging her. She needs a safe place right now, where she can go and talk freely about her feelings without feeling the pressure to disappoint someone. You don't have to agree with her (I don't agree with her either), but just being supportive and being that place were she can just be herself, will be very beneficial to her.
Another thing I'd suggest is be discreet. She probably feels super embarrassed as it is, so she doesn't need her circle talking about it. Even if you mean well and you talk about her situation with people in her circle, if she finds out, she's likely going to feel ashamed.
Finally, follow her lead as to what she wants. Maybe she wants to talk it out, maybe she just wants to distract herself with silly magazines and movies, maybe she wants to just cry and be hugged, I don't know. But don't force her to do any of those things if she doesn't really feel like it.
@ruralrabbit1, would I be an asshole if I sent her a copy of the book you mentioned? Would that be okay? (I don't want to be pushy....it looks like a really good one.)
Another thing I'd suggest is be discreet. She probably feels super embarrassed as it is, so she doesn't need her circle talking about it. Even if you mean well and you talk about her situation with people in her circle, if she finds out, she's likely going to feel ashamed.
Bunnys, you will be proud - I remember your advice & have been absolutely shutting down any convos related to Jen & Brad with others. It is really a stunning turn of events - no one saw it coming (from the outside), though now looking back, there are so many signs that even I feel I missed...can only imagine how Jen feels.
@ruralrabbit1, would I be an asshole if I sent her a copy of the book you mentioned? Would that be okay? (I don't want to be pushy....it looks like a really good one.)
Also, for this situation, I feel that she just "checked out" - you guys, they had a fantastic life together (outside looking in), materially speaking, and I always wondered a little (we never talk about $$) where the money was coming from, as she SAH. Grrr.
I think you can, if done in the right way. Include a note saying that you're thinking of her and know she's struggling. A "friend" who went through similar things found the book helpful in thinking through everything. Just show you are trying help and encourage her, regardless of her decision.
Oh jeez. First, I'm glad this isn't for you. Second, it sounds like Jen is deluded. I think I would see if she wanted to get together and talk, or talk via phone. This isn't a topic to continue via texting.
I can somewhat sympathize - we have a friend who withstood years of a terrible marriage because she was "trying to make it work." It was so hard to watch, and impossible to give any constructive advice, because there was really only one thing to say, and she didn't want to hear it. Eventually she did get divorced, and is now remarried and so happy, and has said she didn't realize at the time just how bad her first marriage was. Maybe your friend is in a similar situation. I hope she snaps out of it and moves on from this terrible situation.
I can totally see where she's coming from. On the one hand she's looking at divorcing Brad and having to find a way to support herself and 3 small kids, and re-entering the workforce to boot. Not to mention the house debt is an albatross around her neck, she likely has no idea where to start with that, and you didn't mention how much of a local support system she has. On the other hand she's looking at just KOKO so as not to have to deal with all of the above, at least not yet.
I agree, be as supportive as you can without judgement, and do your best not to get sucked too far into it.
I feel sorry for Jen- I was also cheated on in my first marriage but very thankful I didn't have children with him. I think that would have added even more stress to the situation.
Personally, I really appreciated when people didn't press me for answers about what was going to happen. My entire life had just been changed, and it annoyed me when people expected answers that I really couldn't give at the time. When it first happened, I think I was still in shock. I wasn't thinking clearly on what my next steps were (file for divorce, sell house, etc) I know I waited awhile before doing anything, I just kind of fumbled through life, afraid to actually file or do anything permanent. I felt judged when people brought up what they would do. (not saying this is what you are doing- just trying to give my perspective)
I think the best thing you can do is be there for her. The friends that randomly checked in with me, send a funny cartoon or picture, just called to say hi without asking for details, those types of things meant the world to me at the time. I think the care package thing is nice, just to let her know you are thinking of her.
It's so hard for friends when someone is going through this. None of these incidents exist in a bubble, so I try very hard not to be incredulous when a friend is staying in a bad situation. I've learned first hand just how hard it can be to leave, even when everything is far beyond toxic. It also starts straining friendships because it's exhausting when a friend needs a lot of emotional support while the solution to the problems seems so obvious.
I know my circumstances are different, but the things I've found most helpful during the past year or so were my friends reminding me that it isn't my job to fix or save him. That it's impossible, actually. People have to do that for themselves. I also appreciated being reminded that I am still young and vibrant and have a beautiful life ahead of me. That it's okay for me to be "selfish" and want more than this.
Really, though, time is the only thing that will get her there. The coke machine analogy was spot on.