I guess I should start posting over here

[nerdicorn]

Hi all..

So about five years ago I was misdiagnosed as bipolar and then (properly) diagnosed as having PTSD, and struggled with general anxiety issues as well as periodic bouts with depression. More recently I was diagnosed with PPA (post partum anxiety).

I've also had some serious bouts with problem drinking through pretty much my entire adulthood. Despite being on medications to try to control my PPA, once my husband was home from work and could watch the baby I was drinking entirely too much.  I didn't really hit a "rock bottom" in that I never "hurt" anyone (besides myself), my husband hasn't given me a talk or ultimatum (though he supports me in my sobriety), I don't drive or do otherwise irresponsible things, but I realized how stupid I was being mixing drinks with my anxiety drugs and that I have a pattern of using alcohol to self-medicate regardless. Given a major root of my PPA is a fear of myself dying and leaving my son without a mother, drinking also just seemed to be incredibly stupid of me. I also worry about my son growing up without a mother because I end up putting alcohol ahead of him. Binge drinking is one thing (very bad, but not uncommon) when you're 21 and stupid but as a near-30 mother it's even more unacceptable and I realized I have a problem. 


Today marks my first week sober (and I mean "sober with intention" in that I've been sober for weeks or months before, but it was never something purposeful). I have gone to AA meetings before but they've never really clicked for me or helped me much. I started attending SMART meetings and have been using the workbook and it's been helping me a lot. Lots of stuff in the "toolbox" has been really effective, especially cost-benefit analysis and playing the tape to the end (from the first drink to how I feel the next day). I'm still kind of coming to grips with the idea that I am going to live the rest of my life as someone who does not drink but I'm feeling very positive about changing things before they get any worse or I start hurting the people I love. So yeah, here I am. 

If anyone else is doing a non-AA program or SMART or whatever I'm always here to chat or PM with

[btay]

Welcome:). I have never heard of the smart program so I am running off to google

[just]

I'm not here for alcohol addiction (although I've also experienced problem drinking). However, I've had two friends be very successful with Moderation Management. They felt that they had drinking issues that didn't extend into full alcoholism (disclaimer - they felt AA wasn't a good fit for them, but recognize that it is the best choice for many)

ETA for clarity, humor that didn't translate etc.

[nerdicorn]

Aug 17, 2014 21:30:23 GMT -5 just said:

I'm not here for alcohol addiction (although I've also experienced problem drinking). However, I've had two friends be very successful with Moderation Management. They felt that they had drinking issues that didn't extend into full alcoholism (disclaimer - they felt AA wasn't a good fit for them, but recognize that it is the best choice for many)

ETA for clarity, humor that didn't translate etc.

I considered it while looking into AA alternatives, but I think with my mental health problems and the fact that moderation doesn't come very easily or naturally to me, it's best that i just strive for abstinence. I'm not an all or nothing person for everyone who's had problem drinking, but for me I definitely think I'll be at my best staying abstinent!

[just]

Aug 17, 2014 22:26:03 GMT -5 nerdicorn said:

Aug 17, 2014 21:30:23 GMT -5 just said:

I'm not here for alcohol addiction (although I've also experienced problem drinking). However, I've had two friends be very successful with Moderation Management. They felt that they had drinking issues that didn't extend into full alcoholism (disclaimer - they felt AA wasn't a good fit for them, but recognize that it is the best choice for many)

ETA for clarity, humor that didn't translate etc.

I considered it while looking into AA alternatives, but I think with my mental health problems and the fact that moderation doesn't come very easily or naturally to me, it's best that i just strive for abstinence. I'm not an all or nothing person for everyone who's had problem drinking, but for me I definitely think I'll be at my best staying abstinent!

I'm so glad that you've found a program that works for you. I think that is the most important thing. I love that there are choices for those that know that abstinence is the best route for them, even if AA doesn't fit their recover, AND there can be support for those that think moderation is a better option.

Lots of love and luck to you. I know you'll get tons of support from the wonderful people here.

[Deleted]

Hello. I am a member of AA and would be glad to talk with you anytime. The program has done me so much good. The first thing we do is put down the drink. Then we get to work on causes and conditions. The outcome for me has been amazing and life changing.

Just returned from a vacation in Seattle, so I may be late in welcoming you. But do feel free to post questions. Glad you are here.

[SwimDeep]

Welcome to Recovery!

The distinction you make between sober and "sober with intention" is interesting to me. My H is sober and active in AA, and it's helping him a lot. When he was just starting, he wanted me to be in the program too. I have depression and anxiety (currently on medication for both). I do recognize that I used alcohol to self-medicate in the past, but now that I'm finally getting the medical help I need, I don't have the "need" for alcohol.
I definitely recognize the difference, though, between my H's sobriety (something he works hard on keeping and building up) and my dryness. I'm so proud of him for all the hard work he's done so far, but I would never give myself credit for "staying sober." There's definitely a difference.

[malibu]

Welcome! You sound like you've got a really good head on your shoulders. I've also never heard of SMART so I will need to Google that one. It sounds like you are definitely on the right path and you should be proud of that

[flex]

Aug 17, 2014 19:19:01 GMT -5 nerdicorn said:

Hi all..

So about five years ago I was misdiagnosed as bipolar and then (properly) diagnosed as having PTSD, and struggled with general anxiety issues as well as periodic bouts with depression. More recently I was diagnosed with PPA (post partum anxiety).

I've also had some serious bouts with problem drinking through pretty much my entire adulthood. Despite being on medications to try to control my PPA, once my husband was home from work and could watch the baby I was drinking entirely too much.  I didn't really hit a "rock bottom" in that I never "hurt" anyone (besides myself), my husband hasn't given me a talk or ultimatum (though he supports me in my sobriety), I don't drive or do otherwise irresponsible things, but I realized how stupid I was being mixing drinks with my anxiety drugs and that I have a pattern of using alcohol to self-medicate regardless. Given a major root of my PPA is a fear of myself dying and leaving my son without a mother, drinking also just seemed to be incredibly stupid of me. I also worry about my son growing up without a mother because I end up putting alcohol ahead of him. Binge drinking is one thing (very bad, but not uncommon) when you're 21 and stupid but as a near-30 mother it's even more unacceptable and I realized I have a problem. 


Today marks my first week sober (and I mean "sober with intention" in that I've been sober for weeks or months before, but it was never something purposeful). I have gone to AA meetings before but they've never really clicked for me or helped me much. I started attending SMART meetings and have been using the workbook and it's been helping me a lot. Lots of stuff in the "toolbox" has been really effective, especially cost-benefit analysis and playing the tape to the end (from the first drink to how I feel the next day). I'm still kind of coming to grips with the idea that I am going to live the rest of my life as someone who does not drink but I'm feeling very positive about changing things before they get any worse or I start hurting the people I love. So yeah, here I am. 

If anyone else is doing a non-AA program or SMART or whatever I'm always here to chat or PM with

Hi, I'm just curious (because whatever works for you is the best thing to do)--what was it about AA that didn't click with you?  Like I said I'm just curious--no judgement here.  : )

[nerdicorn]

Aug 18, 2014 13:28:35 GMT -5 flex said:

Aug 17, 2014 19:19:01 GMT -5 nerdicorn said:

Hi all..

So about five years ago I was misdiagnosed as bipolar and then (properly) diagnosed as having PTSD, and struggled with general anxiety issues as well as periodic bouts with depression. More recently I was diagnosed with PPA (post partum anxiety).

I've also had some serious bouts with problem drinking through pretty much my entire adulthood. Despite being on medications to try to control my PPA, once my husband was home from work and could watch the baby I was drinking entirely too much.  I didn't really hit a "rock bottom" in that I never "hurt" anyone (besides myself), my husband hasn't given me a talk or ultimatum (though he supports me in my sobriety), I don't drive or do otherwise irresponsible things, but I realized how stupid I was being mixing drinks with my anxiety drugs and that I have a pattern of using alcohol to self-medicate regardless. Given a major root of my PPA is a fear of myself dying and leaving my son without a mother, drinking also just seemed to be incredibly stupid of me. I also worry about my son growing up without a mother because I end up putting alcohol ahead of him. Binge drinking is one thing (very bad, but not uncommon) when you're 21 and stupid but as a near-30 mother it's even more unacceptable and I realized I have a problem. 


Today marks my first week sober (and I mean "sober with intention" in that I've been sober for weeks or months before, but it was never something purposeful). I have gone to AA meetings before but they've never really clicked for me or helped me much. I started attending SMART meetings and have been using the workbook and it's been helping me a lot. Lots of stuff in the "toolbox" has been really effective, especially cost-benefit analysis and playing the tape to the end (from the first drink to how I feel the next day). I'm still kind of coming to grips with the idea that I am going to live the rest of my life as someone who does not drink but I'm feeling very positive about changing things before they get any worse or I start hurting the people I love. So yeah, here I am. 

If anyone else is doing a non-AA program or SMART or whatever I'm always here to chat or PM with

Hi, I'm just curious (because whatever works for you is the best thing to do)--what was it about AA that didn't click with you?  Like I said I'm just curious--no judgement here.  : )

No problem answering  

A lot of people take issue with the higher power thing, but because I do believe in God that's actually the one thing I found VERY effective, go figure!

This is going to be long but please don't take it as me attacking AA or even thinking if I moved, etc that it'd be useless to me, as I think a lot of this is just a product of location and the "make-up" of my local groups.

The first thing that stuck in my mind and made things hard was the whole "powerless to alcohol" thing. On a rational level I understand the purpose of such a statement, but on a more visceral and personal level, I struggle with feeling unempowered day in and day out and that's definitely a root to why I turn to alcohol. Letting alcohol be another thing that I say/admit/allow to control me just sort of adds to my "emotional dogpile". That's not to say that I can drink and control it-- but in SMART rather than stating that we are powerless against alcohol we focus on the fact that we absolutely can choose not to use it. It also didn't ring true to me because I have had long periods of being "dry" (something I differentiate from purposeful sobriety, because i wasn't mindfully abstaining for my health and wellbeing during dry periods), so clearly I'm not powerless, though I am making poor choices to begin imbibing in the first place. 

The other thing that bothered me was that I felt at a very different point in my alcohol abuse than a lot of fellow meeting goers. That in and of itself isn't such a big deal but the program felt very one-size-fits-all in that regard. Very few of the other folks at the meeting were similar at all to myself: drank at home to deal with uncomfortable/upsetting emotions, didn't really do anything crazy. The majority of the members are men in my local meetings and most of them when they are drinking go out, drink to out of control levels as a social thing, and then do dangerous and harmful things. It was very hard for me to identify with them (and likely them with me) because our motivations and behaviors under the influence were so vastly different. I'm not saying that as a judgment but rather a statement of fact-- someone like me who would down two bottles of wine to get "comfortably numb" before going to bed is simply in a different place than the man who drinks 20 shots of vodka and tries to punch a police officer in the face. Both of us are struggling with alcohol problems but the motivation and manifestation is so different that it's a very hard bridge to gap.

To sort of tie into the above, I was very put off by the sponsor system, probably largely in part because I was one of very few women in my local program. I had quite a few men offer to sponsor me almost immediately and it made me feel pretty unsafe and harassed. I got a lot of men I didn't know from Adam asking for my phone number, home address, trying to pressure me into letting them be my sponsor, and in some cases (coming off as very very creepy) saying and acting like they were going to "fix" me. I'm a survivor of multiple types of abuse and I really bristle against unwanted advances from the opposite gender, and the meetings I went to triggered me in a very negative way. When I came home from meetings I felt emotionally raw and exhausted, and frankly, felt like I wanted to have a drink.

Finally, I felt like the tools offered by AA (at least at the meetings I went to) didn't suit my own personality, mentality, and so on. I see the value in many of the individual steps but from craving to craving, day to day I feel my needs and issues vary and swing. Some days I need brutal honesty and examination, other days I need gentleness and self-love. 

When I started attending a local SMART meeting I felt very welcomed because there's no pressure for a mentor type relationship and there was an equal split of men and women. We also went through tools that allowed for the mix of honesty and gentleness that I appreciated. A good example is something called a "Cost Benefit Analysis." You list out all of the benefits of having a drink, short term and long term, then you list out all of the costs, short term and long term. Then you write out the end result of what would be the most appropriate, rational choice. It sounds cold and calculated but it really resonated with me. I appreciated that I was free to say that drinking felt really good, calmed me down, made me feel good about myself in the moment, and so on-- and that when the "cost" part came, I didn't need to be like "I'm going to end up dead" to make the exercise effective for myself. That's not to say no one can get the same sort of thing out of AA, I simply didn't from the meetings I went to (broken record player here). 

[btay]

Aug 18, 2014 16:54:56 GMT -5 nerdicorn said:

Aug 18, 2014 13:28:35 GMT -5 flex said:

Hi, I'm just curious (because whatever works for you is the best thing to do)--what was it about AA that didn't click with you?  Like I said I'm just curious--no judgement here.  : )

No problem answering  

A lot of people take issue with the higher power thing, but because I do believe in God that's actually the one thing I found VERY effective, go figure!

This is going to be long but please don't take it as me attacking AA or even thinking if I moved, etc that it'd be useless to me, as I think a lot of this is just a product of location and the "make-up" of my local groups.

The first thing that stuck in my mind and made things hard was the whole "powerless to alcohol" thing. On a rational level I understand the purpose of such a statement, but on a more visceral and personal level, I struggle with feeling unempowered day in and day out and that's definitely a root to why I turn to alcohol. Letting alcohol be another thing that I say/admit/allow to control me just sort of adds to my "emotional dogpile". That's not to say that I can drink and control it-- but in SMART rather than stating that we are powerless against alcohol we focus on the fact that we absolutely can choose not to use it. It also didn't ring true to me because I have had long periods of being "dry" (something I differentiate from purposeful sobriety, because i wasn't mindfully abstaining for my health and wellbeing during dry periods), so clearly I'm not powerless, though I am making poor choices to begin imbibing in the first place. 

The other thing that bothered me was that I felt at a very different point in my alcohol abuse than a lot of fellow meeting goers. That in and of itself isn't such a big deal but the program felt very one-size-fits-all in that regard. Very few of the other folks at the meeting were similar at all to myself: drank at home to deal with uncomfortable/upsetting emotions, didn't really do anything crazy. The majority of the members are men in my local meetings and most of them when they are drinking go out, drink to out of control levels as a social thing, and then do dangerous and harmful things. It was very hard for me to identify with them (and likely them with me) because our motivations and behaviors under the influence were so vastly different. I'm not saying that as a judgment but rather a statement of fact-- someone like me who would down two bottles of wine to get "comfortably numb" before going to bed is simply in a different place than the man who drinks 20 shots of vodka and tries to punch a police officer in the face. Both of us are struggling with alcohol problems but the motivation and manifestation is so different that it's a very hard bridge to gap.

To sort of tie into the above, I was very put off by the sponsor system, probably largely in part because I was one of very few women in my local program. I had quite a few men offer to sponsor me almost immediately and it made me feel pretty unsafe and harassed. I got a lot of men I didn't know from Adam asking for my phone number, home address, trying to pressure me into letting them be my sponsor, and in some cases (coming off as very very creepy) saying and acting like they were going to "fix" me. I'm a survivor of multiple types of abuse and I really bristle against unwanted advances from the opposite gender, and the meetings I went to triggered me in a very negative way. When I came home from meetings I felt emotionally raw and exhausted, and frankly, felt like I wanted to have a drink.

Finally, I felt like the tools offered by AA (at least at the meetings I went to) didn't suit my own personality, mentality, and so on. I see the value in many of the individual steps but from craving to craving, day to day I feel my needs and issues vary and swing. Some days I need brutal honesty and examination, other days I need gentleness and self-love. 

When I started attending a local SMART meeting I felt very welcomed because there's no pressure for a mentor type relationship and there was an equal split of men and women. We also went through tools that allowed for the mix of honesty and gentleness that I appreciated. A good example is something called a "Cost Benefit Analysis." You list out all of the benefits of having a drink, short term and long term, then you list out all of the costs, short term and long term. Then you write out the end result of what would be the most appropriate, rational choice. It sounds cold and calculated but it really resonated with me. I appreciated that I was free to say that drinking felt really good, calmed me down, made me feel good about myself in the moment, and so on-- and that when the "cost" part came, I didn't need to be like "I'm going to end up dead" to make the exercise effective for myself. That's not to say no one can get the same sort of thing out of AA, I simply didn't from the meetings I went to (broken record player here). 

  Well it sounds like you have found a good match. I'm shocked at the amount of men that offered to sponsor because I was pretty sure AA frowns on opposite sex sponsors (probably for the reasons you listed).

[flex]

AA strongly "suggests" men sponsor men, and women sponsor women. I've seen men and women sponsor each other periodically, but it's not the "norm" in these parts.

[Deleted]

Aug 18, 2014 17:45:26 GMT -5 flex said:

AA strongly "suggests" men sponsor men, and women sponsor women. I've seen men and women sponsor each other periodically, but it's not the "norm" in these parts.

Here, too, unless you're attracted to the same sex, then you are better paired up with someone of the opposite gender!  I know a gay man who has a woman sponsor because it alleviates any of that sexual attraction.  Which is why heterosexual people are, in general, sponsored by someone of the same gender, I think.  

OP, that aggressiveness of the men would turn me off, too.  I've been observing one of my AA sponsees (beautiful woman) get hit on over and over by one of our group members.  We call that "13th stepping" and it is frowned upon.  I'm afraid I'm gonna have to ask this guy to leave her alone.  Fortunately my sponsee is savvy.  

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about AA.  That was really interesting to read.  I love AA, but sounds like you've found something that works for you!