Post by hopecounts on Jul 25, 2012 13:35:17 GMT -5
Can you compromise by helping with the party but refuse to speak? Regardless of the circumstances 25 yrs of marriage is a big deal and should be celebrated. My dad cheated on my mom and married the woman and that's how I'd handle it, it's not betraying your Mom to celebrate a big occasion for your Dad. If your Mom has a problem with it then that's her issue and she needs to deal, frankly she needs to move past it for her sake at this point as it's only toxic to her to be angry/resentful at this point. Just tell her straight out that you are not going to speak be ause you aren't comfortable but are happy to help with the party.
Can you talk to your dad and step-mom and find out if they've ever been honest with your sister about the backstory?
Regardless, I think refusing to help plan this party because 25 years ago their relationship started off in a less-than-ideal way is frankly weird. 25 years of happy marriage is somethign to celebrate no matter how it started. But I understand being uncomfortable making a speech. I don't really know how you convey that to your sister, except just by telling her what you've already said but leave off the "well, you know" parts and just shut her ass down when she insists. Pull the "you wouldn't understand because you're parents aren't divorced" line if you have to. Even blame your mom if you think that wouldn't cause more drama. But be firm about it if you really don't want to do it.
I think saying that planning a party 25 years later condones the cheating is odd though.
How their relationship started really sucks, but it is in the past, it's been 25 years. They are happily married, your SM has been very good to you. I find this an odd point in your life to now take a stand over HOW their relationship started.
i am talking out of my ass here, but can't you agree to give the speech and then just speak about what you're comfortable discussing? keep it short, tell a couple nice memories of you all as a family, and then sit down?
Post by foundmylazybum on Jul 25, 2012 13:44:42 GMT -5
Wow. I have a lot of thoughts about this...
My first thought is...can you talk NOT about how they came together and that pain--is that what is hindering you?
Instead think through and focus on really what is important about that moment--which is your dad and step mom...keeping it simple and saying something about how over time you have noticed the kind things they do for each other--small moments where your family was really happy?
It must be difficult to have to focus on this kind of thing--and behind it see that it was based on the pain of your mom--and that she is still struggling with that. I'm truly sorry for her---I almost might see that as an issue you might work on with your DAD--finding out from HIM what your sister knows and doesn't know (that way you aren't a bombshell dropper by accident)--AND telling your dad how much pain it has caused (a difficult task )
Can you talk to your dad and step-mom and find out if they've ever been honest with your sister about the backstory?
Regardless, I think refusing to help plan this party because 25 years ago their relationship started off in a less-than-ideal way is frankly weird. 25 years of happy marriage is somethign to celebrate no matter how it started. But I understand being uncomfortable making a speech. I don't really know how you convey that to your sister, except just by telling her what you've already said but leave off the "well, you know" parts and just shut her ass down when she insists. Pull the "you wouldn't understand because you're parents aren't divorced" line if you have to. Even blame your mom if you think that wouldn't cause more drama. But be firm about it if you really don't want to do it.
I think saying that planning a party 25 years later condones the cheating is odd though
And I think this might be my own head talking. Like I said, this was such a huge thing for my mom that I spent most of my life trying to balance having some kind of relationship with my dad with not making my mom feel like I was choosing him over her. I remember more than one holiday where I made my dad take me back home because my mom got upset as we were leaving about being "alone" on Christmas/Thanksgiving/etc (even though both my grandparents were alive at that time and she would be with them) and I felt horribly guilty.
Ok, I suspected that was the case. Look - your mom has pushed her issues onto you. Your dad and SM have been married for 25 years. Now is not the time to judge them. And when you were 5 was not the time to judge them either because you were a CHILD and your mom was being a *jerk* to make you take responsibility for her unhappiness. They made shitty choices then, but they are happy now and have made an effort to include you in that happiness.
It's a good thing. Celebrate that.
eta: gah. sorry for calling your mom a nasty name. I edited. But I have extremely limited patience for people who take their unhappiness out on their children. Please take it in the spirit it was meant - support of you and not just random bashing.
I can kind of relate. My parents split 13 years ago and my mom married the OM two years ago. I didn't go to the wedding but I would certainly help plan a major anniversary party for them (although I wouldn't give a speech). It all becomes water under the bridge at some point, right?
I'd offer to help plan the party and then say you're uncomfortable giving a speech (blame nerves or something else like you'll get too emotional and cry in public or some other bull) and say you'll write them a letter instead.
Can you talk to your dad and step-mom and find out if they've ever been honest with your sister about the backstory?
Regardless, I think refusing to help plan this party because 25 years ago their relationship started off in a less-than-ideal way is frankly weird. 25 years of happy marriage is somethign to celebrate no matter how it started. But I understand being uncomfortable making a speech. I don't really know how you convey that to your sister, except just by telling her what you've already said but leave off the "well, you know" parts and just shut her ass down when she insists. Pull the "you wouldn't understand because you're parents aren't divorced" line if you have to. Even blame your mom if you think that wouldn't cause more drama. But be firm about it if you really don't want to do it.
I think saying that planning a party 25 years later condones the cheating is odd though
And I think this might be my own head talking. Like I said, this was such a huge thing for my mom that I spent most of my life trying to balance having some kind of relationship with my dad with not making my mom feel like I was choosing him over her. I remember more than one holiday where I made my dad take me back home because my mom got upset as we were leaving about being "alone" on Christmas/Thanksgiving/etc (even though both my grandparents were alive at that time and she would be with them) and I felt horribly guilty.
And that was so beyond wrong of your Mom. She was an adult and should've acted like it. There is nothing wrong with celebrating this occasion with your dad and choosing to have a relationship with your Dad is not a slight to your Mom and she needs to stop making you feel guilty about it. You deserve a relationship with the only Dad you have the same way you deserve a relationship with your Mom. Both parents should respect and encourage you to be involved with the other parent because it's best for you.
I think asking your Dad to step in and get your sis to back off is a good suggestion if it's not a surprise party.
How their relationship started really sucks, but it is in the past, it's been 25 years. They are happily married, your SM has been very good to you. I find this an odd point in your life to now take a stand over HOW their relationship started.
This is where I'm at. And I'mma go one further (since I have a very bitter mom and grandmother), your mom's bitterness is YOUR MOTHER'S PROBLEM. It is not yours. I get you want to be loyal to her because what happened sucked, but your father and step-mom are important too. They have loved you and made you feel more than accepted.
My vote is to help your sister out with the party.
Post by cookiemdough on Jul 25, 2012 13:57:39 GMT -5
I don't know, to be honest I think it is kind of obtuse on your sister's end to not realize that you may not view their relationship the same. Regardless of how it started, it still was different for you going between two homes, etc. I am glad you have a good relationship with your step-mom, and I think you should make an effort to participate in the celebration in some shape or fashion. However, I don't think your sister gets to dictate for you what form that should take.
It really does go back to feeling like I'm somehow betraying my mom by celebrating part of the reason her marriage broke up.
See, the marriage probably would have ended in some or fashion anyhow. I'm not condoning your dad cheating, but the marriage was probably already broken and probably would have ended anyhow.
If you decide to do the speech, focus on what yo utold us- you have a sister from it, your SM was always open and accepting of you. You're thrilled to have her in your life, and you're glad your dad is so happy.
I don't know, to be honest I think it is kind of obtuse on your sister's end to not realize that you may not view their relationship the same. Regardless of how it started, it still was different for you going between two homes, etc. I am glad you have a good relationship with your step-mom, and I think you should make an effort to participate in the celebration in some shape or fashion. However, I don't think your sister gets to dictate for you what form that should take.
Previous strong words aside, I also completely agree with the bolded.
I would feel torn too and tell sister that you can speak about your love for them and your family, but not about their marriage itself. If she pushes, remind her that there was a divorce that had to happen for them to be married now and while some good things came out of it, you were in the middle of it and don't really want to go there.
Personally though, if my dad left my mom and remarried, I would have nothing to do with planning an anniversary party for him, ever. But that is totally colored by my view on divorce.
Post by heightsyankee on Jul 25, 2012 14:10:49 GMT -5
It sounds to me like you *want* to help but feel uncomfortable being al gushy about it because of your mom. I agree with the helping out and keep your comments brief. Tell your sister that and, yeah, what Wawa said about pulling the "your parents aren't divorced card." You don't have to tell your sister that your uncomfortable because of the cheating- you can lie by omission, too, and just say your mother still harbors bad feelings because it was an unpleasant divorce.
Having been a 2x step child with horrible, mean step parents, I really respect your SM. It's not easy to take on other people's children and she could have easily tried to put a wedge between you and your father, or did what my SM did and pretty much ensured I had no good relationship with my half sister.
I am willing to bet you would regret missing out on celebrating this milestone more than you will regret helping out.
And one last thing: after the party, I would approach your father alone and ask him how much your sister knows. Tell him about the stress of planning and ask what he plans to do long term as far as telling her the truth.
Hm. I may be the outlier because I can see not being comfortable with throwing confetti on these people to celebrate a relationship that started while your parents were married and that hurt your mom even if you have been able to develop a loving relationship with them.
But, I think the suggestion to help plan the celebration but not give a speech if you're not comfortable with it is a compromise. Now if your sister pushes and finds out more than she intended that's on her, because your saying no really should be enough.
I'm in this camp, and while I do think that your mom wasn't behaving the best, can you imagine having your husband cheat on you, and then not only be super-dee-duper happy with the other woman, but to have your kid necessarily form a relationship with her, too? It's grossly unjust.
Did you ever talk with a professional when you were younger to help you deal with the divorce? I'm not trying to be a bitch about this. I just think you realize that you have some weird feelings that might not be completely justified, and maybe even seeking someone out now can help with that. More than anything, though, I think these feelings have to do with your relationship with you mom, not your dad.
I had a similar thing happen with my parents. Sort of. My dad and my brother are convinced my mom was cheating on my father. She separated from my dad, finalized the divorce 7-8 months later, and remarried about 4 months after that. So, she was married 1 year after she separated from my father. She claims she was friends with her now-husband, but nothing romantic happened until after she left my dad. I really like her new husband. I give her the benefit of the doubt. She is better off with him. My dad refuses to speak about my mother, but that's his choice. He is also in a relationship.
BUT this all happened when I was 23/24. So I DID grow up with two parents who were married. And I had the benefit of being marginally an adult to try to comprehend what happened. I mean, you can't be held responsible for not thinking about it more... clearly? Not the right word, but you know. You were five! Your parents were perfect. Until your mom told you your dad wasn't. But you probably still worshiped your mother. And growing up with her as your primary parent probably solidified that relationship, making it kind of... manipulative, really, that she badmouthed your father.
I mean, you can't know what happens in a relationship between two adults, even if the fallout affects you greatly. I'm not saying your dad didn't absolutely cheat. I'm sure he did. But you can't know the status of your parents' relationship before that, if and how your mother contributed to her marriage crumbling, what would have happened if your stepmother hadn't been in the picture, or if your mother would have been happier still married to him, or if she would have left him eventually, etc. But the point is that he's happy now, so much of it is water under the bridge.
Does your reluctance with the party have to do with the fact that you don't want to have to tell your mother, and that she might get upset, or that if you feel like you don't tell her about it, you'll be going behind her back and lying by omission? Or something else? Because I'm in the camp that 25 years of marriage is pretty celebration worthy, and that the divorce was a looong time ago, but you can't help feeling what you feel, either.
Did you ever talk with a professional when you were younger to help you deal with the divorce? I'm not trying to be a bitch about this. I just think you realize that you have some weird feelings that might not be completely justified, and maybe even seeking someone out now can help with that. More than anything, though, I think these feelings have to do with your relationship with you mom, not your dad.
BUT this all happened when I was 23/24. So I DID grow up with two parents who were married. And I had the benefit of being marginally an adult to try to comprehend what happened. I mean, you can't be held responsible for not thinking about it more... clearly? Not the right word, but you know. You were five! Your parents were perfect. Until your mom told you your dad wasn't. But you probably still worshiped your mother. And growing up with her as your primary parent probably solidified that relationship, making it kind of... manipulative, really, that she badmouthed your father.
I mean, you can't know what happens in a relationship between two adults, even if the fallout affects you greatly. I'm not saying your dad didn't absolutely cheat. I'm sure he did. But you can't know the status of your parents' relationship before that, if and how your mother contributed to her marriage crumbling, what would have happened if your stepmother hadn't been in the picture, or if your mother would have been happier still married to him, or if she would have left him eventually, etc. But the point is that he's happy now, so much of it is water under the bridge.
Does your reluctance with the party have to do with the fact that you don't want to have to tell your mother, and that she might get upset, or that if you feel like you don't tell her about it, you'll be going behind her back and lying by omission? Or something else? Because I'm in the camp that 25 years of marriage is pretty celebration worthy, and that the divorce was a looong time ago, but you can't help feeling what you feel, either.
Huh? I don't think her feelings are weird at all. I do think it is weird that the sister has decided that she wants to throw a party and is demanding her help with no regard to the fact that she may view the marriage differently.
It sounds like she has a good relationship with her step-mom and I kind of think that is all that is required. Be happy for them, help them celebrate, but that is it. Cheating or not cheating, she didn't have the same childhood as her sister and I don't see why the burden is on her to pretend that she did by participating in the exact same manner as her sister throwing the party.
Hm. I may be the outlier because I can see not being comfortable with throwing confetti on these people to celebrate a relationship that started while your parents were married and that hurt your mom even if you have been able to develop a loving relationship with them.
But, I think the suggestion to help plan the celebration but not give a speech if you're not comfortable with it is a compromise. Now if your sister pushes and finds out more than she intended that's on her, because your saying no really should be enough.
I'm in this camp, and while I do think that your mom wasn't behaving the best, can you imagine having your husband cheat on you, and then not only be super-dee-duper happy with the other woman, but to have your kid necessarily form a relationship with her, too? It's grossly unjust.
My Mom did it. She managed to be the parent and put her kids best interest ahead of her own feelings about the situation and encourage and support our relationship with our Dad and our stepmom who has been really good to us kids.
Huh? I don't think her feelings are weird at all. I do think it is weird that the sister has decided that she wants to throw a party and is demanding her help with no regard to the fact that she may view the marriage differently.
It sounds like she has a good relationship with her step-mom and I kind of think that is all that is required. Be happy for them, help them celebrate, but that is it. Cheating or not cheating, she didn't have the same childhood as her sister and I don't see why the burden is on her to pretend that she did by participating in the exact same manner as her sister throwing the party.
Did you read Wawa's response? The first in this thread, where she also used the term "weird" to describe feeling so paralyzed by feelings of guilt over her mother's mental state due a divorce 25 years ago that she doesn't want to participate in celebrating the marriage that arose after that.
I get that Nuggs had a different childhood than her sister, and I don't mean to diminish that. And I do think her sister is being a little obtuse. I know a LOT of people who hold grudges against their parents due to divorce or remarriages. I just find that, often, it's people who experienced those divorces as small children who haven't been able to fully process it.
Like I said, I was an adult when my parents divorced, and therefore I think I just experienced it very differently. My parents are flawed people. Everyone's parents are. Their marriage ended. It doesn't mean it wasn't a good thing, or that there weren't good parts, or that they aren't good parents, or that it was all a mistake. But when you're 5, I can see not seeing past that, and then having the emotional reaction to the divorce you experienced then color your views of it forever. It sounds like her mother's attitude didn't help things. This is not slamming Nugget at all.
I know there are people here who feel differently about divorce or children of divorce, though, and feel like it's ALWAYS tragic. See Pamela's overly simplistic response for an example.
But yes, I think not wanting to celebrate your father's 25th wedding anniversary can be "weird" or immature or just not a normal reaction.
I'm in this camp, and while I do think that your mom wasn't behaving the best, can you imagine having your husband cheat on you, and then not only be super-dee-duper happy with the other woman, but to have your kid necessarily form a relationship with her, too? It's grossly unjust.
My Mom did it. She managed to be the parent and put her kids best interest ahead of her own feelings about the situation and encourage and support our relationship with our Dad and our stepmom who has been really good to us kids.
That's terrific of her. I applaud that she was able to do that. It doesn't change the fact that it was outrageously unjust that she should have to swallow her completely justified feelings that way.
Huh? I don't think her feelings are weird at all. I do think it is weird that the sister has decided that she wants to throw a party and is demanding her help with no regard to the fact that she may view the marriage differently.
It sounds like she has a good relationship with her step-mom and I kind of think that is all that is required. Be happy for them, help them celebrate, but that is it. Cheating or not cheating, she didn't have the same childhood as her sister and I don't see why the burden is on her to pretend that she did by participating in the exact same manner as her sister throwing the party.
Did you read Wawa's response? The first in this thread, where she also used the term "weird" to describe feeling so paralyzed by feelings of guilt over her mother's mental state due a divorce 25 years ago that she doesn't want to participate in celebrating the marriage that arose after that.
LOL really? I missed the usage of the word weird in wawa's post, and what? Doesn't really change my response.
Thank you guys so much, it's incredibly helpful to get a completely outside opinion on this. I'm leaning towards helping to plan some of the stuff, but I still can't make myself get on board with giving a public speech. I fully plan on getting them a nice card and maybe I'll write something personal in there for them.
Just to add, even if I didn't help plan or give a speech I would never have not gone to the party. They're still my family and I do love them, and I know it would hurt my dad and SM a lot if I didn't bother to come.
I think all of this, and the mixed feelings, are completely reasonable.
Huh? I don't think her feelings are weird at all. I do think it is weird that the sister has decided that she wants to throw a party and is demanding her help with no regard to the fact that she may view the marriage differently.
It sounds like she has a good relationship with her step-mom and I kind of think that is all that is required. Be happy for them, help them celebrate, but that is it. Cheating or not cheating, she didn't have the same childhood as her sister and I don't see why the burden is on her to pretend that she did by participating in the exact same manner as her sister throwing the party.
Did you read Wawa's response? The first in this thread, where she also used the term "weird" to describe feeling so paralyzed by feelings of guilt over her mother's mental state due a divorce 25 years ago that she doesn't want to participate in celebrating the marriage that arose after that.
I get that Nuggs had a different childhood than her sister, and I don't mean to diminish that. And I do think her sister is being a little obtuse. I know a LOT of people who hold grudges against their parents due to divorce or remarriages. I just find that, often, it's people who experienced those divorces as small children who haven't been able to fully process it.
Like I said, I was an adult when my parents divorced, and therefore I think I just experienced it very differently. My parents are flawed people. Everyone's parents are. Their marriage ended. It doesn't mean it wasn't a good thing, or that there weren't good parts, or that they aren't good parents, or that it was all a mistake. But when you're 5, I can see not seeing past that, and then having the emotional reaction to the divorce you experienced then color your views of it forever. It sounds like her mother's attitude didn't help things. This is not slamming Nugget at all.
I know there are people here who feel differently about divorce or children of divorce, though, and feel like it's ALWAYS tragic. See Pamela's overly simplistic response for an example.
But yes, I think not wanting to celebrate your father's 25th wedding anniversary can be "weird" or immature or just not a normal reaction.
Mmm...weird was probably not the best choice of words. I suck at feelings.
Mmm...weird was probably not the best choice of words. I suck at feelings.
Me too. :/ I used a ton of words in my original response that don't exactly convey what I mean, but I can't figure out how to word things and not sound like a prick.
I just randomly saw you, in particular, use the word "weird." I didn't mean to drag you into it. I used to convey the reaction I think a lot of posters in the 1st half of the thread had, but I know what you mean about word choice.
I really don't mean to sound critical or like people aren't entitled to their feelings. I completely believe that, rational or irrational, or regardless of what anyone says, your feelings are your feelings and you can't help them.
You and I are similar. Divorce when I was 6, and I'm now 32. My mom cheated on my dad and quickly remarried her lover whom she made leave his wife and marry her. Obviously their early years of marriage were quite horrible and really sort of damaged all our relationships, but things are a lot more at ease now and they just had their 25th anniversary that we all went to.
I wouldn't make the bet about your sister's knowledge so soon w/o talking to her. My half sister (my dad's daughter, he remarried too) is actually pretty *grateful* for the affair in that it gave her life, kwim? It was what led to our dad and her mom meeting. My half sister is also an outspoken twit at times....
I would just say you don't wanna speak, you aren't comfortable, sorry, that's that. You really don't need to explain anything. I DO NOT think you are condoning anything by speaking, but its your choice, bottomline, and if it makes you uncomfortable then she has no right to push you.
::hugs::
ETA: it was pretty awkward at times during the party especially when we had to watch the slideshow. Stepdad's kids (who are in their 40s) were pretty silent during the wedding picture shots. I think all us kids hate those pics save for my youngest sister who doesn't remember it as she was 3. They are weird feelings to be sure, but I think like mery sorta said, I think they are common amoungst children of divorce.
Look, it's not weird. It's the way she feels. So stop all that shit right now. What her mom may or may not have done blahblahblah (and I like how mom had to do SOMETHING for dad to cheat, fuck that yo), her dad was married, he cheated with this other woman, he divorced her mom and married the other lady.
Nugget was in the middle of all that and saw her family ripped apart. She can feel "weird" or "funny" if she wants to. She can. And if she doesn't want to fete these people, that's OK.
Of course she can feel what she feels! Seriously? I'm pretty sure I said that she should feel free to shut her sister the fuck down if she kept pushing the issue, but I suggested that she help plan the party. I'm not sure what part of that says she's not entitled to her feelings.
I do sincerely apologize to nugget for the weird/odd thing. It wasn't the best word choice and I shouldn't have said it like that.
I haven't read all responses, but I've only got a minute.
My parents divorced when I was two and my dad, his common law wife, and much of his family are... not as nice as your dad and SM sound. My thing has always been - I fight no one else's battles for them, certainly not grown adults. Every two people have their own unique relationship, and not every one is a judgment on the others.
Your sister is being kind of dense and i totally understand your not feeling comfortable speaking, but it's not betraying your mom to be involved.