ODD - when does not engaging become enabling?

[harmony11]

I don't know that I have the right words for that.  Apologies in advance for the long winded post.

Background: DD is 7 and is ADHD/ODD and a master maniplulator.  We go through cycles of fantastic behavior and cycles of really, really fucking awful behavior.  Luckily (in a way), she generally saves her acting out up/disrespect/tantrums and all that up for me.  DH works offshore, so he misses the worst of her behavior.  She will dish out to him a little, but certainly not to the calibur she gives me.  We were seeing a therapist and after a lengthy amount of time, she said that while DD is charming and she enjoys their sessions, she is not making any progress with her because DD shuts down as soon as she senses it isn't fun anymore. We opted to stop seeing her and things at home had improved greatly, so I slacked on finding a replacement.  It has bitten me in the ass.  The last few weeks have been utter hell.  We start with a new therapist next week, but good gravy, I am almost at my breaking point.

Getting back to the question at hand - how do you handle an extremely disrespectful, non-compliant and argumentative 7 year old when the option of walking away, sending them to their room, etc. isn't really an option?  We can't just not get dressed for school/go to school.  When she gets started, I do the whole "you have to get up for school, you can either cooperate and we can have a great morning or you can be difficult and there will be consequences" and the "I can see that you are trying to upset me, but I am not going to argue with you" - but it doesn't seem to help.  She just keeps being difficult and then starts spewing the hate.  I can handle being told I am mean, she doesn't like me, etc.  It is when she starts calling me stupid, buttface, telling me she is going to punch me (or her brother) etc. that pushes me over the edge.  We don't use those names in our house and we don't punch people.  I worry that giving her no reaction to this behavior will put the idea in her head that since I am not saying anything, that it is ok and she is winning.

Short version: ODD kid. Between therapists - starting new one next week.  When does not engaging/no reaction blur into DD thinking she is winning and her actions are ok since I am not saying anything?

[hopecounts]

Would love and logic work.
She has a choice get dressed or go to school in her jammies.
She has a choice walk to the car or be carried/marched there.
ODD kids (as I understand it and from my experience with my BFF who had this diagnosis when we were kids) thrive on conflict so as long as you ultimately get what you want (her at school on time) it's a win for you and more so if you act cool as cucumber and don't buy in to her antics so don't give her the fight she is looking for.

What about handing over more of the responsibility for getting ready which removes the opportunity for conflict with you.
would she follow a picture schedule allowing you to step out of the whole getting ready for school thing and all you do is have breakfast ready and drive the car?

[joenali]

How is she at school? Does she have a 504 or iep? what does her teacher say about her behavior? Perhaps instead of choices like you can cooperate or get a consequence, try choices you can live with and that she actually feels as if she is making a choice that helps her. For example, You can get dressed in your room or in the car. You can go to school in your pjs or you can go in the outfit you chose. You can eat your dinner sitting in this chair or that chair. I know it's easier said than done, but these choices are examples of things you can live with and be ok with.

[starshine1977]

I totally agree with PPs about Love and Logic. It is all about giving the child choices (all choices that would make YOU happy) and ending any arguing. I recommend checking out the site www.loveandlogic.com/t-Free-Articles-and-Handouts-for-Parents.aspx#twelve and looking at some of the Articles for Parents of All Ages. I also recommend the book Parenting with Love and Logic.

[harmony11]

Thanks for the input. I posted and ran last week, got busy with the weekend and had a sick kid yesterday. I just downloaded Parenting with Love and Logic.

Compliance is rewarded. There is defintely a focus on praising good behavior.

We have a 504 and it has helped a lot in school. She isn't the strongest student and she has days when there seem to be a lot of tallies, but we can go months with no conduct marks. Her teachers have told us she is one of the most well mannered kids in their classes.

As far as the choices, these are usually the types we use:
-- You can get dressed here or in the car. If you don't have your clothes on by the time we get to school, you will have to wear your pajamas.

-- You have the choice to calm down or throw your fit in your room. If she doesn't calm down and doesn't go to her room, it becomes you can walk to your room or I can put you in your room.

-- We can read together on the couch and take turns reading paragraphs or you can read to yourself.

Consequences are losing privileges - no kindle time, no tv, no computer, missing fun events.

She caught me crying last week after a really rough night. She asked why I was crying and I told her that it makes me sad that we fight a lot and that I just want her to be happy and I want to help her. Her response: You started this today by making me get up and go to school this morning. If you want me to be happy, give my kindle back. I had to walk away.

It kills me. I just want to help her. She is such an awesome kid and I feel like I am screwing this up beyond repair.

[hopecounts]

It sounds like you are handling it appropriately.
Just remember that it is her ODD making her act this way and nothing you are doing and the only thing you can do is what you are doing, doing your best to help her and to keep on reassuring her of your love and support even when it's hard.

If it helps my friend who had ODD really regrets how she treated her parents as a kid, and they now have a strong and healthy relationship.