SC Supreme Court: Veronica staying with bio dad

[crazytalk]

This is so sad.

www.saveveronica.org/

www.facebook.com/#!/SaveVeronicaRose

From the SVR facebook page:

To all of our amazing supporters it is with completely broken hearts that we share this devastating news with you. The SC Supreme Court has ruled 3-2 in favor of the Indian Child Welfare Act. Veronica is to remain in Oklahoma and will not b...e coming home to Charleston. We cannot thank you enough for all of your prayers and willingness to stand as a united front for our sweet Veronica.

www.sccourts.org/opinions/HTMLFiles/SC/27148.pdf

[escrow]

Complete bs. I have been so emotionally involved with this that I seriously want to throw up today

[ladybug2002]

That is horrible.

[copzgirl1171]

Just awful.

[chichimi]

I really feel for the adoptive parents but I dont understand how this is bs.

[escrow]

Jul 26, 2012 12:52:05 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

I really feel for the adoptive parents but I dont understand how this is bs.

IMO it is bs because the bio father made it crystal clear that he wanted nothing to do with this baby. His mom wanted her, he didn't. He got her because of ICWA. He already lost his rights to her in the eyes of the state without involving ICWA. I also think it is atrocious that her small percentage of Indian blood is all that seems to matter. Who cares that she is 50% Latina.

No, I don't have sources to back this up due to the gag order. But I have followed this since day 1 and have heard both sides. Oh and he also ran out and got married last month to a girl who he met in December. How nice to make things nice and confusing for that poor child.

[charminglife]

Jul 26, 2012 12:52:05 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

I really feel for the adoptive parents but I dont understand how this is bs.

Ditto. I just skimmed the decision but it looks like this was the court's only choice because of ICWA.

[heyjude]

You you think someone would take a custody case all the way to the supreme court if he doesn't actually want custody?

[escrow]

Jul 26, 2012 13:14:06 GMT -5 heyjude said:

You you think someone would take a custody case all the way to the supreme court if he doesn't actually want custody?

He didn't take anything to the SC, the adoptive parents did. But yeah, I guess he didn't just give her back so I take back what I said before.

And yeah, after reading the court's opinion and new info comes to light I do feel conflicted. Both sides lied. The mom was deceptive in not identifying that the father was NA, but the dad KNEW he had a baby girl out there and did nothing to see her or help support her until he finds out someone else has her? That's fucked IMO.

But it is also fucked that it seems they intentionally hid his tribal connections and waited until he was about to deploy to serve the papers.

The whole thing is so sad. I just feel so awful for that little girl. I just hope she is happy and loved and able to forget this crazy time in her little life.

[Deleted]

Jul 26, 2012 13:14:06 GMT -5 heyjude said:

You you think someone would take a custody case all the way to the supreme court if he doesn't actually want custody?

You would be truly shocked at the number of termination of parental rights cases that get reversed on appeal and then the bio parent simply walks away instead of following the trial court's requirements on remand.

[chichimi]

I dont think either side acted like they should have but I think the decision is the right one. If the mother wanted the adoption to go through, she should have been honest. If you have to pull tricks like serve him right before he is deployed, or not make sure he is aware to what he is signing, I dont think that is fair or right. He is her father and he desperately wants custody of her so I think this is good. It is sad that other people got attached to her.

[escrow]

Jul 26, 2012 13:35:32 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

I dont think either side acted like they should have but I think the decision is the right one. If the mother wanted the adoption to go through, she should have been honest. If you have to pull tricks like serve him right before he is deployed, or not make sure he is aware to what he is signing, I dont think that is fair or right. He is her father and he desperately wants custody of her so I think this is good. It is sad that other people got attached to her.

You're right. This has taught me a huge lesson not to get emotionally invested in situations that I don't have all the information on. Both sides screwed up. But bio mom screwed up the worst by withholding this information. So dumb.

[onomatopoeia]

I've been following this case. The worst part is when they removed her from her adoptive parents, there was no transition process at all. The bio-dad picked her up one day and drove 1000 miles away. Regardless of what you feel the outcome should have been, THAT is heartbreaking.

From what I've read there are a lot of different versions of who told what to who, when. Some things I've read said that the bio-mom didn't even know the dad had any native blood, and the dad himself never acknowledged it until he found out it could make a difference regarding custodial law.

[escrow]

I don't know, reading through the whole opinion has me going back and forth...

"In January 2009, Mother told Father they were expecting a child.35 Before her first prenatal doctor's appointment, Mother asked Father for financial assistance. Although he acknowledged paternity from the outset, Father refused to help financially unless he and Mother were married. At trial, Father was asked, "But she had to marry you before you felt you'd be responsible as a father?" He answered, "Correct." After her prenatal appointment, Mother told Father the baby's due date was in September 2009."

That is awful.

And this:

"Father later claimed he would not have "given up" his parental rights had he known Mother planned to place the baby for adoption. However, during Father's cross-examination the following exchange took place:
Q. But you were prepared to sign all your rights and responsibilities away to this child just so as long as the mother was taking care of the child?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you would not be responsible in any way for the child support or anything else as far as the child's concerned?
A. Correct.
Q. That's correct? Is that conducive to being a father?
36 According to the Guardian ad Litem's report, "Phone records obtained by the Guardian confirm many texts coming into [Father's] telephone from the Birth Mother's telephone number through the end of May," despite Father's claim that Mother severed contact and would not respond to his repeated attempts to reach her.
A. I don't believe so."

Okay now I want to throw up again.

[marie427]

From a legal standpoint, the final decision is the correct one. From every other standpoint, the decision is horrible. Bio father sounds like a piece of work.

[ttt]

Jul 26, 2012 13:35:32 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

I dont think either side acted like they should have but I think the decision is the right one. If the mother wanted the adoption to go through, she should have been honest. If you have to pull tricks like serve him right before he is deployed, or not make sure he is aware to what he is signing, I dont think that is fair or right. He is her father and he desperately wants custody of her so I think this is good. It is sad that other people got attached to her.

He didn't desperately want custody - he wanted nothing to do with her and all of his actions show that he doesn't give a shit about his daughter's wellbeing (like just suddenly yanking her away one day from the only family she's ever known).

[escrow]

Apparently she has been spotted with her grandmother out and about, in particular at WalMart at midnight

They are going to take it to the USSC I am pretty sure. This is just not right. The court PROVED the father wanted nothing at all to do with this child until she was 4 months old. You can't just up and decide I want to be a dad today just because you are 10% (or whatever) NA. Sickening.

[OscarQ]

This seems like a lot of trouble for bio dad to go through just to fuck with bio mom. And the adoptive parents - this is just heart breaking for them.

[chichimi]

Jul 26, 2012 14:32:36 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jul 26, 2012 13:35:32 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

I dont think either side acted like they should have but I think the decision is the right one. If the mother wanted the adoption to go through, she should have been honest. If you have to pull tricks like serve him right before he is deployed, or not make sure he is aware to what he is signing, I dont think that is fair or right. He is her father and he desperately wants custody of her so I think this is good. It is sad that other people got attached to her.

He didn't desperately want custody - he wanted nothing to do with her and all of his actions show that he doesn't give a shit about his daughter's wellbeing (like just suddenly yanking her away one day from the only family she's ever known).

It sounds like he and the mother were acting in a power struggle against each other with him wanting to be married and keep her and the mother wanting to adopt her out to another couple instead of letting the father have a chance to raise her. If deceit and trickery were needed for an adoption to go through, then it shouldnt have gone through. The father has done some seriously douchey things but that alone wouldnt justify taking custody from him and if the mother didnt want the child, he should have his chance to raise her before adopting her out. Im sure the child moving was hard for her but once he had the go, why wouldnt he take her back? If he didnt, then there would be people saying he didnt really want her.

[hopecounts]

But it's clear based on the evidence that he wanted nothing to do with the baby unless they were married, he ignored her texts, admits he refused to pay child support, etc. that's not a sign of someone who wants to be a dad.
It sounds like he wanted the bio mom to raise the kid while he abdicate any responsibility. It sounds like He was trying to force the mom to marry him and it back fired. Then he decided to suddenly claim NA status to get around the adoption laws, as far as I know he had no involvement in the tribe until after he failed to get custody back and realized ICWA trumped adoption law.
This is really an ah regions misuse of IcWA and I blame the Cherokee tribe for supporting him on this. ICWA is meant to prevent children that are born into the tribe or are largely blood members of the tribe from being removed from the tribe without tribal consent not as a way to overturn adoptions by stretching a minute amount of NA blood into an ICWA issue.
I think this may come back and hurt the tribes if it goes to the USSC and gets that level of press, a lot of people are going to question the existance of ICWA and there may be a backlash against it.

[wrathofkuus]

Jul 26, 2012 14:07:16 GMT -5 escrow said:

I don't know, reading through the whole opinion has me going back and forth...

"In January 2009, Mother told Father they were expecting a child.35 Before her first prenatal doctor's appointment, Mother asked Father for financial assistance. Although he acknowledged paternity from the outset, Father refused to help financially unless he and Mother were married. At trial, Father was asked, "But she had to marry you before you felt you'd be responsible as a father?" He answered, "Correct." After her prenatal appointment, Mother told Father the baby's due date was in September 2009."

That is awful.

And this:

"Father later claimed he would not have "given up" his parental rights had he known Mother planned to place the baby for adoption. However, during Father's cross-examination the following exchange took place:
Q. But you were prepared to sign all your rights and responsibilities away to this child just so as long as the mother was taking care of the child?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you would not be responsible in any way for the child support or anything else as far as the child's concerned?
A. Correct.
Q. That's correct? Is that conducive to being a father?
36 According to the Guardian ad Litem's report, "Phone records obtained by the Guardian confirm many texts coming into [Father's] telephone from the Birth Mother's telephone number through the end of May," despite Father's claim that Mother severed contact and would not respond to his repeated attempts to reach her.
A. I don't believe so."

Okay now I want to throw up again.

I don't see why anyone is arguing that this is a good decision based on the fact that it was his sperm.