Is voter fraud an actual problem?

[summer]

I mean, is it a widespread thing?

And there's this from Pennsylvania:

On Saturday, State Representative Mike Turzai, R-Allegheny, said the voter ID law would "allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."



www.policymic.com/mobile/articles/10236/pennsylvania-voter-id-law-suppresses-votes-and-benefits-republicans

The Pennsylvania GOP has a little PR problem, and it comes from their House Majority Leader getting too comfortable at the Republican State Committee meeting.

On Saturday, State Representative Mike Turzai, R-Allegheny, said the voter ID law would "allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania." His comments are available on YouTube here.

Turzai's spokesman, Steve Miskin, told reporters Monday that his comment should be discounted because they were directed to a partisan audience.

"The intent of his comment was that it would protect the integrity of the vote," Miskin said. "Have you ever gone to one of these types of meetings? People say partisan things.”

Democrats at the Pennsylvania State Capitol in Harrisburg held a press conference in response. State Senator Daylin Leach, D-Montgomery, told PolicyMic that Turzai's comment is the worst kind of political faux pas.

"I've worked with Mr. Turzai and the risk of him joking about this is very low," Leach said. "That he was tailoring this to a particular audience doesn't pass the laugh test. This law suppresses the vote, and that's the truth."

Leach was joined at the conference by numerous other Pennsylvania Senate Democrats.

Fourteen states, including Pennsylvania, require some form of photo identification before a voter can cast their ballot at the polls, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. An additional 16 states require voters to produce ID, but will accept non-photo variations, such as a utility bill or a bank statement with the voter's name and home address.

At a press conference Tuesday, Leach said that Turzai's comments will be used in voter ID litigation.

"If you have to stop people from voting to win elections, your ideas suck," Leach said.

Pennsylvania will not be the first state to face litigation from voter ID laws. While many states have upheld such measures, Wisconsin's voter ID law was declared unconstitutional by a state judge in March. The state has said that it will appeal the decision.

The United States has already looked to Wisconsin as a variable in the 2012 election. Last month, Governor Scott Walker became the first governor to survive a recall election, winning with 54 to 45 percent margin, according to CBS News.

Mitt Romney called the results a demonstration that voters want sound fiscal policy at both the state and federal level.

"Tonight's results will echo beyond the border of Wisconsin," Romney told CBS.

And with voter ID laws being called into question in many states, including Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, it's almost a guarantee that Turzai's comments will be repeated by Democrats nationwide in their cry for equality and justice at the polls this November.

[Deleted]

No, it's not. I think most states most elections will find a couple of folks with issues.

I think people voting in the wrong districts would be more of an issue due to old addresses, but that isn't what they are talking about.

[NitaX]

We had an issue several years ago with dead people voting, but for the most part it's not really an issue.

What people SHOULD be crying about is that the dayum Election Commission is fucking up ballots and people are getting the wrong ballot. OAN - if it's jacked up, too bad, so sad. Idiot asses in Shelby County.

[EllieArroway]

No, voter fraud is not an issue. I haven't seen any data suggesting it's a real problem. Election fraud is probably a much bigger problem.

[penguingrrl]

No, I'm pretty sure voter fraud is not a big issue. And I'm pretty disgusted by the implication that only the "other side" would commit voter fraud.

[Deleted]

A Dane County judge recently struck down Wisconsin's voter ID law. It was a very well-reasoned decision, full of actual facts. The gist of it is that the judge found that the challengers had established that the voter ID law impaired the right to vote and that because voting is a fundamental right. The court went on to find that the state had not demonstrated that the voter ID law, as written, served a compelling government interest (ie, fixes an actual, as opposed to hypothetical, problem) and was narrowly tailored to achieve that goal.

I think you should be able to see it here. Let me know if it doesn't show up. I'm having some problems seeing it, but I think it's just my computer.

[pixy0stix]

www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_the_truth_about_voter_fraud/

Short answer, there's been no proven cases of widespread voter fraud.

[Deleted]

The other issue to keep in mind is that "voter fraud" is a very broad term.

For example, two people in Wisconsin were charged with voter fraud for voting both in-person and absentee. Is that voter fraud? Yes. Were they caught? Yes. Would it have been stopped by requiring photo identification? Not in the least.

It's not simply that voter fraud isn't a widespread problem. More importantly, it's that voter fraud of the type that would be prevented by requiring photo identification is not widespread.

[MrsAxilla]

Jul 26, 2012 13:54:36 GMT -5 EllieArroway said:

No, voter fraud is not an issue. I haven't seen any data suggesting it's a real problem. Election fraud is probably a much bigger problem.

You mean like when someone with a clearly established residence in one state claims he lives in his son's basement in another state in order to establish residency to run for office? That kind of election fraud?

[OscarQ]

In the Pennsylvania case it was stipulated in the court filing that the state has not investigated any instances of the exact type of fraud the law seeks to avoid.

www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/07/25/157327705/pa-wont-use-voter-fraud-argument-at-hearing-over-id-law

It's all made up BS designed to disenfranchise voters. Now they're trying to wiggle around it by allowing people to get an id that would be valid for voting only (for 10 years) showing just their SS card and two current proofs of residence. But you're still SOL if you don't have your birth certificate to get the SS card.

Oh, and they're calling this state rep to the stand so he's going to get to elaborate on that statement.

[MixedBerryJam]

Even the attorney general of PA has attested that he will not be bringing evidence of actual fraudulent votes to the judge in this case (past tense; I think the hearing was yesterday). If they had such evidence to support this PA law, I assume they would bring it to the fore, since they need a reason to enact a law. I think the lack of voter fraud is what the plaintiffs are going to argue in the PA case.

[eliseb0323]

VA had reported cases in the last Presidential election of Obama campaign members offering homeless people on the street meals and cash and rides to the voting place. People would be registered to vote on the spot, some without ID, so the issue was non-citizens voting. I recall this was all investigated, but never proven.

[ChillyMcFreeze]

"If you have to stop people from voting to win elections, your ideas suck," Leach said.

Why can't we have more real talk like this in politics??

BTW, the RNLA found that there were 311 cases of voter fraud in 2008, out of 131 million votes cast.
www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/the_evidence_bolstering_voterf034087.php

[msmerymac]

Jul 26, 2012 14:36:45 GMT -5 eliseb0323 said:

VA had reported cases in the last Presidential election of Obama campaign members offering homeless people on the street meals and cash and rides to the voting place. People would be registered to vote on the spot, some without ID, so the issue was non-citizens voting. I recall this was all investigated, but never proven.

Wait, what? Homeless people aren't citizens?

Pretty sure you can't bribe people to vote for you, or campaign at a polling place. Voter eligibility wouldn't be an issue, there. Same-day registration exists in many places. And the constitution does not require you to have ID.

[ttt]

Are there really people who believe the line about voter fraud and don't know it's truly about preventing people from voting the "wrong" way?

[eliseb0323]

This investigation is going on in VA

www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2012/apr/22/tdmain01-va-investigates-voter-fraud-ar-1859666/

[eliseb0323]

And more from VA. Apparently swing states are just full of voter fraud... 8-D

(CBS News) Mitt Romney's presidential campaign is calling on Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli to investigate voter registration forms being sent to deceased relatives, children, and family pets from predominantly Democratic-leaning voting blocs, the Richmond Times-Dispatch reports.

After mailings from the D.C.-based nonprofit Voter Participation Center were exposed Sunday for being addressed to ineligible voters in Virginia, Kathryn Bieber, an attorney for the presumptive GOP nominee's campaign, called for an official probe in a letter to Cuccinelli's office and the State Board of Elections. Bieber said the forms violate "at least one and maybe several Virginia laws aimed at ensuring a fair election."

The mailings, the letter states, "amount to, or at the very least induce, voter registration fraud" in the critical swing state where Romney and President Obama are virtually tied in recent polls.

State Board of Elections deputy secretary Justin Riemer said recipients of the forms - pre-populated with names and addresses - include deceased infants, out-of-state family members, and non-U.S. citizens. According to the Times-Dispatch, the mailers were sent to "primarily Democratic-leaning voting blocs such as young adults, unmarried women, African-Americans and Latinos."

Bieber requested in the letter that registrars be required to reject pre-populated applications from the VPC and inspect eligibility of Virginia voters who have registered within the past two months. VPC CEO Page Gardner said the group mailed around 200,000 third-party registration forms to Virginia addresses in June, resulting in 15,026 newly registered voters as of July 18.

"Imperfections in the VPC vendors' lists - while regrettable and unfortunate - should not be the reason or the excuse to call an entire process that is working into question," the VPC said Monday in a letter posted to its website. The group argued the forms were approved by the State Board of Elections and "are the same applications that anyone can access at a local government office or on the Internet."

[Velvetshady]

Jul 27, 2012 8:36:25 GMT -5 eliseb0323 said:

And more from VA. Apparently swing states are just full of voter fraud...

(CBS News) Mitt Romney's presidential campaign is calling on Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli to investigate voter registration forms being sent to deceased relatives, children, and family pets from predominantly Democratic-leaning voting blocs, the Richmond Times-Dispatch reports.

After mailings from the D.C.-based nonprofit Voter Participation Center were exposed Sunday for being addressed to ineligible voters in Virginia, Kathryn Bieber, an attorney for the presumptive GOP nominee's campaign, called for an official probe in a letter to Cuccinelli's office and the State Board of Elections. Bieber said the forms violate "at least one and maybe several Virginia laws aimed at ensuring a fair election."

The mailings, the letter states, "amount to, or at the very least induce, voter registration fraud" in the critical swing state where Romney and President Obama are virtually tied in recent polls.

State Board of Elections deputy secretary Justin Riemer said recipients of the forms - pre-populated with names and addresses - include deceased infants, out-of-state family members, and non-U.S. citizens. According to the Times-Dispatch, the mailers were sent to "primarily Democratic-leaning voting blocs such as young adults, unmarried women, African-Americans and Latinos."

Bieber requested in the letter that registrars be required to reject pre-populated applications from the VPC and inspect eligibility of Virginia voters who have registered within the past two months. VPC CEO Page Gardner said the group mailed around 200,000 third-party registration forms to Virginia addresses in June, resulting in 15,026 newly registered voters as of July 18.

"Imperfections in the VPC vendors' lists - while regrettable and unfortunate - should not be the reason or the excuse to call an entire process that is working into question," the VPC said Monday in a letter posted to its website. The group argued the forms were approved by the State Board of Elections and "are the same applications that anyone can access at a local government office or on the Internet."

Would this be a good time to point out that I have so far received four mailings from Ken Cuccinelli encouraging me to vote and send him money--and all for sent to different variations of my name. Me thinks I have a valid case to accuse him of attempted voter fraud.

[teflep]

Eh, I hear it here and locally...of all the dead people still on the rolls. Not fraud, but makes for a sensational story, I guess.

[Deleted]

Wide spread in Memphis...mostly because the county is loading ballots for the wrong districts on people's ballots so people who should be voting in one district are shown the screen for another district.

[Deleted]

Jul 27, 2012 9:24:21 GMT -5 teflep said:

Eh, I hear it here and locally...of all the dead people still on the rolls. Not fraud, but makes for a sensational story, I guess.

You're exactly right - it's a sensational story, but not fraud. And as I said above, this isn't something that photo ID will fix.

I'm not aware of any uniform process of removing people from voter rolls. For all I know, I might still be on the rolls in two other states. I know I got a jury summons in Texas a couple of years after I'd registered elsewhere and about 4 months after I got a different state's driver's license.

I don't think there's any coordination between the register of deeds and the election commission. If I died tomorrow, I have no idea how much time would pass before I was taken off the voter rolls in my ward, but I can't imagine anyone impersonating me to vote under my name.

[teflep]

Yeah, I don't know why they would talk to each other, but every election, I hear about this. I also have received where to vote from my home county and my previous one. If I could vote in both, that'd be a problem but I never tried.

[Black Lavender]

Jul 26, 2012 14:22:27 GMT -5 MixedBerryJam said:

Even the attorney general of PA has attested that he will not be bringing evidence of actual fraudulent votes to the judge in this case (past tense; I think the hearing was yesterday). If they had such evidence to support this PA law, I assume they would bring it to the fore, since they need a reason to enact a law. I think the lack of voter fraud is what the plaintiffs are going to argue in the PA case.

I seriously hope they do. There is some ramblings of local county officials who said they will not enforce the law:

www.metro.us/philadelphia/comment/article/1148539--delaware-county-election-official-vows-not-to-enforce-voter-id