Why is it...?

[SwimDeep]

Why is it that my H and I are having the same fucking fights? It's all over who said what and who meant what by saying whatever they said and misunderstandings that were apparently on purpose and...what?!

I thought ditching alcohol would help us talk/argue like rational human beings...I mean like adults. But if I say something that makes him feel accused about anything...holy shit - I'm back in WW3.

I'm so fucking tired, and I'm trying so hard to hold on to hope. We've salvaged our relationship from worse, but it's like I just want to start making positive progress without sabotaging it.
And I can't tell who's sabotaging it. According to him, it's me. When I look at it rationally (which he's pretty sure I can't do because I have no rationality)...it's just fucked up.

Posting to post...I just thought things were supposed to get better once we stopped drinking. They're not getting better. If anything, now that we're not numb, things are getting worse.
Any words of wisdom or comfort would be greatly appreciated.

[flex]

Problems and bad habits do not go away just because a person has stopped drinking. That's what the 12 Steps of AA are for--to help you live life on life's terms.

I forget everyone's story on this board so I apologize in advance if I don't have this right: SwimDeep your H is the one who is in recovery, yes? And you have chosen not to drink in support--is this correct?

If this is correct, is your H going to meetings? Does he have a sponsor? Has he started working the Steps? What the Steps show us is that WE are the problem--not everyone else. We learn not to point the finger to blame others. We look at our own actions--our own way of thinking. If he is saying you're the problem, that tells me he is not actively working the Steps.

I suggest Al-Anon for you if you haven't already tried it.

[Deleted]

SwimDeep, I'm so sorry. You are spot on when you recognize that the problems are still there, just not blurred by the effects of alcohol. I think you attend Al-Anon already, but have you thought about couples counseling? I'd go to someone who understands addition.

In the BB, the family afterward, it says there is a long period of reconstruction. I know that's true. I also know many friends in AA who ended up divorced after they quit drinking. I know those are not words of comfort. Sorry! You can learn to fight fairly. Our fights are really tempered now that I think before I speak. I'd rather do just about anything rather than have to do an amends, so I try to "pause when agitated".

It's a process, sweetie!

[malibu]

I'm sorry, SwimDeep. Remembering your post over on TIP makes me think the drinking wasn't the only issue. I think he's got some deep-seated anger issues and control issues. You have the family who is manipulative and you didn't have the best childhood, yes? What you've posted here and on TIP makes me think you chose a partner who was much like your family, even though you probably didn't know it.

If you decided to separate, what would happen? Do you have someplace to go? Able to support yourself without having to go back to your family, who from your posts doesn't treat you well, either? These questions aren't only based on having a partner in recovery but are using past information as well, and that information I remember is that he manipulates you and tries to control you and beat you down and make you feel guilty.

[SwimDeep]

Thank you so much for the replies. I can't express how much it means to have this place to vent and ask for advice. I'm so bad about internalizing everything and then letting emotion overrun me. Creating this post a couple of days ago really helped me calm down.
Thank you

flex - Yes, my H is the one in recovery. He tells me that his sponsor is currently encouraging him to finish steps 4 and 5...but sometimes I wonder if he really, truly worked step 3. He struggles so much with wanting to control everything (of course, he doesn't see it as a struggle to control. He see's it as people pissing him off intentionally.)
He's not really going to meetings, but he calls his sponsor every day and goes to a meeting every Sunday (and meets with his sponsor for one-on-one conversation an hour before) and sometimes a meeting on Saturday.

I know I need to be attending al-anon regularly, and I'm starting to see how having a sponsor would really help me. Honestly, I'm scared that the people I meet will be scared of me. My emotional problems (and outbursts) can be pretty intense

@courtneyloves - I have suggested couples counseling. I probably bring it up at least once a month. There was a point a few weeks ago where I threw out an ultimatum: "Couples counseling or we're done." Unfortunately, I wasn't strong enough to follow through on that, so it turned into an empty threat. I still have not been able to convince him to come to counseling with me. I'm trying to fight fairly, but he tells me I get "nasty". I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

malibu - drinking definitely is not the only issue. I feel like he's holding onto a lot of anger and a lot of hurt. He's so stressed about wanting a job right now that even the smallest, tiniest things will set him off. Once he's annoyed/irritated, everything makes him angry.
If I decided to separate, I have nowhere to go. I'd probably go to a hotel for a day or two and then find an apartment (I don't know how realistic that is). I'm pretty sure that if I leave, I'm gone for good. I absolutely would not go back to my family. I do have the means to support myself. I just feel incredibly guilty when I think about leaving.
I think it's the "in sickness and in health" part of the vow. I'm extremely torn

Again, thank you all so much for responding. I hope I've answered your questions, and if you have any further advice please give it to me. I truly appreciate it!

[flex]

Working Step 3 is nebulous and intangible: working Steps 4 & 5 is something more concrete--you put it to pen and share it with God and another human being, and somehow the visual makes it more "real". I think he has worked Step 3 to the best of his ability, but now it's time to move on to the healing process.

I've heard the expression of a dance move with those alkies who fail to progress to #4 and 5: One-two-three-OUT!  They keep drinking/using because they avoid progressing in the Steps.

This is the 9th Step Promises from the Big Book:

"If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.
We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.
We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.
We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.
No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.
That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
Self-seeking will slip away.
Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.
Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.
We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us-sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them."

All of these things have come to pass for me because I work the Steps on a regular basis.  I wish the same for your H.  There may come a time when he will wonder why he waited so long for the miracle to happen.

[SwimDeep]

flex - thank you so much for sharing that! It makes so much sense. I have never hoped so hard for patience and understanding in my life. I know this is his journey, and I pray God it doesn't take me leaving for him to get that place of peace that you've reached. He wants it so bad! But he won't let go

I love him. I want him to feel the happiness he craves! But I can't force him to get that point. I can't show him or teach him...I just have to wait.

This is where I give up control, right? Maybe I'm still on step three too?

ETA:
I re-read what you wrote, and I want you to know that I understand what you meant. It's good for him to go ahead and work steps 4 and 5. I want so badly for him to have that healing...it's like I can see the wounds on him, but I can't help him. Can't bandage him. Can't help him work out the knotted muscles. I just have to wait and pray that he finds his healing.

Am I being dramatic? Or does it make sense that it's this hard?

[flex]

Sept 29, 2014 16:32:59 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

flex - thank you so much for sharing that! It makes so much sense. I have never hoped so hard for patience and understanding in my life. I know this is his journey, and I pray God it doesn't take me leaving for him to get that place of peace that you've reached. He wants it so bad! But he won't let go

I love him. I want him to feel the happiness he craves! But I can't force him to get that point. I can't show him or teach him...I just have to wait.

This is where I give up control, right? Maybe I'm still on step three too?

ETA:
I re-read what you wrote, and I want you to know that I understand what you meant. It's good for him to go ahead and work steps 4 and 5. I want so badly for him to have that healing...it's like I can see the wounds on him, but I can't help him. Can't bandage him. Can't help him work out the knotted muscles. I just have to wait and pray that he finds his healing.

Am I being dramatic? Or does it make sense that it's this hard?

I don't think you're being dramatic.  You want to spare him pain, but keep in mind this is his journey.  You have your own journey to take.  ((hugs))

[btay]

((())) Sobriety definitely isn't an instant fix, my H is almost 2 years sober and we are still trying to determine if we have a marriage that is salvageable. I think couples counseling is crucial as well as both of you working a program. If you can't convince him to do couples, then at least make sure you are going as an individual. You can not control his behaviors but you can make a lot of positive steps to focus on your own.

[flex]

My ex-h REFUSED to go into counseling while we were married (unhappily for many years). He said that two grown adults should be able to solve their own problems. Yeah, it's true that should be a solution--as long as one of the spouses isn't an overbearing a-hole. lol