parents - claiming child's US citizenship?

[heygrey]

i'm hoping someone who has already btdt can walk me through this... 

i have a 7 month old, born in canada. i was looking at filing the Consular Report of Birth Abroad, which requires a 10 hour round trip drive and likely an overnight stay to visit the nearest consulate. then i find things that say "The child’s parents may choose to apply for a U.S. passport for the child at the same time that they apply for a CRBA. Parents may also choose to apply only for a U.S. passport for the child. Like a CRBA, a full validity, unexpired U.S. passport is proof of U.S. citizenship." (http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html) 

so i just need to file for a passport? i'll be in the states in two weeks and it would be so much easier go this route. yet when i look up the requirements for filing for a minor's passport it lists "Proof of US Citizenship"... of which we have none. that's kind of the whole point of getting the passport. (http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/under-16.html)

who has experience with this and what did you do? i really appreciate all your advice! 

[frlcb]

I'm confused. Who is the American citizen? You need to get the consular notification of birth abroad and passport and ss number all at the us consulate, all at the same time.

[frlcb]

So you are asking if you need the consular notification of birth abroad? In the UK you just do it all together. You can not legally enter the us without your child having a us passport, but there have always been questions as to how enforceable that is.

[frlcb]

Also when we renewed our sons passport in the US they required his cnba certificate even though he already had a US passport, and this was in the last year.

[heygrey]

Sept 29, 2014 12:21:04 GMT -5 frlcb said:

So you are asking if you need the consular notification of birth abroad? In the UK you just do it all together. You can not legally enter the us without your child having a us passport, but there have always been questions as to how enforceable that is.

yes. official US websites are saying it isn't necessary (what i highlighted in the OP), but to do as they suggest and just get a US passport you need a CRBA (again, according to an official US website). 

I am a US citizen (Canadian permanent resident), h is Canadian. R was born in Canada, is a Canadian citizen, and already has a Canadian passport. we were planning to claim his US citizenship through me because... why not? it opens a world of opportunity to him as an adult for universities and jobs, why deny him that? 

i'm just trying to understand all of the conflicting information i'm finding. if i need to make the trip to the consulate, i will. however, if i can save myself time and money by applying for a US passport when i'm in the US and an office is convenient to me, i'd rather do that. 

R has a Canadian passport and we've already traveled to the US once without issue. once we have his CRBA and a US passport, of course he'll always enter the US on that passport, but until then i don't think we're breaking any laws. 

[frlcb]

Technically by birthright alone he should be entering the US on a US passport from day one. But like I said sometimes it is an issue and sometimes it isn't, it likely depends on where you enter and who you get.

I don't think you will be able to get his US passport in the US without the consular notification of birth abroad. I don't know anyone who has had children born abroad who have applied for a US passport without it.

[heygrey]

Sept 29, 2014 12:58:23 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Technically by birthright alone he should be entering the US on a US passport from day one. But like I said sometimes it is an issue and sometimes it isn't, it likely depends on where you enter and who you get.

I don't think you will be able to get his US passport in the US without the consular notification of birth abroad. I don't know anyone who has had children born abroad who have applied for a US passport without it.

i hate how subjective these things are. i've found a lot of leniency when it comes to traveling between the US and canada. I have at least 5 friends here that have one US parent and one Canadian parent, but the kids have never claimed their US citizenship even though they qualify. we live close to the US border and these friends frequently travel to Washington state to shop or visit their American family, and have never in 20+ years had an issue with it. yet, if you did the same thing coming from overseas, you'd be much more likely to get flack. it seems like for every immigration law, there are a dozen antidotes of how they are only occasionally enforced. 

when i went home this summer with R, my mom picked us up at the toronto airport and we crossed at niagara falls. the border guard was only concerned that i didn't have any baby formula. after his spiel about produce, meat, alcohol, tobacco...
him - "how much baby formula are you bringing into the US?"
me - "none. he is breastfed."
him - "so you dont have any baby formula?"
me - "no."
him - "so how do you feed him."
me - "he is four months old. right now he only has breastmilk."
him - "oh. okay. enjoy your trip."


and yes, i can't see getting a passport without the crba even though it's suggested. i'm going to make an appointment at the consulate and try to get to vancouver before winter and the snow shuts down the mountain passes. 

[Deleted]

Not sure about Canada...

C was born in the UK. He got a British birth certificate (we went to the local registrar to register his birth). We took his British birth certificate along with proof of citizenship for both H and I to the consulate. A few weeks later we got his CRBA and passport in the mail.

My understanding is that you will need a CRBA as proof of birth abroad to American parents, and you will need a US passport if you want to bring the baby back to the US. For anything that you will ever need a birth certificate for, you will need to have the CRBA. You might as well just get both :-)

[callietay]

You should be able to fill this out www.uscis.gov/n-600k and send it in through mail. Read the instructions first to make sure. If you want, if you have any questions let me know and I can double check with my boss (I'm an immigration paralegal)

[frlcb]

Oct 2, 2014 13:15:14 GMT -5 callietay said:

You should be able to fill this out www.uscis.gov/n-600k and send it in through mail. Read the instructions first to make sure. If you want, if you have any questions let me know and I can double check with my boss (I'm an immigration paralegal)

You still have to show up for an interview if you file this, and it would be somewhere in the US. It would be more sense to go and apply for the consular notification of birth abroad and do it all in one go, including getting the passport and ss number.

[callietay]

Oct 2, 2014 13:51:24 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Oct 2, 2014 13:15:14 GMT -5 callietay said:

You should be able to fill this out www.uscis.gov/n-600k and send it in through mail. Read the instructions first to make sure. If you want, if you have any questions let me know and I can double check with my boss (I'm an immigration paralegal)

You still have to show up for an interview if you file this, and it would be somewhere in the US. It would be more sense to go and apply for the consular notification of birth abroad and do it all in one go, including getting the passport and ss number.

Every N-600k I have done on behalf of a minor has had no interview scheduled. Since you are outside the US though, there may be a problem with "physical presence," however, you could use a US grandparent's dates of physical presence.

[frlcb]

Oct 2, 2014 14:37:29 GMT -5 callietay said:

Oct 2, 2014 13:51:24 GMT -5 frlcb said:

You still have to show up for an interview if you file this, and it would be somewhere in the US. It would be more sense to go and apply for the consular notification of birth abroad and do it all in one go, including getting the passport and ss number.

Every N-600k I have done on behalf of a minor has had no interview scheduled. Since you are outside the US though, there may be a problem with "physical presence," however, you could use a US grandparent's dates of physical presence.

What is the benefit of doing this vs applying at a consulate for the crba? It seems like if this was easier they would have everyone do this who live overseas. Why is this $600 and the crba only $100?

[callietay]

Oct 2, 2014 16:09:28 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Oct 2, 2014 14:37:29 GMT -5 callietay said:

Every N-600k I have done on behalf of a minor has had no interview scheduled. Since you are outside the US though, there may be a problem with "physical presence," however, you could use a US grandparent's dates of physical presence.

What is the benefit of doing this vs applying at a consulate for the crba? It seems like if this was easier they would have everyone do this who live overseas. Why is this $600 and the crba only $100?

I don't think it is easier... I suggested it bc of the 10 hour drive and details of her situation. Upon re-reading I see her main problem is needing proof of citizenship... OP, I think if you go the CRBA route with concurrent application for passport you will not need proof of citizenship. If you want to PM me I will provide you with my boss' email address, he really knows his stuff

[frlcb]

Oct 3, 2014 8:14:06 GMT -5 callietay said:

Oct 2, 2014 16:09:28 GMT -5 frlcb said:

What is the benefit of doing this vs applying at a consulate for the crba? It seems like if this was easier they would have everyone do this who live overseas. Why is this $600 and the crba only $100?

I don't think it is easier... I suggested it bc of the 10 hour drive and details of her situation. Upon re-reading I see her main problem is needing proof of citizenship... OP, I think if you go the CRBA route with concurrent application for passport you will not need proof of citizenship. If you want to PM me I will provide you with my boss' email address, he really knows his stuff

. The crba is the proof of citizenship, which is why parents who have children overseas get the crba, and then apply for the passport at the same time.

[heygrey]

Oct 2, 2014 13:15:14 GMT -5 callietay said:

You should be able to fill this out www.uscis.gov/n-600k and send it in through mail. Read the instructions first to make sure. If you want, if you have any questions let me know and I can double check with my boss (I'm an immigration paralegal)

thanks. i did look at this form, but i don't think there is a benefit to this vs. traveling and getting the crba/passport/ssn all at once since the cost is about the same. since my OP i realized there is a consulate in my sil's city and i can get a round trip flight to there cheaper than i can drive to vancouver and without the headache of a long drive with my 7 month old. i'm going to go that route. 

[GilliC]

Sept 29, 2014 12:50:27 GMT -5 heygrey said:

Sept 29, 2014 12:21:04 GMT -5 frlcb said:

So you are asking if you need the consular notification of birth abroad? In the UK you just do it all together. You can not legally enter the us without your child having a us passport, but there have always been questions as to how enforceable that is.

yes. official US websites are saying it isn't necessary (what i highlighted in the OP), but to do as they suggest and just get a US passport you need a CRBA (again, according to an official US website). 

I am a US citizen (Canadian permanent resident), h is Canadian. R was born in Canada, is a Canadian citizen, and already has a Canadian passport. we were planning to claim his US citizenship through me because... why not? it opens a world of opportunity to him as an adult for universities and jobs, why deny him that? 

i'm just trying to understand all of the conflicting information i'm finding. if i need to make the trip to the consulate, i will. however, if i can save myself time and money by applying for a US passport when i'm in the US and an office is convenient to me, i'd rather do that. 

R has a Canadian passport and we've already traveled to the US once without issue. once we have his CRBA and a US passport, of course he'll always enter the US on that passport, but until then i don't think we're breaking any laws. 

The obligation to file a US tax return every year he earns income? The requirement to report all of his bank account numbers and balances to the US every year once he's saved $10K? The potential employment restrictions in the financial sector based on the foreign account reporting regulations? The inability to work with or in US embargoed countries? The hassle of reporting any future Canadian social security to the US as income? The obligation to pay an exit tax if he ever wants to get out of all that and renounce his US citizenship?

Sorry, I assume that was actually a rhetorical question, but I thought I'd answer it anyway. There are many dual citizens who have never lived in the US and have no idea that they're legally required to comply with all of the administrative headaches. Like everything else, it's subjectively enforced. However, as someone who does try to jump through all of the official hoops they keep creating, it bothers me that so many US citizens abroad just carry around the passport and don't will never even realize that they're in violation of half a dozen regulations. Meanwhile many of us are threatened with ridiculous fines for not filing the paperwork every year.

[Deleted]

I did the CRBA, passport and SS# all at once. I think the CRBA is good for if you want to prove your LO is born a US citizen (ie should he wish to run for president one day). You know all that jazz about being a natural born citizen and what-not...although what that means seems to be up for interpretation as well lol

[3girls3xsthefun]

No you don't HAVE to get a CRBA, though it is suggested by the State Dept.

The embassy or consulate can document that your child's citizenship was acquired AT BIRTH through the AmCit parent without a CRBA. They will use the AmCit parents info and the child's birth certificate -- it can certainly be done WITHOUT having a CRBA. A CRBA is another way to get money from you, though

If you apply at a post office or clerk of court in the US (this, IMHO, is the way to go in your particular situation) you will need to submit R's original birth cert and a copy of your passport, and R's father will have to be there to sign (or submit a DS3053). This is common practice for children who acquire citizenship through parents who naturalized -- why pay USCIS $600 when a passport is much cheaper and also prooves citizenship? The State Dept will mail the new passport and supporting docs to you in Canada via First Class mail.

A US passport is proof of both citizenship and identity, while the CRBA is only proof of citizenship, so if you're only going to get one I would go with the passport.

As long as your child is under 16 you will need to supply their ORIGINAL birth certificate (or CRBA if you opt for one) every time the passport is renewed becasue a US passport does not list parental information and kids under 16 need both parents to sign the application, thus documentation of who the parents are is needed.

Let me know if you have any other questions

[frlcb]

Oct 20, 2014 13:18:42 GMT -5 3girls3xsthefun said:

If you apply at a post office or clerk of court in the US (this, IMHO, is the way to go in your particular situation) you will need to submit R's original birth cert and a copy of your passport, and R's father will have to be there to sign (or submit a DS3053). This is common practice for children who acquire citizenship through parents who naturalized -- why pay USCIS $600 when a passport is much cheaper and also prooves citizenship? The State Dept will mail the new passport and supporting docs to you in Canada via First Class mail.

A US passport is proof of both citizenship and identity, while the CRBA is only proof of citizenship, so if you're only going to get one I would go with the passport.

As long as your child is under 16 you will need to supply their ORIGINAL birth certificate (or CRBA if you opt for one) every time the passport is renewed becasue a US passport does not list parental information and kids under 16 need both parents to sign the application, thus documentation of who the parents are is needed.

Let me know if you have any other questions

I assume you mean apply for the passport at the post office or court, correct?

When we renewed my sons passport at the post office they wouldn't take his application with his UK long form birth certificate and without the CRBA. When I pointed out that clearly he was a US citizen since he had a US passport already, and I am a US citizen, they wouldn't budge. We got the supervisor involved and still the answer was no.  While I have no doubt there is major incompetence with them I wouldn't risk it. It is so easy to get the CRBA (and it doesn't cost $600 at the consulate, it is $100) I don't know why you wouldn't just get it.

[3girls3xsthefun]

Yes, I mean apply for the passport at the post office.

The people you dealt with were wrong. They have no business turning away applicants, they are simply postal employees who collect passport fees -- they know nothing about citizenship laws, and frankly their knowledge of mail isn't always the best, lol.

I would have left and gone to another post office. If they would have called the State Dept (they have a direct phone # to a live customer service rep) they would have been told to take in all of the citizenship evidence.

[frlcb]

Oct 21, 2014 12:42:11 GMT -5 3girls3xsthefun said:

Yes, I mean apply for the passport at the post office.

The people you dealt with were wrong. They have no business turning away applicants, they are simply postal employees who collect passport fees -- they know nothing about citizenship laws, and frankly their knowledge of mail isn't always the best, lol.

I would have left and gone to another post office. If they would have called the State Dept (they have a direct phone # to a live customer service rep) they would have been told to take in all of the citizenship evidence.

I don't disagree they were wrong. Unfortunately they were standing their ground, and it took a month for us to get the appt, so going to another post office wasn't an option (all of them here require appts). My point is not that they were correct but that situations like this happen so paying $100 for the crba is worth it to avoid them.