WWYD: Take the money or go to court?

[chloesilverado]

Some of you may remember me from this post:

pandce.proboards.com/thread/365297/update-advice-hairpats-new-puppy

I spoke with the breeder. She agreed to mail me a check for 2/3 the purchase price amount. The day after she was supposed to mail the check she emails me and says she did not mail it. Goes on a rant against me. Says she wants to see medical bills, vet statement, etc. Says the disease is not covered under her health guarantee (it clearly is) and that even if I returned the puppy, she would not issue me a new one, said that I'm contractually obligated to provide medical care and that she could easily find someone to take the dog, etc. She says when she agreed to the 2/3 amount that I grossly overestimated the costs of care and she didn't have enough info to make the offer, etc.

I sent her all my vet bills to date and got a letter from my vet stating it is a genetic inheritable disease. She comes back with that she'll give me 1/2 purchase price since she said I grossly overestimated the cost of care (I quoted $100-$200 per month which I have bills for. However, I have pet insurance so after my deductible they will cover 80% so my out of pocket expenses will probably be less than that. I did not know this when I quoted her the $100-$200 - I was not sure what would be covered but did tell her I have insurance). I told her that is not what we agreed to and I would take her to court if necessary to get what she agreed to.

Today she emails me and says she will give me the 2/3 purchase price cost if I sign a confidentiality agreement. It's basically a gag order saying I cannot talk of this to anyone or sue her for future damages. I found out through her website that she has already re-bred the mother. Since it's an inherited disease there is a good chance new puppies will have it too and their owners will be left to pay.

Part of me wants to go to court to get what she agreed to and not sign this gag order but part of me wants it to be over as well. WWYD? Take the money or stand up in court out of principal and worry another unsuspecting owner will have to deal with this?

[berbles]

pixy0stix might have some good advice.  I know she scorched the earth after adopting a dog that died of parvo, from a place that turned out to be shady as fuck.

[isabel]

What does your health guarantee say she is obligated to do? If she is not fulfilling her terms of the contract, I would be inclined to take her to small claims court. I would do it more out of principle than anything. Either way, she clearly deserves to deal with the repercussions of this. I would be pissed and would want to make sure other people weren't getting dogs from this breeder. I would absolutely write reviews to that effect wherever possible and would take her to small claims court for the full amount of the purchase price, assuming an even trade is what was promised in the contract.

[chloesilverado]

Oct 13, 2014 19:08:42 GMT -5 berbles said:

pixy0stix might have some good advice.  I know she scorched the earth after adopting a dog that died of parvo, from a place that turned out to be shady as fuck.

I have held back on the scorching. It's been really hard. I only recently mentioned taking her to court to get what she agreed to. I'm surprised at the gag order. I'm worried about how it's written and am worried I could be held liable for almost anything. For instance, my dog sitter is someone she co-owns a puppy with. If I tell the dog sitter to give him his Addison's medication I feel like I could be in violation.

[elleblue]

Oct 13, 2014 19:11:52 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

I'd go to court. A gag order? She can go fuck herself.

Yeah. No way no how would I agree to keep silent about her shady practices. 

[lime]

A gag order? No fucking way. Screw her.

[berbles]

Considering she is selling dogs that are going to die (probably painful deaths) and trying to shut you up about it? HELL NO. I wouldn't even give a shit about the money. I'd want her SHUT. DOWN. Go to the press, anything.

[chloesilverado]

Oct 13, 2014 19:12:56 GMT -5 isabel said:

What does your health guarantee say she is obligated to do? If she is not fulfilling her terms of the contract, I would be inclined to take her to small claims court. I would do it more out of principle than anything. Either way, she clearly deserves to deal with the repercussions of this. I would be pissed and would want to make sure other people weren't getting dogs from this breeder. I would absolutely write reviews to that effect wherever possible and would take her to small claims court for the full amount of the purchase price, assuming an even trade is what was promised in the contract.

The guarantee says she will replace the dog with another puppy. However, I have emails from her telling me that she will take the dog back. But not replace him. This is before our vet (we go to the same practice) wrote the letter saying it was an inherited genetic disease. I don't want to return him, said I would pay for his bills. I don't trust getting another puppy fro her anyways. She's bred my dogs's mom to my dogs grandfather ( my dog's father's father). How she thinks the genetics couldn't trend towards Addison's disease is beyond me.

[berbles]

Seriously - do any local news stations have an investigative unit? Contact them.

[chloesilverado]

Oct 13, 2014 19:13:24 GMT -5 mryrcn said:

Oh hell no I would go to court. She also shouldn't be breeding those dogs. Are they AKC registered? I'd report here there as well.

They are. I contacted the AKC and they said they are not responsible for the practices of individual breeders and do not have jurisdiction.

[berbles]

Oct 13, 2014 19:16:32 GMT -5 chloesilverado said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:12:56 GMT -5 isabel said:

What does your health guarantee say she is obligated to do? If she is not fulfilling her terms of the contract, I would be inclined to take her to small claims court. I would do it more out of principle than anything. Either way, she clearly deserves to deal with the repercussions of this. I would be pissed and would want to make sure other people weren't getting dogs from this breeder. I would absolutely write reviews to that effect wherever possible and would take her to small claims court for the full amount of the purchase price, assuming an even trade is what was promised in the contract.

The guarantee says she will replace the dog with another puppy. However, I have emails from her telling me that she will take the dog back. But not replace him. This is before our vet (we go to the same practice) wrote the letter saying it was an inherited genetic disease. I don't want to return him, said I would pay for his bills. I don't trust getting another puppy fro her anyways. She's bred my dogs's mom to my dogs grandfather ( my dog's father's father). How she thinks the genetics couldn't trend towards Addison's disease is beyond me.

Oh, so she's not really even a breeder?  She's a "breeder."  A backyard breeder.  

She needs to die in a fire.  

GET HER SHUT DOWN.  Save other dogs and other people from being put in your position.  Fuck this cunt.

[Deleted]

I'd go to court. Anything to try and get her to stop her shady dog breeding.

[chloesilverado]

Oct 13, 2014 19:16:03 GMT -5 berbles said:

Considering she is selling dogs that are going to die (probably painful deaths) and trying to shut you up about it? HELL NO. I wouldn't even give a shit about the money. I'd want her SHUT. DOWN. Go to the press, anything.

Dogs with Addisons can live relatively normal lives. My dog will probably only need a monthly shot and maybe daily medication. It's fatal if not treated but they still need to have their stress closely monitored, etc.

[jigsy]

I could not in good conscience sign anything that wouldn't allow me to report her for what she is. She is not a reputable breeder and should not be able to tout herself as one. I'd report her to the AKC/whatever breed clubs there may be in the area...and do what I could to make sure her customers know that they are paying for an overpriced backyard breeder.

[chloesilverado]

Oct 13, 2014 19:15:29 GMT -5 lime said:

A gag order? No fucking way. Screw her.

I guess it would be considered a confidentiality agreement?

[berbles]

Oct 13, 2014 19:19:25 GMT -5 chloesilverado said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:15:29 GMT -5 lime said:

A gag order? No fucking way. Screw her.

I guess it would be considered a confidentiality agreement?

Yeah.  NO.

[isabel]

Oct 13, 2014 19:16:32 GMT -5 chloesilverado said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:12:56 GMT -5 isabel said:

What does your health guarantee say she is obligated to do? If she is not fulfilling her terms of the contract, I would be inclined to take her to small claims court. I would do it more out of principle than anything. Either way, she clearly deserves to deal with the repercussions of this. I would be pissed and would want to make sure other people weren't getting dogs from this breeder. I would absolutely write reviews to that effect wherever possible and would take her to small claims court for the full amount of the purchase price, assuming an even trade is what was promised in the contract.

The guarantee says she will replace the dog with another puppy. However, I have emails from her telling me that she will take the dog back. But not replace him. This is before our vet (we go to the same practice) wrote the letter saying it was an inherited genetic disease. I don't want to return him, said I would pay for his bills. I don't trust getting another puppy fro her anyways. She's bred my dogs's mom to my dogs grandfather ( my dog's father's father). How she thinks the genetics couldn't trend towards Addison's disease is beyond me.

That's fucked up. I would NOT sign her gag order and would absolutely write reviews. I would let her know in writing that she is clearly not using proper breeding practices, that I expected a full refund (which I view as equivalent to her giving you a new dog, same loss for her, technically), and that if she didn't comply, given the terms of the contract and previous communication, that I would take her to small claims court. Fuck her.

How's your pup doing, by the way?

[berbles]

Cross post this on the Pets board.

[chloesilverado]

Oct 13, 2014 19:15:48 GMT -5 namasteak said:

I would go to court and tell as many as people as possible that she is breeding a dog that is a known carrier for a genetic disease.

Unfortunately, there is no commercially available test currently to determine if the dog is a carrier or not and the exact genes have not been identified. This is why I worry going to court.

[mcc]

Go to court, and the news. Have a field day

[chloesilverado]

Oct 13, 2014 19:21:40 GMT -5 isabel said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:16:32 GMT -5 chloesilverado said:

The guarantee says she will replace the dog with another puppy. However, I have emails from her telling me that she will take the dog back. But not replace him. This is before our vet (we go to the same practice) wrote the letter saying it was an inherited genetic disease. I don't want to return him, said I would pay for his bills. I don't trust getting another puppy fro her anyways. She's bred my dogs's mom to my dogs grandfather ( my dog's father's father). How she thinks the genetics couldn't trend towards Addison's disease is beyond me.

That's fucked up. I would NOT sign her gag order and would absolutely write reviews. I would let her know in writing that she is clearly not using proper breeding practices, that I expected a full refund (which I view as equivalent to her giving you a new dog, same loss for her, technically), and that if she didn't comply, given the terms of the contract and previous communication, that I would take her to small claims court. Fuck her.

How's your pup doing, by the way?

Thanks - he's doing well. Still getting his meds optimized but beyond some side effects of his treatments (excessive thirst, etc) he's doing ok.

[sassycat]

First off you have the cutest puppy evah!

I would be going to court myself. Doesn't sound like too reputable breeder if she is already breeding the mother knowing that there is a genetic issue that could be passed on. Shame on her.

[isabel]

Oct 13, 2014 19:22:12 GMT -5 chloesilverado said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:15:48 GMT -5 namasteak said:

I would go to court and tell as many as people as possible that she is breeding a dog that is a known carrier for a genetic disease.

Unfortunately, there is no commercially available test currently to determine if the dog is a carrier or not and the exact genes have not been identified. This is why I worry going to court.

I would go to court, more than anything, so that you don't have to sign the agreement she wants you to sign, not because there's something to prove regarding the disease. That said, I think you can easily make a case for the magistrate that this is an inherited genetic disease and that the breeder is inter-breeding related dogs, therefore increasing the likelihood of more puppies with this disease. This is the reason why you don't want her to replace your dog- you don't trust that another animal she gives you wouldn't also have this genetic disease. Therefore, the only reasonable solution is for her to return your money in full. Plus, by not signing the agreement, you are free to (truthfully) blast her all over the internet.

[lime]

Oct 13, 2014 19:21:09 GMT -5 berbles said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:19:25 GMT -5 chloesilverado said:

I guess it would be considered a confidentiality agreement?

Yeah.  NO.

Well, the label is less important than the intention behind it. 

[berbles]

Oct 13, 2014 19:28:21 GMT -5 lime said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:21:09 GMT -5 berbles said:

Yeah.  NO.

Well, the label is less important than the intention behind it. 

What I meant was, you don't sign ANY legal document promising to protect someone who is doing something unethical, not to mention potentially illegal.

[lime]

Oct 13, 2014 19:30:24 GMT -5 berbles said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:28:21 GMT -5 lime said:

Well, the label is less important than the intention behind it. 

What I meant was, you don't sign ANY legal document promising to protect someone who is doing something unethical, not to mention potentially illegal.

We are saying the same, trust. 

I'd have rented a billboard on an interstate trashing her at this point, most likely. 

[shopgirl07]

First, before you go the court route, email her back and demand a full refund (or 2/3rds if you're feeling charitable) and tell her you won't sign a confidentiality agreement. See what she says.

[jlt19]

Oct 13, 2014 19:18:53 GMT -5 chloesilverado said:

Oct 13, 2014 19:16:03 GMT -5 berbles said:

Considering she is selling dogs that are going to die (probably painful deaths) and trying to shut you up about it? HELL NO. I wouldn't even give a shit about the money. I'd want her SHUT. DOWN. Go to the press, anything.

Dogs with Addisons can live relatively normal lives. My dog will probably only need a monthly shot and maybe daily medication. It's fatal if not treated but they still need to have their stress closely monitored, etc.

Key word here is *can*. I'm not trying to scare you, but I had a great dane from a VERY similar breeder that was dx at 9 months. He died at 4. You have no idea what I went through with that dog. Two different types of cancer, fucking ecoli in his face (no clue how that even happened, but it blew up to a huge mass and ruptured in the middle of the night) , and none of those are what killed him. It was the Addison's. He went into a crisis and never pulled out. NO clue why he went into it, but he was at the vet, then evet immediately. He was 90lbs and hairless when he died. I probably spent over $10k on that dog in the 4.5 years I had him.

I am LIVID that she's still breeding the mom, but I'm not surprised. Fuck her and her fucking gag order.

[chloesilverado]

Oct 13, 2014 19:40:14 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

First, before you go the court route, email her back and demand a full refund (or 2/3rds if you're feeling charitable) and tell her you won't sign a confidentiality agreement. See what she says.

I had already requested 2/3 and I'd like to stick with that amount since that was the original agreement. she had offered 1/2 before the gag order popped up and I to,d her that was not our agreement and told her if I had to go to court for the 2/3 I would plus the cost of legal fees and out of pocket expenses. That is she she said she would give me the 2/3 after I signed the agreement.

[nomad100]

Take her to court. She needs to live up to the contract. And the Gag Order is total bullshit. She is trying to cover her ass because she wants to keep breeding these two dogs. What an unethical hag.

I have an Addisonian dog and yes, the medications are expensive. I would say about $70- 80/month for a 60-ish lb dog once you figure in the pills, shots and regular blood tests. She was diagnosed at 3 and is almost 5 now, so we likely have another 5-8 years of the daily pills and monthly shots. Our sweet Pointer/Boxer mix Willow has gotten the shaft from her Pointer background since they are known for both Addison's and hypothyroidism and she had both. So she is a medical wreck. But we love her.

I will say that after doing a shitton of research on Addison's in dogs, that while it is apparent that there is a genetic component to the disease, there isn't a definite test to ID the genetic marker in dogs to see if they will develop the disease, even in the breeds that have a tendency toward the disease (not sure if Frenchies are known to develop it or not). So while she is a shitty human, who shouldn't be breeding any dogs that has an Addisonian pup, there is currently no test she could have run to check for to see if your pup would develop Addison's.