While it may not affect me, it will affect my kids, and has affected most of my family members. I disagree that I just have to sit down and listen to others dictate how I am to understand racism.
You have absolutely zero knowledge of what it's like to live your life as a minority. So yeah, I would suggest that you maybe fucking listen to others WHO HAVE talk about how something is racist or how racial assumptions and undertones can be separate but not that much better than outright racism without assuming that your knowledge of it or definition of it is somehow better or more correct than theirs. I mean, if your kids are, say, mowing your yard and somebody walking by compliments them on it and says they wish they could find a gardener who did such a good job and they get offended, are you going to sit there and talk to them about the intent and the feelings of the person who just made a blatantly racial assumption?
I cannot IMAGINE Jermys rolling in here acting basic and brand fucking new like you have, trying to tell a bunch of black women how racism should be defined and understood and yet she is in the same situation of having children who will have to deal with racial issues she never will. Take a fucking lesson, lady.
Kevin asked why I am still fighting this, and this last post points to the reason. In my position, I have to help my kids understand when something is racist and when it is not. I have to help them understand that not every slight that comes their way from a white person is racist, while some things clearly are, and I'll have to teach them when and how to fight back when they are held back because of someone else's racist action or words.
I entered this post to give my opinion, like everyone else, and I was not the only person who maintained that it was not necessarily racist, but it was ill informed, rude, and unnecessary. You, yourself, Nugget, said this. We are in agreement.
This argument is not over the specifics here, but over the generalization. I continued because I wanted to hear why it's only okay to dismiss intentions when the mother was black with a white child, but instead of answering this point, the responses keep going back to the idea that it couldn't possibly have been meant any other way. This seems to be an impasse.
NitaXorangeblossom @smorriso @songforyou Jermys I AM PUTTING OUT THE SIGNAL BECAUSE THIS IS SOME NEXT LEVEL FOOLISHNESS RIGHT NOW.
I don't have time to read all of the responses, but I like the response elle gave. Yes, it was racist, as people of color are stereotyped as nannies.
Also, if you are not a person of color, you don't get to decide if something is racist or not. EVER. It may seem asinine or crazy to you, that a POC would think something is racist, but you just don't get to say "It's not racist, because I don't think it is". Nope, nope, nope.
Before it's even thrown out there, that I agree that I agree with every incident that's deemed racist, I don't, and I give my opinion to a POC, if I think they're reaching for the racist element.
However, just because something was asked out of innocence and not intended to be racist, doesn't make it less so. It's called casual racism. Look at the whole dust up over Shonda Rhimes and that NYT article, where she was called angry black woman, and she was supposed to take that as a compliment. Uh no, that's racist.
Wait...so you're going to teach your kids that sometimes people will say racist things to them and to basically deal with it because they didn't mean it?
No. Absolutely not. They shouldn't be taught WHEN to fight back, racism needs to be fought because it's a disgusting cancer in our society.
I would never teach my kid to endure something hateful regardless of intentions. That literally turns my stomach.
You have absolutely zero knowledge of what it's like to live your life as a minority. So yeah, I would suggest that you maybe fucking listen to others WHO HAVE talk about how something is racist or how racial assumptions and undertones can be separate but not that much better than outright racism without assuming that your knowledge of it or definition of it is somehow better or more correct than theirs. I mean, if your kids are, say, mowing your yard and somebody walking by compliments them on it and says they wish they could find a gardener who did such a good job and they get offended, are you going to sit there and talk to them about the intent and the feelings of the person who just made a blatantly racial assumption?
I cannot IMAGINE Jermys rolling in here acting basic and brand fucking new like you have, trying to tell a bunch of black women how racism should be defined and understood and yet she is in the same situation of having children who will have to deal with racial issues she never will. Take a fucking lesson, lady.
Kevin asked why I am still fighting this, and this last post points to the reason. In my position, I have to help my kids understand when something is racist and when it is not. I have to help them understand that not every slight that comes their way from a white person is racist, while some things clearly are, and I'll have to teach them when and how to fight back when they are held back because of someone else's racist action or words.
I entered this post to give my opinion, like everyone else, and I was not the only person who maintained that it was not necessarily racist, but it was ill informed, rude, and unnecessary. You, yourself, Nugget, said this. We are in agreement.
This argument is not over the specifics here, but over the generalization. I continued because I wanted to hear why it's only okay to dismiss intentions when the mother was black with a white child, but instead of answering this point, the responses keep going back to the idea that it couldn't possibly have been meant any other way. This seems to be an impasse.
Ok, I'll bite.
Statiscally speaking, minority mothers are less likely to adopt outside their race than white mothers. So far a passerby to automatically jump to "are you the help?" instead of the logical interracial family makes the statement more racially insensitive than if it were asked of a white mother.
No, it's in quotes because I think it's the same thing add saying racially motivated or racist. I don't see how you can say it *absolutely* had racial undertones but may not be racist.
BECAUSE SHE ASKED THE QUESTION TO A BLACK WOMAN WITH WHITE LOOKING BABIES. WHAT THE FUCK.
While it may not affect me, it will affect my kids, and has affected most of my family members. I disagree that I just have to sit down and listen to others dictate how I am to understand racism.
Maybe you should GO SAT DOWN and listen to people who have, you know, experienced racism their entire lives. You can't honestly think you, as a person who has been "treated white" her entire life, understand racism in our society.
Frankly, I am disgusted you are not deferring to those very people in this post. You sound incredibly sheltered and pompous.
Can I just say that I personally love when GO SAT DOWN is used on other boards?
Kevin asked why I am still fighting this, and this last post points to the reason. In my position, I have to help my kids understand when something is racist and when it is not. I have to help them understand that not every slight that comes their way from a white person is racist, while some things clearly are, and I'll have to teach them when and how to fight back when they are held back because of someone else's racist action or words.
I entered this post to give my opinion, like everyone else, and I was not the only person who maintained that it was not necessarily racist, but it was ill informed, rude, and unnecessary. You, yourself, Nugget, said this. We are in agreement.
This argument is not over the specifics here, but over the generalization. I continued because I wanted to hear why it's only okay to dismiss intentions when the mother was black with a white child, but instead of answering this point, the responses keep going back to the idea that it couldn't possibly have been meant any other way. This seems to be an impasse.
Ok, I'll bite.
Statiscally speaking, minority mothers are less likely to adopt outside their race than white mothers. So far a passerby to automatically jump to "are you the help?" instead of the logical interracial family makes the statement more racially insensitive than if it were asked of a white mother.
This makes sense, and is something i hasn't considered.
It still doesn't address why it could be seem to be a comment about age with a white mother, but not with a black mother.
And you know what? If your kid comes to you and says "Hey, Mom, this lady said something to me that upset me because I feel like she only said it because I'm Hispanic" and your response is to tell him that he should consider the intent behind it and that not all white people are racist then you are failing at parenting, goddamnit.
Wait...so you're going to teach your kids that sometimes people will say racist things to them and to basically deal with it because they didn't mean it?
No. Absolutely not. They shouldn't be taught WHEN to fight back, racism needs to be fought because it's a disgusting cancer in our society.
I would never teach my kid to endure something hateful regardless of intentions. That literally turns my stomach.
And I am quietly seething at the idea of you feeling you have to "help them understand" that not every slight that comes their way from a white person is racist. My mom never had to "help me understand" that shit because I figured it the fuck out my damn self. Contrary to what appears to be your belief, people of color don't default to assuming that the white dude who cut in line at the store or the white lady who was curt at the doctor's office did so because they're racist unless they are specifically taught otherwise. Jesus fucking Christ.
I do not believe that, and would appreciate if you would refrain from assigning beliefs to me.
And you know what? If your kid comes to you and says "Hey, Mom, this lady said something to me that upset me because I feel like she only said it because I'm Hispanic" and your response is to tell him that he should consider the intent behind it and that not all white people are racist then you are failing at parenting, goddamnit.
Of course that wouldn't be my response.
You, CS, really need to revise your opinion on racism. It does not exist simply because you choose to acknowledge it - it's not a choice. You don't get to decide it's happened. It just happens.
I never say this, but I do feel sorry for your children, because your understanding of race is very weak, and they are going to have to deal with it.
Post by Captain Serious on Oct 21, 2014 11:33:39 GMT -5
Kevin, please show me where I said all people if color assume all slights from whites are racially motivated or where I said that I would yell my children to ignore racial acts or words.
While it may not affect me, it will affect my kids, and has affected most of my family members. I disagree that I just have to sit down and listen to others dictate how I am to understand racism.
Ahh, yes. You not only have friends who are POC, you have CHILDREN who are. Now that IS a new twist.
My friend (she is white as is her husband) adopted two black babies (a girl and boy). They are a year apart in age and they were born and adopted locally. EVERY single time I am out with them (which is a lot) she is asked, "Where did you get them?" or some variation of that question. When I have babysat for her I have been asked the same question (I'm white). She (nor I) have ever been asked if we were the Nanny. That's all I have to add.
You, CS, really need to revise your opinion on racism. It does not exist simply because you choose to acknowledge it - it's not a choice. You don't get to decide it's happened. It just happens.
I never say this, but I do feel sorry for your children, because your understanding of race is very weak, and they are going to have to deal with it.
So, not to say the same thing that others have already said, but yes, it is bigoted/racially insensitive to think that black people couldn't possibly have a fair skinned child. The immediate assumption here is that you couldn't have possibly birthed that child and instead of thinking said child is adopted, you assume that the role of that person is The Help. The Nanny. The Caretaker. The Paid Servant/Staff of some well to do person who can afford to have help.
My sister would get this all.the.time. It mattered not that her husband was white and the result was a fair skinned child with red hair and freckles. (Whose red hair and freckles actually comes from the black side of the family). She was just asked if she was the nanny. That's all.
The historical background again is that women of color were hired to care for white folks' kids. Desipte the fact that you have au pairs and all that jazz, those historical perspectives don't just die out. If they did, we'd have conquered racism by now, right?
While it may not affect me, it will affect my kids, and has affected most of my family members. I disagree that I just have to sit down and listen to others dictate how I am to understand racism.
Ahh, yes. You not only have friends who are POC, you have CHILDREN who are. Now that IS a new twist.
Children, a father, most my family. Yes, it's clearly the same thing.
Kevin, please show me where I said all people if color assume all slights from whites are racially motivated or where I said that I would yell my children to ignore racial acts or words.
I have to help them understand that not every slight that comes their way from a white person is racist, while some things clearly are, and I'll have to teach them when and how to fight back when they are held back because of someone else's racist action or words.
This implies that some of those times you shouldn't fight back.
CS, babe. You know most people who are racist don't come at it like, "Fucking black people, I hate them!" It usually IS self-proclaimed "good" intent mixed with ignorance, like "I love black people, they make great football players!"
Statiscally speaking, minority mothers are less likely to adopt outside their race than white mothers. So far a passerby to automatically jump to "are you the help?" instead of the logical interracial family makes the statement more racially insensitive than if it were asked of a white mother.
This makes sense, and is something i hasn't considered.
It still doesn't address why it could be seem to be a comment about age with a white mother, but not with a black mother.
I'm not trying to be an ass but I have no idea what you are looking for with this question? I'm not even sure I understand the question.
While it may not affect me, it will affect my kids, and has affected most of my family members. I disagree that I just have to sit down and listen to others dictate how I am to understand racism.
Ahh, yes. You not only have friends who are POC, you have CHILDREN who are. Now that IS a new twist.
You, CS, really need to revise your opinion on racism. It does not exist simply because you choose to acknowledge it - it's not a choice. You don't get to decide it's happened. It just happens.
I never say this, but I do feel sorry for your children, because your understanding of race is very weak, and they are going to have to deal with it.
I do not believe that, and would appreciate if you would refrain from assigning beliefs to me.
Explain, then, how you feel you need to "help them understand" that. How exactly are you planning on helping them understand that. Because you are saying some bullshit things, and then when people are calling you on those bullshit things suddenly you are all "THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID" when that is absolutely the fuck what you said.
I really can't sum up a lifetime of how I am raising my kids into a post I wish had died a long time ago. I raise them to understand that racism exists, people fear what is different, and when they fear others, they treat them poorly and try to control them. I also raise my children to understand that intentions matter. They matter in everyday life and they matter in the law. When they do something wrong, we ask why and what they were thinking, and we discuss/punish/make amends from there. If they don't understand something we discuss it; we are always open to that.
It might surprise you that I actually have the opposite problem, as do a lot of interracial families created by adoption, in which my older son frequently tries to avoid other Peruvians, Hispanics, and predominantly black/Hispanic neighborhoods. We go out of or way to encourage a positive connection and self-worth, frequent Peruvian and other Hispanic restaurants and stores, etc. Sometimes he's okay with it and sometimes he's not, but he would prefer to only go to others, which are more white, English-only places, if it were up to him.
As I said, this is common in interracial adoptive families. So contrary to your belief that I am teaching my son to overlook racism, I am teaching him about it, while also contending with his own uneasiness in certain neighborhoods and situations.
Kevin, please show me where I said all people if color assume all slights from whites are racially motivated or where I said that I would yell my children to ignore racial acts or words.
I have to help them understand that not every slight that comes their way from a white person is racist, while some things clearly are, and I'll have to teach them when and how to fight back when they are held back because of someone else's racist action or words.
This implies that some of those times you shouldn't fight back.
Yes, in my haste, that statement wasn't entirely clear. It should have read, " I have to help them understand that not every slight that comes their way from a white person is racist, while some things clearly are, and I'll have to teach them how and when to fight back and how to fight back (i.e., when they are held back because of someone else's racist action or words)."
This makes sense, and is something i hasn't considered.
It still doesn't address why it could be seem to be a comment about age with a white mother, but not with a black mother.
I'm not trying to be an ass but I have no idea what you are looking for with this question? I'm not even sure I understand the question.
It's my whole point, LLL. The arguement was made that if it is a white mother with a black baby, the speaker could have been complementing the mother's age, but in the case of a black mother with a white baby, the only thing that could have been meant was that she was the help, and therefore the comment was racist.