Anyone familiar with 4H...

[readyin07]

Random question time...

My son's kindergarten teacher is raising a pig for 4-H. Well, her 3rd grade son is. I was asking her about it and what it's future held lol and she told me that there was a rule that all the 4H animals had to be, um, slaughtered before leaving the fairgrounds (assuming this doesn't include, like, the bunnies and such). She said that some people would buy their kid's animal and let them keep it as a pet.

My question is, if the parent is willing to buy the animal as a pet why wouldn't be 4H be ok with it? It's still being sold. I mean I get that kids have to learn where their bacon come from and it's part of the "farming life" to not get attached to animals you are going to eat, but I am feeling all Fern-ish from Charlotte's Web here   

[zaneyzoo]

4H is big around here. It is a learning experience and circle of life stuff. But yes, the animals here are sold to people who then slaughter them. Other people will buy their animals back and keep them.

The animals don't get slaughtered at the fairgrounds here. After they are sold, they are taken to the slaughterhouse. I bet it's the same thing there.

[rosiebear]

I was in 4-H, but not to raise animals. This sounds odd to me, but now my interest is piqued.

I mean, they don't have an actual killing floor at the fair, as far as I know, so something is getting lost in translation.

[Deleted]

I've never heard that rule. I showed a heifer once and we did slaughter it, but it wasn't required.

Also we all owned our own animals. No one was provided an animal to compete with.

[Deleted]

I live in Michafan and even if a parent buys the pig, it still get slaughtered. They come in about 3:00 am the last day of fair and load them up. As far as I know, there are no exceptions. My friend's son showed pigs for the first time ever this year and he bawled his eyes out the last day of fair. It was sad, but they need to have the rule otherwise half the kids would be taking a pig home and that's not really what it's all about.

[Deleted]

Oh you know what.... Now I am remembering that you could "make sale" and your animal was sold. I think I was too young to know what was actually going on and I obviously didn't make sale.

[Deleted]

My cows name was precious and I refused to eat it. Lol

Also, it ran away from me in the ring while I was showing it. I just stood there and let the judge chase it around. He brought it back to me and was not very happy. Needless to say, I didn't win any ribbons.

[mrs.jacinthe]

That doesn't sound right, unless it's a local requirement. Our fair show required that livestock raised as a meat project, including poultry, beef, goats, pork, and meat pen rabbits (provided they met certain qualifications) had to be sold at the 4H/Junior Fair livestock auction. Buyers had to make arrangements for said animal prior to the fair being over, but there was no slaughter allowed on the fairgrounds proper for sake of not traumatizing children or making a mess (slaughter is not a neat process). For example, if you purchase a steer at the beef auction and want the meat, you have to make arrangements for the slaughterhouse to come pick it up on release day so they can do their thing. If you want, you can instead donate the animal - either to a local food bank or back to the 4Her who raised it.

TL;DR - Unless its a local requirement or 4H has changed their project rules lately, meat project animals can be donated back, but MUST be sold at auction.

[readyin07]

Nov 4, 2014 16:09:09 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

That doesn't sound right, unless it's a local requirement. Our fair show required that livestock raised as a meat project, including poultry, beef, goats, pork, and meat pen rabbits (provided they met certain qualifications) had to be sold at the 4H/Junior Fair livestock auction. Buyers had to make arrangements for said animal prior to the fair being over, but there was no slaughter allowed on the fairgrounds proper for sake of not traumatizing children or making a mess (slaughter is not a neat process). For example, if you purchase a steer at the beef auction and want the meat, you have to make arrangements for the slaughterhouse to come pick it up on release day so they can do their thing. If you want, you can instead donate the animal - either to a local food bank or back to the 4Her who raised it.

TL;DR - Unless its a local requirement or 4H has changed their project rules lately, meat project animals can be donated back, but MUST be sold at auction.

Yeah, I definitely don't think she was saying they did the slaughter *there,* but that was basically where they had to end up. Maybe she confused having to be sold with having to be sold to be eaten. I mean, I don't think she personally want their grown 250-pound pig back so that's what is going to happen anyway.

But me personally.   I would clearly not be a good fit for this lol.

[textbookcase]

Nov 4, 2014 16:09:09 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

That doesn't sound right, unless it's a local requirement. Our fair show required that livestock raised as a meat project, including poultry, beef, goats, pork, and meat pen rabbits (provided they met certain qualifications) had to be sold at the 4H/Junior Fair livestock auction. Buyers had to make arrangements for said animal prior to the fair being over, but there was no slaughter allowed on the fairgrounds proper for sake of not traumatizing children or making a mess (slaughter is not a neat process). For example, if you purchase a steer at the beef auction and want the meat, you have to make arrangements for the slaughterhouse to come pick it up on release day so they can do their thing. If you want, you can instead donate the animal - either to a local food bank or back to the 4Her who raised it.

TL;DR - Unless its a local requirement or 4H has changed their project rules lately, meat project animals can be donated back, but MUST be sold at auction.

Yes, this is all correct! We're super involved in 4h, I'm a project leader, etc etc. No slaughter takes place at the fair! Most of the larger meat animals (beef, swine, goats, etc) are all sold at auction and the buyer arranges slaughter, etc. Some animals are donated back to the kid for a breeding project, or as pets. I'm a rabbit leader and all rabbits, while they are technically "sold" at auction, are donated back to the kids to keep as pets or to use in a breeding project.

[mrs.jacinthe]

Nov 4, 2014 16:19:51 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

Nov 4, 2014 16:09:09 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

That doesn't sound right, unless it's a local requirement. Our fair show required that livestock raised as a meat project, including poultry, beef, goats, pork, and meat pen rabbits (provided they met certain qualifications) had to be sold at the 4H/Junior Fair livestock auction. Buyers had to make arrangements for said animal prior to the fair being over, but there was no slaughter allowed on the fairgrounds proper for sake of not traumatizing children or making a mess (slaughter is not a neat process). For example, if you purchase a steer at the beef auction and want the meat, you have to make arrangements for the slaughterhouse to come pick it up on release day so they can do their thing. If you want, you can instead donate the animal - either to a local food bank or back to the 4Her who raised it.

TL;DR - Unless its a local requirement or 4H has changed their project rules lately, meat project animals can be donated back, but MUST be sold at auction.

Yeah, I definitely don't think she was saying they did the slaughter *there,* but that was basically where they had to end up. Maybe she confused having to be sold with having to be sold to be eaten. I mean, I don't think she personally want their grown 250-pound pig back so that's what is going to happen anyway.

But me personally.   I would clearly not be a good fit for this lol.

There are plenty of non-meat projects in 4H.  You don't even have to raise animals.  I did an animal project every year (although not for meat, I bred guinea pigs), but I also did sewing, cake decorating, photography, and domestic/pet cat.

[twodogsandababy]

We did 4H and that was the idea for the market animal project. I never did market, but several friends did for larger animals. I know market animals had to be sold, but you could choose to transport/butcher privately, though most went with the contract butcher. On the last morning of fair, after the auction, a big trailer would come and load up all the animals for butcher. I always helped keep the younger kids away from the barns. It was sad for some, but most were okay with it because they knew all along that it would not be coming home.
ETA-animals did not have to be butchered, but did have to be "sold". Some were donated or kept.

[stephm0188]

What everyone else said.

I always chose not to do meat projects because I didn't want to get attached. But yeah, it's pretty understood from the day that you choose a meat project that you are raising an animal for meat and not as a pet. I think it sounds a little harsh if you aren't from a farm community, but for most kids in 4-H, it's a way of life and pretty understood.

[bernergirl]

This must vary with states/counties. granted, it's been 14 years since I showed cattle, but there was never a mass livestock auction at the end of the fair. My market cattle went back home with me and we sold them with our other stock. The winners of each market weight class category would often show them further at state fair (where there was an auction but I believe not mandatory; I never showed at that level so can't say for sure). For breeding cattle, definitely no auction.

[emjacobs]

End of year livestock projects participate in the Show and Sale, the animals are auctioned off and then they go to slaughter. They are not slaughtered on-site, and some go into the buyers breeding program. It's hard to load up your first livestock project on someone else's trailer and know that's it but if this is something that they want to be involved in it is best to let nature take its course and let the animal be sold to the highest bidder. It is not a pet. It is a livestock animal that will grow to be several hundred pounds and is grown to be used for meat.

Technically, yes a parent could be the highest bidder and protect the child from the pain of knowing that their project was turned into food.

I remember watching my dad load my first beef project on the trailer, it was sad but I got over it. I also grew up on a farm that slaughtered yearly for food, it was life. I think it teaches a lot about where your food comes from and the importance of proper care.

[Cowbells]

Total lurker butting in here. Most hog shows (4-H, FFA, open) have become terminal shows (kill shows, not at the show, but the pig doesn't get to go home with anyone) because of Porcine Epidemic Diarrhea (PED). It's all about biosecurity. PED is easily spread in feces and co-mingling of pigs at places like a 4-H show is an excellent place to spread the disease. If a pig goes home from one of those shows and has been exposed to the disease it can basically devastate the farm it goes home to because PED has a very high mortality rate in piglets.

[soozy87]

Yes, often this is the rule for hog shows, but in the case of dairy cattle, rabbits, beef cattle, sheep, and pretty much any other animal they are able to go home with the 4-Her.

[readyin07]

Nov 4, 2014 17:20:38 GMT -5 Cowbells said:

Total lurker butting in here. Most hog shows (4-H, FFA, open) have become terminal shows (kill shows, not at the show, but the pig doesn't get to go home with anyone) because of Porcine Epidemic Diarrhea (PED). It's all about biosecurity. PED is easily spread in feces and co-mingling of pigs at places like a 4-H show is an excellent place to spread the disease. If a pig goes home from one of those shows and has been exposed to the disease it can basically devastate the farm it goes home to because PED has a very high mortality rate in piglets.

You learn something new every day!

[zlayrie]

Market animals (hogs, sheep, cattle) have to be sent to slaughter to prevent the spread of disease. Large amounts of animals together... It's a breeding ground for different diseases. Taking the animal home would put all your other animals at risk. It's a big deal, so there's a blanket rule. Swine fever was big when I was showing; I heard of several farmers who had to slaughter their entire herd.

[zzuvet]

Some one may have said this already but, the animals have to be slaughtered in market classes because they are judged in carcass quality. Kids receive ribbons and prize money based on the quality of meat. Typically on the last day of the fair there is an auction where people buy the animals, those animals are butchered and graded and then the people who bought them get the meat.

[bernsteincat]

Other lurker here. When I showed sheep a billion years ago in KY, it wasn't a a requirement that the animals be sold at the state fair, but I do know most people who weren't part of large operations took advantage of the buyers that were on-site. I vividly remember my mom leading off one of my lambs my last year. It was... sad. My other one was brought back home and was sold a couple months later. We definitely went in from the beginning understanding they were market lambs and being raised for meat and would 100% be sold. Circle of life and all that.

Damn, I miss showing my sheeps. That was a fun time.