I'm thinking of trying this. So far I only read the first step about stretching feedings to 4 hours and I plan to start trying to get her on that feeding routine maybe tomorrow.
If you tried the methods in this book can you give me some feedback? Did you follow it to a T or were some things useful but others not so much? Any advice about bumps in the road or advice for getting started?
DD already has herself waking to eat only once a night (yay!) but she still eats 2-3 oz every 1.2 - 2 hours during the day (FF). So she snacks. But I think dropping that night feeding won't be too hard to do eventually. She's just over 8 weeks and weighs around 11 lbs and drinks on average 25-30 oz formula a day and according to the author she meets all the requirements needed to be able to be sleep trained.
I'm not sure how I'll be able to get her to 4 hour feedings but I guess I'll just have to stretch a little bit each time. Today I am trying to go at least 2 hr 15 min to 2.5 hrs between feedings and have her eat more at each one.
I hope to eventually have her on a 6 am - 6 pm schedule since that is when she will need to be up for when I return to work. I am a little confused on how to do all of this when between 4-9 she has her witching hour(s) and bedtime is usually 9 without any routine (i.e. she passes out after screaming and we don't dare touch her!). I noticed most of these sleep help books never take into account when the evening hours are chaotic, but I haven't finished the book so maybe it's in there somehwere. Maybe try to follow a routine as much as possible and hope she'll fall into it?
So this is not a good question to ask? I just wondered if anyone had did this and found it useful. I read in a post on here the other day someone was following this book, they said they recommended it, and thought I would check it out.
I'll just say that it's a pretty extreme expectation that the vast majority of us didn't find to be possible. The reason the book doesn't make sense to you... is that it doesn't make sense for most babies.
I don't know anything about the behaviour of a FF baby. All I know is that I'm only cutting my baby's night feed now. At 15 months. Which is sooner than I did it with DS.
I'll just say that it's a pretty extreme expectation that the vast majority of us didn't find to be possible. The reason the book doesn't make sense to you... is that it doesn't make sense for most babies.
I don't know anything about the behaviour of a FF baby. All I know is that I'm only cutting my baby's night feed now. At 15 months. Which is sooner than I did it with DS.
Well, that is what I was wondering.
I feel she has no routine right now and always had a bottle in her mouth, but that may be normal. But I'm not sure. When I checked out the book I saw someone recommended I thought maybe this might be a good thing to work towards but that is why I asked.
If this is a really extreme and out of reach expectation then I would like to know before I start trying. I do feel, however, that she uses the bottle to soothe rather than feed at the moment, but I'll ask her pedi when we go next week.
And don't expect this to continue. When you think you've got the hang of something, the baby will change things up.
You shouldn't sleep train this early. Wait.
I have to say her sleeping is pretty good for this age with only one wake up - I'm hoping that is something she won't change up! But I hear at 4 months things an get hectic.
omg no. your baby is only 8 weeks old? it is completely ridiculous to sleep train your baby at this age (or even 12 weeks). it doesn't matter that she meets the "requirements" set forth by the author. apparently the author doesn't understand that every baby is different, has different needs and comforts.
ds1 was EBF and didn't STTN until 13 months. i fed on demand. he ate every 2 hours during the day and night until like 8 months.
ds2 is now EFF and just starting to STTN at 7 months. he takes 6oz bottles during the day, every 3 hours. he can't go longer than that.
i think you have completely unrealistic expectations of an 8 week old baby and you'll be much happier if you lower those expectations.
I didn't want to jump all over you because there are people (on this board even) that did it. And according to them, it worked wonderfully.
It's just the opposite of my parenting philosophy.
Right, I hear ya. I guess it does depend on a person's personal philosophy. I guess like CIO, many people swear by it and others find it to be horrible and ineffective.
i think you have completely unrealistic expectations of an 8 week old baby and you'll be much happier if you lower those expectations.
It's not so much my expectations but that I started to read the book and she talked about how starting at 8 weeks you begin. Though it's not really anything like severe sleep training but more just making sure the baby eats more during the day and doesn't need to feed as much at night at this age.
But that is why I asked. I have no experience so I can't gauge if the advice in this book is unrealistic or not.
I didn't want to jump all over you because there are people (on this board even) that did it. And according to them, it worked wonderfully.
It's just the opposite of my parenting philosophy.
Right, I hear ya. Â I guess it does depend on a person's personal philosophy. Â I guess like CIO, many people swear by it and others find it to be horrible and ineffective. Â
I can say with almost complete confidence that zero MMMs used CIO before 4 months.
Right, I hear ya. I guess it does depend on a person's personal philosophy. I guess like CIO, many people swear by it and others find it to be horrible and ineffective.
I can say with almost complete confidence that zero MMMs used CIO before 4 months.
I have no intention of doing CIO before 4 months. I only brought it up to show how people have different philosophies.
ITA that it's too early for sleep training. But I don't think that starting a *routine* (not strict schedule) is a problem. M is napping SOOO much better since I started following EASY. It takes a little bit of effort to get him down for a nap, but he's usually asleep within 10 minutes. He's so much more pleasant now that he's getting enough sleep. The witching hour fussiness is greatly diminished. If you are interested in this routine, check out The Baby Whisperer. (I will probably be flamed for suggesting you do anything other than feed purely "on demand" haha.)
Note that he is far from STTN, but that's somewhat of a separate issue.
ETA: Sorry if you feel attacked. It's hard for people to remember being a new parent and not knowing everything. You asked a reasonable question.
I read this this book and literally threw it across the room in my post partum hormonal sleep deprived state.
Lots of babies have later bedtimes as newborns. Ds cluster fed from 6-10 pm until he was three months old and then naturally set his bedtime to 7:30. We tried to force earlier bedtime and it never worked until he was ready.
There are things you can do to start setting up a routine at this point but you also have to go with the flow of the baby. This book seemed to set up a very strict schedule which just would not have worked at all. A loose routine is great, strict schedule, no.
ITA that it's too early for sleep training. But I don't think that starting a *routine* (not strict schedule) is a problem. M is napping SOOO much better since I started following EASY. It takes a little bit of effort to get him down for a nap, but he's usually asleep within 10 minutes. He's so much more pleasant now that he's getting enough sleep. The witching hour fussiness is greatly diminished. If you are interested in this routine, check out The Baby Whisperer. (I will probably be flamed for suggesting you do anything other than feed purely "on demand" haha.)
Note that he is far from STTN, but that's somewhat of a separate issue.
ETA: Sorry if you feel attacked. It's hard for people to remember being a new parent and not knowing everything. You asked a reasonable question.
I'm getting the feeling that this goes against the board's general parenting philosophy. I'm wondering if anyone did read this book and knows what I was referencing in the OP as I was asking about things in the book. I don't expect to start hard-core sleep training at only 8 weeks. But I saw on here someone mention it so I thought it was worth a read and the questions were worth asking. To be honest I don't think I agree 100% with feeding on demand after a certain point either, so I'll be flamed right there with ya. And don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting a strict feeding schedule, just a relaxed routine.
I have been doing EASY for a while now and she was on a 3 -4 hr cycle but has recently started wanting the bottle as early as 45 min from the start of her last feeding and went from eating 3-4 oz to 2 oz at a time. Her witching hour(s) have gotten worse, actually. She use to be just really fussy and it's become full-blown screaming to the point her voice cracks. I even tried HBOTB with no success, though it did help earlier.
I guess I'm just hoping from one method to another. But I'm still sticking to EASY and the 5s as much as I can.
I read this this book and literally threw it across the room in my post partum hormonal sleep deprived state.
Lots of babies have later bedtimes as newborns. Ds cluster fed from 6-10 pm until he was three months old and then naturally set his bedtime to 7:30. We tried to force earlier bedtime and it never worked until he was ready.
There are things you can do to start setting up a routine at this point but you also have to go with the flow of the baby. This book seemed to set up a very strict schedule which just would not have worked at all. A loose routine is great, strict schedule, no.
Ah, right now I'm just at the point in the book where she suggests a feeding routine. I haven't read about strict schedules. I don't think she's anywhere near ready for any schedules. Good to know the book goes in this direction.
I did read the book. It seemed totally awesome when I was pregnant. Then I had a baby and threw that shit out.
Ok, but I'm not withholding milk from M. I put "in demand" in quotes because when I did this, I literally stuck a boob in his mouth every time he cried. Sometimes this was 14x/day. This meant that he was snacking and rarely actually emptying a breast. Furthermore, he wasn't getting enough sleep because when he cried because he was tired, instead of helping him get to sleep I stuck a boob in his mouth. I don't know how to speak baby, but now I have a better idea of what he probably wants based on how long it's been since he last ate and slept.
I feed myself on demand, like most people do. But if it's been an hour since I had a full meal, there's no way I'm hungry again. This is just a way of helping me better interpret what my baby needs at any point in the day.
I did read the book. It seemed totally awesome when I was pregnant. Then I had a baby and threw that shit out.
Ok, but I'm not withholding milk from M. I put "in demand" in quotes because when I did this, I literally stuck a boob in his mouth every time he cried. Sometimes this was 14x/day. This meant that he was snacking and rarely actually emptying a breast. Furthermore, he wasn't getting enough sleep because when he cried because he was tired, instead of helping him get to sleep I stuck a boob in his mouth. I don't know how to speak baby, but now I have a better idea of what he probably wants based on how long it's been since he last ate and slept.
I feed myself on demand, like most people do. But if it's been an hour since I had a full meal, there's no way I'm hungry again. This is just a way of helping me better interpret what my baby needs at any point in the day.
Here's the thing: you know your baby the best. And you do, indeed, get better at it.
This book does advocate a strict schedule. Hasn't been 4 hours? Don't feed the baby.That is part of this books "thing".
There is also a parenting strategy/philosophy thing here. I pretty much threw a boob at DS for everything for the first year or more. And it worked (mostly) for us. I tried some other stuff. It didn't work for him or for me. He liked using nursing for a whole variety of needs, and ultimately that was the easiest way for me to meet those needs, food and otherwise. Then along came DD and she's a different child and I'm a different mom. I don't use nursing for 110% of my parenting strategy with her.
That's longer than it needs to be to say: do what works. If it doesn't work, change it. If it does work, don't assume it will work every time for every kid and every parent. And most of all: you are the best mom for your kid. Not an author, not GBCN, not anyone else. You know more than you think.
Post by scribellesam on Nov 27, 2014 12:18:13 GMT -5
I know you've been having a rough newborn experience from your other posts, OP, but IMO trying to force changes on your newborn's natural routine is just setting yourself for further frustration.
I'll admit to being jealous of other posters with babies the same age as DS2 who are already sleeping 5+ hour stages (including yours apparently!) while mine still wants to eat every 3 hours round the clock and has never slept more than 4. But that's newborns for you - they're all crappy in their own special way.
Post by dcrunnergirl52 on Nov 27, 2014 12:24:34 GMT -5
I haven't read this book but as someone who did have her babies on a pretty good/strict "schedule" (flexible routine) from day 1 (b/c with twins this is a necessity and with DS2, it was all that I knew and worked for us), this book sounds like it has unrealistic expectations. I don't think there are many babies who can go 4 hours between feedings.
I used a combination of EASY and Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Twins (same as the singleton edition but tailored to two+ babies) so that my kids got fed every 3 hours with naps in between after short amounts of activity, although I would definitely feed them early if they were hungry. A couple things that I did were:
1. Tried to give them as much formula as possible with each feeding. 2. Learned their sleepy signals so that I was putting them down at the first sign of tiredness, which got them on a good nap routine.For my first two kids, their eyelids would get red when they got tired. For DS2, he starts playing with his hair. 3. Started a bedtime routine/early bedtime at less than 6 weeks. Around that time, they started going to bed for the night around 7pm or so. This alone helped the witching hour SO, SO much....practically eliminated it. 4. Accepted that some days, babies will be babies and will need to be fed more or won't take a nap or will generally just not do anything according to a routine.
Good luck! Figuring out these little ones can be so hard.
ETA: I should add that while my kids had a great daytime routine and were good nappers, DD and DS1 didn't STTN until 8 months and DS2 didn't STTN until close to 12 months. So, a great routine during the day doesn't guarantee a baby will STTN.
I haven't read the book mentioned in the OP and can't speak to its pluses and minuses (though it sounds like the latter are present in abundance). I was simply mentioning that "routine" (not arbitrary strict schedule) doesn't equal starving your baby.
I don't understand on demand feeding in the long term (obviously it is necessary for newborns) because I don't know what my baby is demanding at any given time. He cries for many, many reasons besides hunger. I'm not sure he gets hungry enough to cry anymore, other than rare occasions when he makes it 7+ hours at night, because I am better anticipating his needs. (And he doesn't need to eat quite all the freaking time like a newborn.)
Nursing meets needs aside from hunger, though. Lonely? Oh look, mom's here. Cold? Not when he's nursing. Gas? A bit more nursing might work that out. Bored? Maybe nursing.
I get that it isn't for everyone. It's not even for every one of my own children. But nursing "on demand" or nursing for every single thing isn't inherently a bad thing.
(Note: stuff is different with a formula fed baby, and sometimes "nursing" in this case would probably be "pacifier and cuddles" and I'm not trying to be a judgmental bitch by saying "nursing".)
I haven't read this book but I am genuinely scratching my head about how forcing longer stretches between daytime feedings is supposed to lead to STTN. In my experience it's the exact opposite. Get the baby to eat as much as possible during the day = fewer hungry wake ups overnight.
If you are looking to get her bedtime a little more regular, 8-12 weeks is a great time to start a bedtime routine. Bath, dim lights, lotion/massage, story, quiet songs, last feeding, etc.
DD was a night owl when she was tiny and we actually worked with a sleep consultant when she was 4 months to help us get her bedtime under control. It seemed like her "natural" bedtime was around 10-11PM and that was not working for us. The consultant had us first get her used to a routine, starting with "quiet time" in her room with her for an hour beforehand with noisy toys put away and the lights turned low. We would do this at like 9:30PM with a targeted bedtime of 10:30PM. (There was some screaming and lots of fussing but our logic was that if we were trying to put her to bed there would be screaming and fussing anyway.) Once she got the hang of that, we shifted the whole thing by 15 minutes each night until we were at an 8PM bedtime (which is perfect for us, and still where we are today). Once we had a few consecutive night of success with that, we dropped the hour of dark/quiet time and just went from our normal evening routine straight to bedtime. The whole process took about two weeks.
I get it. I really do. DS1 was the worst colicky mess. some people here truly know how bad real colic is (@starry, @this, sorry i can't remember more). We understand what you're going through. On the other hand, colicky babies do.not.respond to any of these "parenting" methods. And in the end, it will make you more stressed, more resentful, more tired, more *everything* because it enhances every single feeling you have. Which is why I said "lower your expectations" because once you do and you get to the point of "do what I have to do, to get through the day and end with a happier baby" things become easier.
Also, as a side note, DS2 is now EFF. On the days that he spreads his feedings out more during the day (q4h instead of q3h) he has more wakeups at night because he still needs to eat that 30-36oz a day that he eats during the day. So if you try to spread the feedings out, of course she is going to wake up more at night.
I think that given that so many adults have different schedules in terms of sleeping/eating/shitting...one would presume babies would too.
We didn't bother with any kind of schedule for DD until 5 months I think? And only really for naps but even that is fluid because she wakes up at a completely different time every day...some days it is 6am, some days it is 7am...she is still on 3 naps a day, even though all the charts say she should be on 2. Meh, she needs 3 she gets 3. The only thing we are consistent on is that she goes to bed at 6pm (6:15-6:30 if we happen to be out and late)...but even putting her to bed at 6 every night doesn't mean we get consistency in when she wakes MOTN, it could be anywhere from 1:45-3am. She usually wakes only once. Last night it was twice.
I have given up looking for structure. We go with the flow with her AND we go on with our lives as well. Other than trying to be home for 6 pm we go about our day. She naps in her car seat/car...it's fine. Apparently she slept in the stroller whole DH ran 5k the other day. It isn't even a running stroller. Lol.
Part of our goal in NOT have strict structures is that we don't want her bound to them. I don't want her to HAVE to sleep in a crib to nap. I like that she will fall asleep while I walk around target. And I don't mind if she eats every 2 hours or every 4 - she rarely ever makes it to 4 hours when it isn't MOTN though.
The witching hour was pretty awful for our first 3 months. We'd start bedtime around 9 and have her down by 10 or 10:30pm. One day she just fell asleep at 7:30 on her own. I was so shocked! It will happen, hang in there!