An aside: it annoys me that they keep painting Baltimore in a negative light. Their school wasn't in the city. They didn't live in the city. It isn't Baltimore's fault!
I was hoping for more of a bang after a week off. Sounds like Guttierrez was not on her game in this trial. The clip of her and Jay was brutal. Any competent tv lawyer would have printed out the transcripts of his four conflicting interviews and had him read out loud and explain all the discrepancies, right?
And what's with Jay's lawyer being provided by the prosecutor??
For the record, I'm in CA this week. Woke up at 5 because of the time change. Then I was like..whelp, there's a new Serial so I guess I'll get up and go work out!
An aside: it annoys me that they keep painting Baltimore in a negative light. Their school wasn't in the city. They didn't live in the city. It isn't Baltimore's fault!
I actually haven't listened to the podcast because of this. Although the HS is like 5 minutes from the city line so it's pretty close. And I'm the daughter of a Woodlawn alum. But it's also why I haven't ever watched the Wire.
ETA I did ask my mom if she remembered this happening and she was like "a body in Leakin Park? You don't say." So I guess the answer is no she doesn't remember ha.
Ha! We haven't watched the Wire either. I am a bit Baltimore-defensive. I do admit there have been a lot of bodies found in Leakin Park.
I remember when the murder happened though, they were two years behind me in school and our schools played each other in various sports.
Ha tacokick I wonder if you are from my area. I'm definitely Baltimore defensive, but on both sides. I get annoyed at people who move to Federal Hill and are ignorant of Baltimore's history or issues and act like it's all roses in the city and I get annoyed at people who watched the Wire and are experts on it.
We must be from the same area.
I'm still annoyed at a friend who moved to "south Federal Hill" and it was obviously Pigtown.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
I've only listened to half, but I don't buy the anti-Muslim angle at all. Maybe I'll give them the stretch from the bail hearing, that was a little out of line on the prosecutor's part, but I'm not sure it's what swayed the judge at all.
I was intrigued by the fact that they thought if Gutierrez hadn't gotten her mistrial the first time around that he would have had a better chance of being acquitted.
I can tell you that the Baltimore city jury selection process sounded exactly like what was presented at the beginning of this episode. When I served 2 of the people on my jury had been the victims of gun crime (first degree murder trial).
I am definitely defensive of Baltimore but I don't think the portrayal is too bad. So far no one from out of the area has asked me if Baltimore "is as bad as in serial." I can not say the same for the Wire.
The whole prosecutor getting him a lawyer thing sounds unbelievably fucked up. Even if Jay didn't see the benefit (is he really that dumb?), it still helped them protect their witness from losing more credibility.
I can tell you that the Baltimore city jury selection process sounded exactly like what was presented at the beginning of this episode. When I served 2 of the people on my jury had been the victims of gun crime (first degree murder trial).
I am definitely defensive of Baltimore but I don't think it's too bad. So far no one from out of the area has asked me if Baltimore "is as bad as ion serial." I can not say the same for the Wire.
The whole prosecutor getting him a lawyer thing sounds unbelievably fucked up. Even if Jay didn't see the benefit (is he really that dumb?), it still helped them protect their witness from losing more credibility.
I don't think it is awful, I question why she included it at all. It didn't add much to the story beyond painting Baltimore as a violent, crime-ridden place.
I was a bit uncomfortable with some of the discrimination angles, maybe due to recent discussions here. But, I can't really put my finger on it. May need to listen again later.
I also think that Gutierrez was not a good lawyer because she was sick at the end. Maybe she needed the money for medical bills or wanted to leave money behind for her family. I don't think Adnan is getting out on an appeal or getting out anytime soon.
I am so back on forth on his guilt or innocence.
I think that probably both Jay and him were involved somehow. Maybe through drugs?
I'm almost wondering if Gutierrez was involved with drugs herself. Cash payments, erratic behavior, forgetting pretty important information...substance abuse is definitely a big problem in the legal community as well, IME.
I'm almost wondering if Gutierrez was involved with drugs herself. Cash payments, erratic behavior, forgetting pretty important information...substance abuse is definitely a big problem in the legal community as well, IME.
Before listening to this week's episode I would have said this was crazy, but now I'm not so sure. The cash thing raised an eyebrow. The fact that the state had to pay out a bunch of funds in claims for her actions makes me wonder if that was anticipated. Maybe in declining health and with whatever else she had going on she knew that they would likely be paid eventually.
I'm almost wondering if Gutierrez was involved with drugs herself. Cash payments, erratic behavior, forgetting pretty important information...substance abuse is definitely a big problem in the legal community as well, IME.
This is kind of what I was leaning towards. Her flakiness, how adamant she was about the cash, erratic behavior, all that. Perhaps because she knew she was at the end anyways? Or she'd been prescribed something for her medical problems and it got out of control?
This episode was not as engaging as the past ones, which was disappointing after the break last week.
Sounds like Gutierrez was on some sort of downward spiral for sure, and it sucks that she couldn't admit it to herself to realize it was maybe negatively impacting her cases.
I hate hearing the clips of her. Had I been on that jury, I think I would have just wanted it to end as quickly as possible so I wouldn't have to hear her speak.
Ha tacokick I wonder if you are from my area. I'm definitely Baltimore defensive, but on both sides. I get annoyed at people who move to Federal Hill and are ignorant of Baltimore's history or issues and act like it's all roses in the city and I get annoyed at people who watched the Wire and are experts on it.
We must be from the same area.
I'm still annoyed at a friend who moved to "south Federal Hill" and it was obviously Pigtown.
Isn't pig town west of Fed Hill? (obv not the point)
I hate hearing the clips of her. Had I been on that jury, I think I would have just wanted it to end as quickly as possible so I wouldn't have to hear her speak.
I was thinking the same thing when I listened to today's episode. I'm super sensitive when it comes to yelling/raised voices; I think I would've cried.
Trying for #3; FET 8/18 -- BFN. Leaving things up to chance for now... After three years, three IVFs, and two FETs, we finally have our miracle babIES!
Post by teengirlsquad on Dec 5, 2014 0:06:57 GMT -5
I don't know what to make of this episode. I feel like it jumped around a lot and didnt really give us much - except the thing about jays lawyer. And I do think Adnan's lawyer was trying but maybe was sicker than she realized or things had just gotten to be more than she could handle. Or something like that. It does seem like she had a strategy and she was legitimately mad when she found out about jays lawyer and was justified with her response, in my opinion.
I'm almost wondering if Gutierrez was involved with drugs herself. Cash payments, erratic behavior, forgetting pretty important information...substance abuse is definitely a big problem in the legal community as well, IME.
This is exactly where my head went during the episode but I thought maybe I'm too quick to accuse people of being on drugs. But she's a stressed out defense attorney and I've known my fair share of those in my life and substance abuse and addiction are disproportionately common.
I really feel that there was underlying racism in the bail hearings specifically. So much discussion of "honor" and "besmirched" and constantly bringing up his race/background to explain his alleged actions, and the fact that they constantly referred to Adnan as Pakistani (false since he's American) showed a clear bias from many of the character witnesses. This alone causes me to feel that the bail hearings were colored with racism.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
This episode was not as engaging as the past ones, which was disappointing after the break last week.
Sounds like Gutierrez was on some sort of downward spiral for sure, and it sucks that she couldn't admit it to herself to realize it was maybe negatively impacting her cases. I hate hearing the clips of her. Had I been on that jury, I think I would have just wanted it to end as quickly as possible so I wouldn't have to hear her speak.
I said this on my home board. See also: Cathy's voice. If I never hear "what am I supposed to say? What am I supposed to do?" it will be too soon.
I know Cathy's voice is altered but it is so grating.
This episode was not as engaging as the past ones, which was disappointing after the break last week.
Sounds like Gutierrez was on some sort of downward spiral for sure, and it sucks that she couldn't admit it to herself to realize it was maybe negatively impacting her cases. I hate hearing the clips of her. Had I been on that jury, I think I would have just wanted it to end as quickly as possible so I wouldn't have to hear her speak.
I said this on my home board. See also: Cathy's voice. If I never hear "what am I supposed to say? What am I supposed to do?" it will be too soon.
I know Cathy's voice is altered but it is so grating.
Ugh YES!! It's like they "vocal fried" her so we would dislike her, lol
This was posted on Reddit. It's a video about The Witmans, the other case that was brought up in the latest episode. It's really interesting. vimeo.com/66520133
Christina Gutierrez had MS. She died in 2004 of a heart attack. I wonder if having MS contributed to her erratic behavior.
This is my feeling as well. I think that she probably should have retired but would not admit to herself that her health issues were as bad as they were. I have people in my life that are like that.