I'm not sure that full-time students are eligible for food stamps. But the subject of this story is even worse, talking about people who have completed their graduate degrees and can't find full-time employment.
The lack of good jobs is the reason DH dropped out of his PhD program many years ago, its obviously even worse now. It took him two years to come to that decision. He left the program to teach HS (and now makes more than his former profs make).
Academia seems like a brutal direction to head, career wise. I know a few aspiring PhDs (in social science fields), two of whom are married to each other and expecting #2, and I just don't know how they make it work. They both work as adjuncts at a couple places simultaneously. I'm not sure where their health insurance comes from.
It seems NPR is no better at picking sympathetic characters to interview than most other news outlets, though. A PhD in history says that graduating in the recession "is one of the bravest things to do"? I'm not sure I'd classify finishing a terminal degree during a recession is a "brave" thing to do, it sounds more like a natural consequence of having started it a couple years earlier and not having any more degrees in the sequence to delay entry into the working world. But pats on the back for "bravery" all the same, buddy.
Post by starvingscientist on May 16, 2012 9:25:28 GMT -5
I am about to be unemployed and the majority of my rejections state that they consider me over qualified for the position bc I have a PhD. Obviously, if my resume could reach an actual human they would see that though I have a PhD, that doesnt mean Im necessarily overqualified, but the HR computer robots reject it everytime. Im contemplating leaving that part out until I get a human to talk to me and then telling them.
I am about to be unemployed and the majority of my rejections state that they consider me over qualified for the position bc I have a PhD. Obviously, if my resume could reach an actual human they would see that though I have a PhD, that doesnt mean Im necessarily overqualified, but the HR computer robots reject it everytime. Im contemplating leaving that part out until I get a human to talk to me and then telling them.
I would totally do this in order to talk to a person.
It seems NPR is no better at picking sympathetic characters to interview than most other news outlets, though. A PhD in history says that graduating in the recession "is one of the bravest things to do"? I'm not sure I'd classify finishing a terminal degree during a recession is a "brave" thing to do, it sounds more like a natural consequence of having started it a couple years earlier and not having any more degrees in the sequence to delay entry into the working world. But pats on the back for "bravery" all the same, buddy.
Yeah, that quote was weird.
While I'm all for the liberal arts and education for the sake of education, a Ph.D. in the humanities seems really risky.
Post by starvingscientist on May 16, 2012 9:28:18 GMT -5
I dont think so, I was a lurker on Money Matters and since the switch have started posting. This board isnt blocked by work and looks benign to anyone passing by!
Post by NachoProblem on May 16, 2012 9:29:56 GMT -5
Another PhD student here planning to make a transition to a non-academic career. Starving scientist - what type of jobs are you looking for? I've been talking to recruiters and depending on what the job is, a PhD can be a drawback.
I dont think so, I was a lurker on Money Matters and since the switch have started posting. This board isnt blocked by work and looks benign to anyone passing by!
Ok, I knew there were a few other PhD scientists around. Welcome!
Sorry you've had a rough time finding a job. Are you in a postdoc now?
Post by starvingscientist on May 16, 2012 9:34:17 GMT -5
Yes, but the funding for my position is ending in June. I absolutely do not want to do another post-doc and will basically do anything except that. Im supposedly in the running still for a science communications position, but when they will decide is anyone's guess. I have applied for everything from patent examiner jobs to marketing positions for pharmaceutical and bio-tech companies, regulatory positions, adjunct teaching faculty etc. There is the unfortunate assumption that because I have a PhD I require a high salary. If only they knew how little I was working for as a post-doc and would be willing to make at ANY job. I just have to pay my bills so Ill take anything- its better than nothing!
The national average earnings of adjunct instructors are just under $2,500 per course, according to the American Association of University Professors.
I was terrified that I would have to go the adjunct route after finishing my Ph.D. It really, really sucks.
Good grief. I knew it was bad for adjuncts but that is ridiculous. How many courses can a person teach at once? Four? Maybe five? That still comes out well below the poverty line. And these are the people who are supposed to be inspiring the next generation.
I was terrified that I would have to go the adjunct route after finishing my Ph.D. It really, really sucks.
Good grief. I knew it was bad for adjuncts but that is ridiculous. How many courses can a person teach at once? Four? Maybe five? That still comes out well below the poverty line. And these are the people who are supposed to be inspiring the next generation.
I was offered a temporary Visiting Professor position while someone is on sabbatical. I would be responsible for teaching 3-4 labs and one course. The pay would be $7800 and no benefits or health insurance. Uh... yeah, Id make more on unemployment!
Well, let's say they can do four at a time 3x year (including summers). That's 30K, no? I know that's before taxes, but is that in the poverty range? Not easy and seriously annoying at entry-level pay with that sort of degree, but I don't think that's at the poverty line.
It is, of course, lower than entry-level teaching at HS, at least in my area.
The national average earnings of adjunct instructors are just under $2,500 per course, according to the American Association of University Professors.
I was terrified that I would have to go the adjunct route after finishing my Ph.D. It really, really sucks.
I actually was offered an adjunct position when we moved for DH's job at a new university. I declined it, taking an office job instead (that I hate), because the adjunct job wouldn't even pay for daycare.
Post by starvingscientist on May 16, 2012 9:41:42 GMT -5
As an adjunct you aren't necessarily guaranteed anything- course load, how many semesters. They only pull you if they have a need and usually these positions don't involve a full load, and if they do, they dont last very long. The lack of benefits makes it, in my opinion, below the poverty line.
Well, let's say they can do four at a time 3x year (including summers). That's 30K, no? I know that's before taxes, but is that in the poverty range? Not easy and seriously annoying at entry-level pay with that sort of degree, but I don't think that's at the poverty line.
It is, of course, lower than entry-level teaching at HS, at least in my area.
The problem is that they don't always have four to give you every single semester (for example, summers can be slow) and adjuncts get whatever classes the tenured folks don't want to teach. Unfortunately that means that, depending on the university/department, they may change your schedule pretty frequently. Prepping a new course takes a decent amount of time.
Yes, but the funding for my position is ending in June. I absolutely do not want to do another post-doc and will basically do anything except that. Im supposedly in the running still for a science communications position, but when they will decide is anyone's guess. I have applied for everything from patent examiner jobs to marketing positions for pharmaceutical and bio-tech companies, regulatory positions, adjunct teaching faculty etc. There is the unfortunate assumption that because I have a PhD I require a high salary. If only they knew how little I was working for as a post-doc and would be willing to make at ANY job. I just have to pay my bills so Ill take anything- its better than nothing!
I totally get you. I am in the extremely fortunate position of getting a TT position straight out of grad school, because DAMN I am burned out on bench work and DID NOT want to do a postdoc at all!
I also had a job offer as a lecturer at a state university, which only required a M.S. During my interview, the department chair was very concerned that because I would be overqualified, the job would just be a stepping stone for me. I apparently succeeded at assuring him that I had no interest in pursuing a career in research and really just wanted to teach. Even for that full-time position, the salary was pretty pathetic, but I would have taken it had I not had another offer.
I realize that I am an outlier and am very fortunate, because I have many friends who have applied for a shitton of jobs with no bites. I am going to PM you in a minute. starvingscientist
Well, let's say they can do four at a time 3x year (including summers). That's 30K, no? I know that's before taxes, but is that in the poverty range? Not easy and seriously annoying at entry-level pay with that sort of degree, but I don't think that's at the poverty line.
It is, of course, lower than entry-level teaching at HS, at least in my area.
Teaching four classes per semester is a heavy load but doable. (Most teaching positions I looked into have a load of three classes/semester.) But I don't think you can teach four classes during the summer, given that classes are accelerated and therefore take 2.5x as much work per week as classes during the semester. Plus, I don't know anywhere that adjuncts would be offered 12 classes/year. Adjuncts are at the bottom of the teaching barrel and are offered classes that full-time faculty can't cover.
The national average earnings of adjunct instructors are just under $2,500 per course, according to the American Association of University Professors.
I was terrified that I would have to go the adjunct route after finishing my Ph.D. It really, really sucks.
SO had been considering going into academia after he finishes his PhD. After seeing how many applications his department had for ONE faculty position, he's changed his mind.
Post by phunluvin82 on May 16, 2012 10:09:31 GMT -5
My college doesn't pay nearly that average stat (but I'm at a CC, so that makes sense) and the max for our adjuncts is 4 courses and 3 in the summer. No benefits.
Several of our adjucts are FT high school teachers with graduate degrees who teach one night class a semester just for the extra cash. I also personally know 2 who are PhD's and work in the service industry when not teaching courses to pay the bills.
Post by clickerish on May 16, 2012 10:13:41 GMT -5
I think if you want to go into academia you should actually DO YOUR RESEARCH. Being smart is almost always a given by that stage. That is not the indicator. It's the really hard work when your friends are going on vacation and the rest is pure luck.
On the other hand, I don't just blame the PhD student. I blame the grad programs that try to make you feel like a TT job at a major Research One is the only job out there (and their mean jokes about former students who failed to achieve "greatness" or went into other careers). Also, I blame them for hyping their program as so much better than it actually is. If you graduate from Missoula State University with a PhD in English and tons of debt, you will not end up at an Ivy immediately upon graduation. If you do end up at there in the end, it will be after slaving away in the trenches writing when other people are, again, vacationing, eating Ramen noodles until your heart gives out, networking instead of sleeping and getting incredibly lucky.
Also, how about some solidarity with the adjuncts!
If you graduate from Missoula State University with a PhD in English and tons of debt, you will not end up at an Ivy immediately upon graduation. If you do end up at there in the end, it will be after slaving away in the trenches writing when other people are, again, vacationing, eating Ramen noodles until your heart gives out, networking instead of sleeping and getting incredibly lucky.
Most aspiring academics would be thrilled with positions at Joe Schmoe Northeastern State University. We're not exactly banging down Harvard's door.
I was terrified that I would have to go the adjunct route after finishing my Ph.D. It really, really sucks.
Good grief. I knew it was bad for adjuncts but that is ridiculous. How many courses can a person teach at once? Four? Maybe five? That still comes out well below the poverty line. And these are the people who are supposed to be inspiring the next generation.
No kidding. Now I understand why so many adjuncts I had were horrible teachers...
Most aspiring academics would be thrilled with positions at Joe Schmoe Northeastern State University. We're not exactly banging down Harvard's door.
I should have clarified or added an addendum. It's not only the idea that if you graduate from Missoula you won't hit the Ivy. The Ivy's are graduating the students who are teaching at Joe Schmoe. So if you graduate from Joe Schmoe, you are screwed. It's a lousy system.
Just chiming in on Joe Schmoe U here---I never wanted to go R1. It's just not in me. I love to teach too much. So, when I told one of my committee members about the job I'd chosen (a teaching university with good research support) I was shocked when she sneered at me and said, "But you're going to have to work with...like...first generation college students there." I was so mad. I said, "Oh, you mean people like me? How awful" turned around, and left.
So, I definitely agree that some programs (or advisors) push their students for R1, R1, R1 and see anything else as a failure, regardless the students' preferences or the reality of the job market.
Don't most adjuncts work elsewhere full time (if they can find work, at least- I understand the job market is rough)?
I know a few people who are adjuncts at the local university (a big 10 school) and they do it as a side job. I can see it being something you have to do to "pay your dues" to break into academia, but I find it unlikely that most people consider that their main job. Am I way off there?
I also think it is pitiful how little adjuncts get paid. I think an adjunct at my local university is paid about $3500 a semester. Tuition for that class for each student is upwards of $900 so if the class has 30 students (which is probably on the low end) they are receiving over $23k in tuition on top of the cost of the teacher. That's crazy to me! I know there are facilities and insurance and blah blah blah but you'd think the teacher of the class is THE most important component and should be compensated as such.
So, I definitely agree that some programs (or advisors) push their students for R1, R1, R1 and see anything else as a failure, regardless the students' preferences or the reality of the job market.
That's because they're assholes and egomaniacs. LOL