Post by gibbinator on Mar 16, 2015 14:59:20 GMT -5
Ok I read about halfway through and was like ok, I see where you're going, not really a career in the strict sense whatever.
Then she got to the part where you have to be grateful for the morning sickness, and pain, and exhausting, and every other crappy part of pregnancy and.... I stopped reading.
Parents are allowed to complain even if they choose to sah. Pretty sure people with "jobs" complain about work too.
People want to be valued. Money equals value and since there's no money directly attached to SAH, some try and say it's a "job" to attach value. The whole thing is exhausting.
As SJ said, it doesn't have to be a job to be a completely valid path for anyone to SAH.
There's a ton of icky assumptions on all sides of this issue so it's going to continue to pop up but, again, exhausting. It's such a situation specific choice for each family.
I read this earlier this month when it was published on XO Jane. Obviously Time helped her edit things up a bit, because it used to be even worse:
"Sure, parenting is hard work, but so is going camping or throwing a party for a friend or having sex with someone I love; I don’t go around calling those things my “jobs.” "
I just remember reading that and thinking - wait...now the difficult parts of motherhood are being compared to having sex? Granted, my baby isn't here yet, so maybe I'm completely off-base in thinking that parenting my daughter is going to be a different type of hard work than having sex with someone I love.
Not going to lie. Post partum sex was kind of job in the beginning.
Americans are defined by their jobs, so if someone is doing something this hard and important, of course they wouldn't like feeling like they aren't complete or contributing by society's definition.
I actually have never referred to staying home as my job. I was a teacher for 15 years before I left and am still technically employed by the district. My identity is really wrapped up in being a teacher, so I will admit that when asked what I do I respond with teacher, and then say I am on leave. I know this is slightly ridiculous.
(This is badly worded, I have a migraine and can't figure out how to fix it).
I read this earlier this month when it was published on XO Jane. Obviously Time helped her edit things up a bit, because it used to be even worse:
"Sure, parenting is hard work, but so is going camping or throwing a party for a friend or having sex with someone I love; I don’t go around calling those things my “jobs.” "
I just remember reading that and thinking - wait...now the difficult parts of motherhood are being compared to having sex? Granted, my baby isn't here yet, so maybe I'm completely off-base in thinking that parenting my daughter is going to be a different type of hard work than having sex with someone I love.
Not going to lie. Post partum sex was kind of job in the beginning.
I can understand that - but I'm not totally sure that's what she is referring to since she lumps it into camping and throwing a party for a friend. Unless she means all of those things in the beginning of post partum.
Another day. Another internet article. I'm sad I'm late to this party.
And just because something is a "lifestyle" choice doesn't make it not a job. People say the same about agriculture careers constantly and it's still a job.
Really, you can approach *anything* in an intense, "business oriented" way. Or slack on virtually everything. I don't think it's the approach to parenting that makes it a job or a "hobby" (which also seems like a really weird thing to call it).
Parenting is something that most adults do. I don't see why we need to be so self-congratulatory about it. But this article is pretty transparently click bait so I am not sure why I am even debating it in my head LOL.
Including sex like she lists in the original version of the article? lol.
I think @littlemoxie is hitting the nail on the head. I also think it is tough, emotionally and psychologically, for some women or men who did have a career to decide to leave the work force for a few years to become a SAHP. Certainly many people in our culture define themselves by their career and even just by feeling "career oriented" and so I think it can feel like a big piece of your life is missing when that is gone, even if by choice. People equate not having a job with being aimless and worthless, so they want to call child rearing their job.
The issue is not in whether it is a job or not; I think it demonstrably isn't since it is not paid work (but it is not a hobby either... I guess a lifestyle choice is the best term?) but more that people feel like having a job gives them value as a person. I think you can live a really happy and fulfilling life without your career being the center of your world or the main impetus for your feelings of happiness. I split my time primarily between freelancing in my own business for clients and pay, which is my job, and parenting mindfully and thoughtfully, which is not a job but is important work. The rest of my time I split pursuing several hobbies that are very important to me, and spending time with loved ones. This is my general formula for a happy life and lots of feelings of self-worth. I have not had a traditional career in years and years and I am forever grateful that my husband's job allows me to freelance, raise the kids, and do funky arm balances in yoga. I am fortunate and I know it. But if I had the mentality that a career is what makes me important, I would be feeling pretty shitty watching my husband rapidly climbing the ladder in his career with tons of new opportunities and growth--I would feel like I was not a contributing member of our household. I would definitely want to make an argument that raising kids is a job too.
I think this wouldn't be so much of an issue if we lived in a culture that emphasized career less and was more accepting of general happiness being a good goal in life instead of the big house and fancy car etc., and of the fact that there are lots of paths you can take that can get you there.
Post by scribellesam on Mar 16, 2015 15:55:32 GMT -5
I roll my eyes a bit when people refer to SAHMing as "the hardest job in the world." Really? It's harder than being a brain surgeon? Harder than being a coal miner? Nope. I bitch a little after a tough day as much as anyone does, but if you enjoy being around your kids all the time, this is a pretty sweet gig IMO.
Signed, SAHM who is eating popcorn and watching Food Network while both kids nap.
I'm so tried about people writing about this topic. And I'm side-eyeing some of her choices too.
Bottom-line: everyone is life wants to feel what they do in life as value. Being a SAHP makes that harder to quantify. I think that's were the 'job' description comes from. I take being a SAHP seriously: I come up with educational activities, art crafts, read about discipline, etc. But it's not my job,
It's my role as mom. Which is a role what all those with children enjoy.
This is where I'm at too. When it's not a job, then I'm what? Unemployed? It's like you have to be with a "real" job or you're pulling everyone else down.
Trust I'm not putting Swizz Household CEO on my resume, lolol.
I hate when I am referred to as unemployed, no I am not bringing a paycheck into my house but if I was working we would be losing a large portion of that to daycare. I am not an overjoyed SAHM I would like to get back into the work force sometime soon. This is not a career and it is not a job but it takes work. I feel as if I am the CEO but would never attempt to include that when applying for a job. I do seriously think that all of my micro-managing and multi-tasking with 4 kids should demonstrate my awesomeness
Post by littlemisschatty on Mar 16, 2015 17:42:13 GMT -5
overall, this was dumb.
this part made me LOL!!! ", choosing to create your own little person upon whom you’ll spend all your time and energy is a hobby. It is a time-consuming, sanity-deteriorating, life-altering hobby — a lot like a heroin addiction, but with more Thirty-One bags."
I agree it's not a career, but I agree with what page was throwing down that it sucks that we have to define and assign worth based on how much money we can bring in. As if that is the only thing that gives people any value.
Instead of worrying about making sure SAHMs don't feel like they give back anything to society, we could accept that women get a raw deal usually either way, and are damned if we do, damned if we don't. And it takes a village, and all that. And be a village for each other!
(And maybe a SAHM could do me a solid and pick up my dry cleaning during the day, because it sucks to do at traffic time? Be your bff? )
This SAHM recommends dry cleaning delivery. DH figured out a couple of the dry cleaners in town do delivery and pick up for free. It has been life changing (for him). I hate loading and unloading kids and trying to maneuver with them plus all the heavy and awkward dry cleaning bags.
I feel like it's kind of rich of her to be talking about seeing as it sounds like she never held down a 9-5 before becoming a SAHM. And that she was a SAHM to one child for 5yrs. That being said it's not really a job to me because of 1 factor...no boss. Having a boss is about the worst part of having a job...lol. I feel like I have a career & am a SAHM. But I'll say I have a "hobby job" as a landlord. I feel like I have no boss & I still bring in money a month. My fixing up our houses (while being a SAHM) resulted in money when we sold them or rented them out. So both worlds!
This would all be irrelevant if society in general placed more value on childcare, education, and care taking in general. I can relate to feeling less than because the work I do is not paid. I spent a lot of money on a fancy college degree and always intended to work, but then I married and had children with someone whose career makes it damn near impossible for me to do that. So I SAH. And I'm still struggling to come to terms with that and I do still get defensive sometimes when people make light of it or dismiss it it any way.
Childcare and care taking in general suffer from being undervalued in our society, hence why DC workers get minimum wage, teacher salaries are paltry, and people like home health aides for the elderly and infirm are underpaid as well. It's not seen as important work. Instead of bitching all over the Internet about how SAH is so hard/ not a job/ whatever, let's work on changing the way we value certain work so no one feels the need to equate SAH to paid work in order to feel ok about themselves.
This would all be irrelevant if society in general placed more value on childcare, education, and care taking in general. I can relate to feeling less than because the work I do is not paid. I spent a lot of money on a fancy college degree and always intended to work, but then I married and had children with someone whose career makes it damn near impossible for me to do that. So I SAH. And I'm still struggling to come to terms with that and I do still get defensive sometimes when people make light of it or dismiss it it any way.
Childcare and care taking in general suffer from being undervalued in our society, hence why DC workers get minimum wage, teacher salaries are paltry, and people like home health aides for the elderly and infirm are underpaid as well. It's not seen as important work. Instead of bitching all over the Internet about how SAH is so hard/ not a job/ whatever, let's work on changing the way we value certain work so no one feels the need to equate SAH to paid work in order to feel ok about themselves.
Yes! I can never quite articulate what I need to say about this subject. Your first paragraph is 100% me/how I feel.
I think the analogy to camping or throwing a party is bullshit. I think parenting can be approached in a methodical, goal- and growth-oriented way, much like a career. Obviously it isn't the same thing as a traditional career, but it's also not necessarily just keeping the kids alive all day either. I know I put a lot of thought into parenting and always trying to improve myself as a parent, doing research and reading books and problem-solving. It's an active and long-term endeavor, not like planning a one-time event.
FWIW I am kinda a SAHM but I also have my own business and work at home so I sort of straddle that fence.
I don't disagree with you exactly, but like token said, lots of parents who work full time also approach parenting like this. They have fewer daytime hours with the kids, but still spend time and energy on enriching their kids lives and bringing them up to be responsible adults.
Sometimes. When I don't feel like I'd rather sit on the couch and GBCN.
Sometimes. When I don't feel like I'd rather sit on the couch and GBCN.
What's that line about days that end in Y?
Tonight H said he heard on BBC radio that you shouldn't just plop the kids in front of the TV when you get home (no shit, H, but he's on duty while I get dinner ready). Yeah, that idea lasted like a whole 20 minutes. Would have been more if she had eaten more than 2 chicken nuggets before she said "all done!".
Post by imojoebunny on Mar 16, 2015 19:12:52 GMT -5
This silly person and I have nothing in common. Her version of SAHM, and the others she met, are not even remotely the same as my experience. I don't have to work, I don't work. It doesn't make me any less valuable than some girl who writes disparaging articles to get attention, or someone who sells equipment, puts in fences, or manages people who make, sell, or buy stuff.
Umm this whole thing was dumb, and I'm confused why this chick had to write an article to make her "point" because I think she is confused.
I don't feel like people who say SAH is a "job" are necessarily comparing it to a 9-5... They are merely saying its work and takes time and dedication.... Which, it does.