Why diets don't work, and will never work

[ttt]

The bolded part really stuck out to me.

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/05/04/why-diets-dont-actually-work-according-to-a-researcher-who-has-studied-them-for-decades/?tid=hybrid_linearcol_1_na


For centuries, men and women have worked tirelessly to fit the physical molds of their time. Diets, which have ranged from the straightforward to the colorful and kind of silly, have produced a wide range of results -- and all sorts of followings.

Not long ago, the Atkins diet villainized carbohydrates and convinced millions to avoid starches of any kind. Today, the Paleo diet, which purports to emulate the eating habits and digestive systems of ancient humans who lived for many fewer years than people on average do today, is perhaps the most popular — or at least talked about — dietary fad. Soon there will be another fad that sweeps the dieting conversation. And another one.

The question that seems to hover over all this diet talk is whether any of the myriad weight loss schemes have worked. If one had, shouldn't it have survived the test of time? And if we've gone this long without a diet that has been shown to work — according to science, not simply the sellers of the fad — will one ever emerge that actually does?

The short answer is no, according to Traci Mann, who teaches psychology at the University of Minnesota and has been studying eating habits, self-control and dieting for more than 20 years. Over the course of her research, largely conducted at the University of Minnesota's Health and Eating Lab, Mann has repeatedly asked these sorts of questions, and always found the same disappointing answers.

Her findings, chronicled in her newly published book "Secrets from the Eating Lab," offer a fascinating explanation for why dieting over the long term is actually impossible.

I spoke with Mann to learn what exactly it is that people misunderstand about weight, willpower and our relationship with food. The interview has been edited for length and clarity.

You have worked at the eating lab for some time. What is the eating lab? What does one do at an eating lab? The concept of an eating lab is really cool, but I have to admit that I don't quite know what it is.

I don't want to make it sound any less cool, but it is a lab. And it is where we do eating studies. I study eating at the lab in two basic ways: I either go out into the world, and study people and the way they eat — the way normal people do their eating — or I bring people into the lab and put them in situations that are carefully controlled so that I can see how their eating responds to those carefully controlled situations. These two types of experiments are really opposite sides to the same coin, but you really need both. You need to see what people do in real life, and then you need some way to find out what causes what. And that's what the lab is for.


But you don't just have a lab, you also have a new book, and it talks a lot about how people eat. Is it fair to call it a culmination of your work at the eating lab?

Absolutely. You know, people are already asking me if I'm going to write another, and I'm like, "Yeah, after I do another 20 years of research."

So then what is the culmination of your work at the eating lab? In the book, you talk a lot about dieting, and how it doesn't actually work. What have you found?

If you want an overview kind of culmination, well, let's see: People are too uptight about their weight; people are handling that uptightness in a foolish way that doesn't work (that would be dieting); and the reason diets don't work is not what people think.

It all starts with something that suddenly struck me a while back, and that's that nobody has willpower. Everyone is blaming dieters for regaining weight they lose, and that's just wrong — it's not their fault they regain weight, and it's not about willpower, or any lack thereof.

All this time, doing studies in the lab, almost every single study, without really meaning to, showed some other thing that made dieters overeat. I have found time and again that it's actually some other thing that causes dieters to lose control of what they're eating.

But the truth is that everything causes dieters to lose control of what they're eating, because dieting is bound to fail, it is destined to fail.

Well, that's pretty provocative. So dieting doesn't work, and it's not for the reasons people think. What are these reasons we are looking past?

What people tend to think is that if only Joe had self-control then he could succeed on his diet forever. And that's not accurate, as it turns out. That's not true.

After you diet, so many biological changes happen in your body that it becomes practically impossible to keep the weight off. It's not about someone's self-control or strength of will.

What kind of biological changes?

There are three biological changes that take place that seem most important to me.


The first is neurological. When you are dieting, you actually become more likely to notice food. Basically your brain becomes overly responsive to food, and especially to tasty looking food. But you don't just notice it — it actually begins to look more appetizing and tempting. It has increased reward value. So the thing you're trying to resist becomes harder to resist. So already, if you think about it, it's not fair.

Then there are hormonal changes, and it's the same kind of thing. As you lose body fat, the amount of different hormones in your body changes. And the hormones that help you feel full, or the level of those rather, decreases. The hormones that make you feel hungry, meanwhile, increases. So you become more likely to feel hungry, and less likely to feel full given the same amount of food. Again, completely unfair.

And the third biological change, which I think people do sort of know about, is that there are metabolic changes. Your metabolism slows down. Your body uses calories in the most efficient way possible. Which sounds like a good thing, and would be good thing if you're starving to death. But it isn't a good thing if you're trying to lose weight, because when your body finds a way to run itself on fewer calories there tends to be more leftover, and those get stored as fat, which is exactly what you don't want to happen.

So calling it unfair doesn't even begin to describe the injustice.

How could it when you have to fight against all of that? You can do it, potentially, but it's going to take over your life. And that's no way to live.

Dieting is actually a lot like starving, physically. It's living like you're starving. A lot of people do it, but what they're actually doing is living as if they're starving. They're putting their body into that exact same state that it would be in if they were literally starving to death.

But there's an entire industry that profits from convincing people that just the opposite is true. How do you reconcile that?

Well, the first thing is that you can't believe anything that they say. And that's by definition, because their job isn't to tell you the truth — it's to make money. And they're allowed to lie.


These companies make their money off failure, not success. They need you to fail, so you'll pay them again. One-time customers are not the sort of thing that keep these diet companies in business.

What would you say to someone who says 'I followed or have been following so and so diet, and I've lost weight, I feel better, it's working'? What are they not understanding?

I would tell them that they're in the honeymoon stage. That early stage is great, but it really is a honeymoon stage, and it's going to get a lot harder soon.

For practically any diet — crazy, or not crazy sounding — in that first 6 to 12 months, people can lose about 10 percent of their starting weight. So a 200 pound person will lose about 20 pounds in the short run. But the short run isn't the whole story. Everyone acts like the short run is the whole story, and that anything that happens later is the dieter's fault and not really part of the diet. People act like the only part that is the diet's fault is the beginning bit. The long-term part, people always say that's not the diet, that's the person. And yet, it's clear that that's not true. It's over the long term that you see all these biological changes take control.

In your book, you talk a bit about how one of the most glaring problems with dieting is how we define a successful diet. What are we getting wrong?

When people lose weight on a diet, they call it a success. And if the weight comes back on, they don't say that the diet wasn't successful — they say 'I blew it.' But that's not correct. It's all part of the diet.

We've conducted studies where we have brought dieters and non-dieters into the lab, and distracted them a little bit. What we have found is that when distracted, dieters eat more than non-dieters. In fact, distraction only affects how much dieters eat. A simple little thing like that tells you that if you're trying to resist eating, the subtlest things can mess you up. All these little things cause dieters to fail in resisting food that don't really affect people who aren't dieting.


Through the years, I have looked tirelessly for things that help people diet, but all I have ever found are things that trip them up.

What about willpower? People love to talk about willpower as though it's what separates the winners from the losers. Is that fair?

An idea that I want to float, if I might, is that willpower is actually a very different thing when you talk about eating. Willpower can be extremely useful in certain parts of people's lives. But when it comes to eating, it's just not the problem. It's not the fix.

I didn't do this in the book, but let me try to explain why.

Let's say you're in a meeting, and someone brings in a box of doughnuts. If you're dieting, now you need to resist a doughnut. That is going to take many, many acts of self-control. You don't just resist it when it comes into the room — you resist it when you look up and notice it, and that might happen 19 times, or 90 times. But if you eat it on the 20th time, it doesn't matter how good your willpower was. If you end up eating it, you don't get credit for having resisted it all those times. In virtually any other arena, that would be an A+, but in eating that's an F.

So it's for reasons like that that someone's willpower, which is measurable by the way, does not correlate with people's weight. It just doesn't. But, and here's the thing, it does correlate with tons of other stuff, like SAT scores, grade point average, and all kinds of other achievement outcomes. And if you think about it, that makes perfect sense. If you're studying for an exam, and give in to checking Facebook, those 10 minutes that you waste don't erase the studying you did before. You haven't lost anything. Whereas with eating, when you suffer that one moment of weakness, it actually undoes all the successful willpower that came before it.

Would you say that it's pointless then to try to lose weight? Or are we simply doing it wrong?

I don't think people should try to live at a lower weight than their set range. If you try to lose weight so that you're below your set weight range, that I believe is folly, or farce. It's not healthy. It's what sets off all those biological changes that are effectively trying to defend your set range. When your body goes lower than your set range, it makes changes to bump your weight back into it. And what people don't know is that if your weight goes above it, it also makes changes to push it back down into the ideal weight.


I do understand that people are people, and want to look a certain way. I get that, of course. That's why I recommend trying to be at the lower end of that set range. I'm trying to convince people that that's the right place to be. It's a healthy place to be, and an easy place to be. It's the sweet spot.

So people should feel comfortable just as they are? That seems like a pretty tough truth to swallow.

If you think about it, people do drop below their set range and stay there. A small percentage of dieters — something like 5 percent — can do it. And they do do it. But they do it by devoting every minute of their life to staying at that weight. Basically, they spend their entire life living like a starving person, fighting biology, and evolution. And to me that seems wrong.

People who have the means to not be starving to death should not be starving to death. How can we ask that of people? It just seems outrageous to me.

What's really sad to me is that it isn't just society that blames dieters when they gain weight. Dieters blame themselves, and I really think that that's a shame. They're in a situation where food looks more tempting, they're hungrier than they should be, their body is getting by on fewer calories, and everything is just working against them. And yet people are always so quick to say, 'well, it was their hand holding the fork.'

I find that to be such a frustrating comment to respond to. Yes, it is their hand holding the fork, but it's the context that is much more important here. There are so many things that affect your ability to control what you do with that fork, that make it impossible to not pick it up. If I could help people understand anything, it would be that.

[ESF]

This was a really great read. Thanks for posting.

[partyinmytummy]

JFC this is depressing.

[simpsongal]

Good read - I particularly like the end part about the set weight range. I definitely have a "happy" weight range. I used to try to stay under that range but it did take every ounce of my willpower and commitment to staying that way. For a lot less effort and a lot more happiness I can stay around my current weight. And that's fine with me.

[pescalita]

Amen

ETA: Also, do we need to wait for the thin priveldge people to come in and say "well yeah but you could just eat healthy and weigh a little bit less!" Or can we skip that part of Fat Tuesday?

[MrsAxilla]

May 4, 2015 22:27:01 GMT -5 @tooshort said:

I was saying something similar to my H. I told him I wished mfp would calculate all the calories I didn't eat. All the cookies I passed up or the chips.

Thank you for posting this.

See, I disagree with her on this.  I think they DO matter.  It's the cumulative effect that's the problem.  I'm not coming at this from a weight loss perspective, though, and maybe that matters.  We had to change our diet because of DH's health.  We eat vegan most of the time, but it's not like we can NEVER have other, unhealthy things.  Our diet is vastly different than it was a year ago, but that was a slow process.

[MrsAxilla]

May 4, 2015 23:51:44 GMT -5 pescalita said:

Amen

ETA: Also, do we need to wait for the thin priveldge people to come in and say "well yeah but you could just eat healthy and weigh a little bit less!" Or can we skip that part of Fat Tuesday?

Oh man.  I typed most of my post, watched GOT and then hit reply before I saw this.   It's definitely been hard, but every day we don't eat cheeseburgers and ice cream is a win, even if we do go out for cheeseburgers and ice cream once and a while.  

[origami]

How do you know what your set range is?

I also have the same question about whether this applies to vegans, or gluten-free or the others in the "diets that aren't about losing weight" category.

[rupertpenny]

I also want to know how to know what your set range is.

If you are above your set range, is it possible to get to that range? Is it just foolhardy to try and go below that?

Is trying not to get fat in the first place the only thing you can do?

[ringstrue]

Wtf is set range? Maybe that's the next book .

I agree with her about "living like a starving person" especially with those damn "eat yourself skinny" mantras. Um! That's not how our bodies work! Can you imagine a wild life show showing animals choosing certain foods that will make them skinny? We are animals living successfully on the planet. That means there will be body fat.

What I hate about these articles is the definition of a "diet". Diet= meal plan, ok? What she seems to be referring to as the problem are fad/trendy weight loss plans.

Also, this is why Weight Watchers is hard for me. It's too much thinking about food I can't have.

[erbear]

May 4, 2015 23:05:01 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Good read - I particularly like the end part about the set weight range. I definitely have a "happy" weight range. I used to try to stay under that range but it did take every ounce of my willpower and commitment to staying that way. For a lot less effort and a lot more happiness I can stay around my current weight. And that's fine with me.

I finally came to this conclusion recently too. My body settled where it did, and no amount of dieting or exercise was making it budge, so I've tried to make peace with it. 

[lizard1131]

I guess I don't understand how having a doughnut one time undoes your previous denials? What if your set weight is makes you feel awful? I have been really working to change my whole life...mentally (why I eat when I do), exercising, eating real food, etc. It doesn't feel like a diet and I finally feel in control of my mind and body. Some of these articles about diets not working have been really depressing. When is it a diet and when is it just your life? I don't know if this makes any sense. I have had PCOS since my early 20s and have been struggling since then. I finally realized in the last 6 months or so that to feel healthy and good I was going to have to work harder than other people and that was ok. It was just the hand I was dealt. Again, I am rambling, but this spate of 'oh diets are bad, they don't work' is just getting to me.

[Deleted]

May 5, 2015 2:38:37 GMT -5 peachy said:

I don't get this. What makes something a diet vs just how you eat? Restricting certain food groups? Lots of people do that successfully for years. I guess I'm not getting the point.

Also this seems aimed at people who naturally settle at a healthy weight. Sure, if you're at a healthy weight, maybe it's not worth the stress and vigilance to fight for an extra 5-10 pounds. What about those whose weight poses a health risk? "Dieting" or eating healthy is **hard** but some of us have to do it.

Yeah I agree. I think the overall premise of the article is good but most people aren't at their "natural" weight due to the food choices we have in this country...hello obesity epidemic.

I guess this article is aimed at those people who want to lose those last few "vanity" pounds,

[tacosforlife]

This post has inspired me to go get fresh pretzels for breakfast. I am going to think about them all damn day and will probably wind up caving on my afternoon walk. Might as well just go now and stop torturing myself since I get no credit for morning denial if I go this afternoon.

#probablymissedthepoint #teamfatass

[dirtyred]

I wonder if the speed at which the weight comes off plays into the.  Everyone wants to lose the weight as quickly as possible instead of very slowly...Maybe the quick loss triggers this effect more strongly.

[AJL]

I really enjoy food. I love eating new things and trying new cuisines. I hate having to restrict when I'm on a "diet."  So I stopped going on diets. For me, I discovered that I am happiest when I eat what I want to feel satisfied and get active.  Lately, I've done more eating and less being active and I can tell how it's affecting me because my body is sore and inflexible and generally just feels rusty and old. So I have to remind myself that I need to go for a walk, take a splash around the pool, explore that trail head off the greenbelt, etc. 

I don't care about losing weight anymore. I care about feeling good in my body. I've done the diets. I've counted the calories. I've felt deprived and unhappy that I couldn't just use the eat-less-move-more formula and lose 80 pounds. So you said fuck all that. I'm going to eat what I like and move my body in a way that makes me happy. 

This is a difficult mindset to have especially when the societal message is still thin=health, thin=happy, thin=beautiful, thin=deserving of love.

[mrshandy]

May 5, 2015 7:50:47 GMT -5 @wandering said:

May 5, 2015 2:38:37 GMT -5 peachy said:

I don't get this. What makes something a diet vs just how you eat? Restricting certain food groups? Lots of people do that successfully for years. I guess I'm not getting the point.

Also this seems aimed at people who naturally settle at a healthy weight. Sure, if you're at a healthy weight, maybe it's not worth the stress and vigilance to fight for an extra 5-10 pounds. What about those whose weight poses a health risk? "Dieting" or eating healthy is **hard** but some of us have to do it.

Yeah I agree. I think the overall premise of the article is good but most people aren't at their "natural" weight due to the food choices we have in this country...hello obesity epidemic.

I guess this article is aimed at those people who want to lose those last few "vanity" pounds,

Amen. I can't get behind the idea that people should not eat healthier. There is a serious problem in this country. It's funny, I don't notice as much until I travel outside of my bubble and I can't find natural peanut butter at the grocery store, the only places to eat are fast food or a crazy-ass all you can eat buffet place that I realize where the problem is coming from.

[Bernadine]

Articles like these alwasys make me feel like a failure for gaining the weight in the first place, and yet I still can't stop reading them.

[tacosforlife]

I'm sorry. I can't read everyone's responses to this article because my iPad is covered in crumbs.

[ESF]

May 5, 2015 8:39:08 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I know this is CEP but for once can we post a story about why diets suck and fat people should stop beating themselves up and hating themselves etc for not having willpower and control and so on and nobody come in and tell us all the many ways for why the research is flawed and doesn't work and why just eating better and moving more is still the best solution?!

Some of us have problems with willpower and control, REAL problems that we struggle with every day all day long and yes, when I have gone all day resisting a donut (which actually isn't an issue for me as I only like 3 kinds of donuts total LOL!) and then I finally break down and eat ALL OF THE DONUTS I then feel like shit, like a failure, like someone out of control?

CAN I JUST HAVE THIS GODDAMNED STORY TODAY, PLEASE?!

THANK YOU

[tacosforlife]

May 5, 2015 8:39:08 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I know this is CEP but for once can we post a story about why diets suck and fat people should stop beating themselves up and hating themselves etc for not having willpower and control and so on and nobody come in and tell us all the many ways for why the research is flawed and doesn't work and why just eating better and moving more is still the best solution?!

Some of us have problems with willpower and control, REAL problems that we struggle with every day all day long and yes, when I have gone all day resisting a donut (which actually isn't an issue for me as I only like 3 kinds of donuts total LOL!) and then I finally break down and eat ALL OF THE DONUTS I then feel like shit, like a failure, like someone out of control?

CAN I JUST HAVE THIS GODDAMNED STORY TODAY, PLEASE?!

Why does this not surprise me?

[pescalita]

May 5, 2015 8:08:19 GMT -5 AJL said:

I really enjoy food. I love eating new things and trying new cuisines. I hate having to restrict when I'm on a "diet."  So I stopped going on diets. For me, I discovered that I am happiest when I eat what I want to feel satisfied and get active.  Lately, I've done more eating and less being active and I can tell how it's affecting me because my body is sore and inflexible and generally just feels rusty and old. So I have to remind myself that I need to go for a walk, take a splash around the pool, explore that trail head off the greenbelt, etc. 

I don't care about losing weight anymore. I care about feeling good in my body. I've done the diets. I've counted the calories. I've felt deprived and unhappy that I couldn't just use the eat-less-move-more formula and lose 80 pounds. So you said fuck all that. I'm going to eat what I like and move my body in a way that makes me happy. 

This is a difficult mindset to have especially when the societal message is still thin=health, thin=happy, thin=beautiful, thin=deserving of love.

YES. I've been doing this more or less the last 5+ years, incidentally since I treated my depression and anxiety. It's hard a lot of the time. I get upset about the way I look sometimes. I get upset if I can't fit into a certain size. But this is who I am. I am never going to be a size 6, and it's not because of any personal failure.

I feel for those who are depressed by stuff like this. It's hard to accept, society makes it hard to accept. But there's someone to love under there, promise.

[pescalita]

May 4, 2015 23:51:44 GMT -5 pescalita said:

Amen

ETA: Also, do we need to wait for the thin priveldge people to come in and say "well yeah but you could just eat healthy and weigh a little bit less!" Or can we skip that part of Fat Tuesday?

FFS, I guess not.

Spoiler alert: fatties don't eat cheeseburgers and ice cream for lunch followed by a fast food all-you-can eat buffet for dinner.

"Diet" = anything that involves carefully and meticulously measuring and meting every morsel that goes into your mouth such that you develop an unhealthy relationship with food.

She mentioned at the end about staying at the low end of your set weight. So this "but but but you have to be healthy!!!" point is already made. Healthy behavior =/= thin.

HEALTHY BEHAVIOR =/= THIN

JUST PUT DOWN THE CHEESEBURGERS FATTIES.

[pixy0stix]

I wonder if she's studied the people who emotionally eat.

My dh gained 50+ lbs over the last year and half (understandably). Saturday I watched him mainline an entire bag of licorice that he went out and bought (as in left the house specifically for that purpose) because he was incredibly disappointed about something.

Surely that's different than those who set out purely to diet. Right?

[gottadobe]

May 5, 2015 7:50:47 GMT -5 @wandering said:

May 5, 2015 2:38:37 GMT -5 peachy said:

I don't get this. What makes something a diet vs just how you eat? Restricting certain food groups? Lots of people do that successfully for years. I guess I'm not getting the point.

Also this seems aimed at people who naturally settle at a healthy weight. Sure, if you're at a healthy weight, maybe it's not worth the stress and vigilance to fight for an extra 5-10 pounds. What about those whose weight poses a health risk? "Dieting" or eating healthy is **hard** but some of us have to do it.

Yeah I agree. I think the overall premise of the article is good but most people aren't at their "natural" weight due to the food choices we have in this country...hello obesity epidemic.

I guess this article is aimed at those people who want to lose those last few "vanity" pounds,

This is where I'm at. 
It otherwise makes no sense to say "Don't even try!"

[darnkatz]

May 5, 2015 8:08:19 GMT -5 AJL said:

I really enjoy food. I love eating new things and trying new cuisines. I hate having to restrict when I'm on a "diet."  So I stopped going on diets. For me, I discovered that I am happiest when I eat what I want to feel satisfied and get active.  Lately, I've done more eating and less being active and I can tell how it's affecting me because my body is sore and inflexible and generally just feels rusty and old. So I have to remind myself that I need to go for a walk, take a splash around the pool, explore that trail head off the greenbelt, etc. 

I don't care about losing weight anymore. I care about feeling good in my body. I've done the diets. I've counted the calories. I've felt deprived and unhappy that I couldn't just use the eat-less-move-more formula and lose 80 pounds. So you said fuck all that. I'm going to eat what I like and move my body in a way that makes me happy. 

This is a difficult mindset to have especially when the societal message is still thin=health, thin=happy, thin=beautiful, thin=deserving of love.

Oh god, yes. I know I'm a broken record in these threads, but yes. Life is too short to spend it hating yourself and obsessing. Move your body, eat food that is good for you, eat food that is bad for you in smaller quantities, and realize that you limit your tomorrows if you spend your days binging and/or obsessing.

I don't diet. It doesn't work for me. It makes me angry and hateful and mean. I make lifestyle choices. I make a conscious effort to do something active that is good for my body and for my soul. I hate running, so I don't do it. I love walking and yoga, so I incorporate it into my daily routine. I don't stick with things that I hate. I spent years counting calories and obsessing over a number on the scale that doesn't factor in self-worth, and I'm over it, man. Do I fuck up? Oh yes, I do. Just this past week has been a nightmare in terms of binging. I woke up out of a stupor and found myself surrounded by my typical binge foods - just in wrapper form, because I had already eaten them all. But I'm fighting to get out of that pit because I deserve better than that. I am not defined by a number on a scale or by cellulite or by leftover skin. I am not defined by the times I mess up and find myself in a dark place. I am defined by the way that I pull myself out and move on. My life will never revolve around a diet again, and just saying that gives me the lightest fucking feeling that is just indescribable. Fuck diets.

[aurora]

May 5, 2015 8:39:08 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I know this is CEP but for once can we post a story about why diets suck and fat people should stop beating themselves up and hating themselves etc for not having willpower and control and so on and nobody come in and tell us all the many ways for why the research is flawed and doesn't work and why just eating better and moving more is still the best solution?!

Some of us have problems with willpower and control, REAL problems that we struggle with every day all day long and yes, when I have gone all day resisting a donut (which actually isn't an issue for me as I only like 3 kinds of donuts total LOL!) and then I finally break down and eat ALL OF THE DONUTS I then feel like shit, like a failure, like someone out of control?

CAN I JUST HAVE THIS GODDAMNED STORY TODAY, PLEASE?!

Well, this is CEP, so...can we at least all jump on the debate regarding whether our ag industry being in bed with Congress makes it so much harder for everyone to maintain a healthy weight?

[pescalita]

May 5, 2015 9:02:12 GMT -5 gottadobe said:

May 5, 2015 7:50:47 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Yeah I agree. I think the overall premise of the article is good but most people aren't at their "natural" weight due to the food choices we have in this country...hello obesity epidemic.

I guess this article is aimed at those people who want to lose those last few "vanity" pounds,

This is where I'm at. 
It otherwise makes no sense to say "Don't even try!"

This is not at all what the article says. I think it actually applies MORE to the obese.

ETA: specifically, because for someone who just needs to lose a few vanity pounds, maybe that is the low end of their set point (and maybe not). But for someone who is obese, it is objectively more difficult (to the point of scientifically improbable) to get to a normal weight.

[ttt]

The point of this article isn't "don't even try." She's not saying "it's ok, just eat donuts all day." She's saying, realistically, if you try to diet, you will fail because nearly everyone fails, so stop feeling like you're a moral failure if you can't do it."

[ESF]

May 5, 2015 3:00:25 GMT -5 origami said:

How do you know what your set range is?

I also have the same question about whether this applies to vegans, or gluten-free or the others in the "diets that aren't about losing weight" category.

I think it's different. I'm sure @bunnybean has some thoughts on this too, but I was successfully a vegetarian for years, and I didn't walk around craving a hamburger non-stop like I do now, when I spend my day trying not to walk down to the coffee shop on the corner for a pastry.  

I've had some short term success on lower carb diets, and the two are not entirely unlike each other, as both are structured around the idea that you've eliminated something from your diet.  You just can't have any of it, not you can't just have it occasionally.  At some point, your brain stops thinking about that stuff as food.

Where the two diverge is because vegetarianism is a food choice you want to make.  Dieting is a food choice you have to make.  But dieting doesn't come with the same immediate feelings of pain and sickness that say a celiac would feel if they ate a bowl of pasta.  And if a vegetarian or a gluten-free by choice person eats bacon or a bowl of pasta, they're still accomplishing their goal of eating less meat/gluten. Society isn't judging them, and won't judge them if they decide to throw in the towel on their experiment.  When a low carb person eats the pasta, they've blown their diet for the day.

As for set range, when you've done years of weight struggling, you just know.  For me, I've bounced between a size 16 and size 20 pant for 10+ years.  Mostly, I'm an 18.  My body just seems to want to be that weight.  I diet and exercise my way to a 16 to go on vacation, I eat like a normal human that is on vacation while on vacation (so more eating out and fewer healthy choices, but I'm not mainlining McDonalds, you know?), and I come back and my size 16 jeans are now too tight, the 18s are loose but comfortable.  Then come back to a house without groceries and a pile of work to do, I'm too jet lagged to go to the 6 am gym class, and suddenly, I'm back in a routine where I'm behaving like a normal person instead of a person on a diet. A sudden trip out of town to visit my sick MIL and the takeout that follows there, and suddenly, in 4 weeks, I'm solidly in 18 category, blowing six months of dieting.   The weight doesn't really pile on quite as easy from that point on, I have to be making bad choices instead of normal ones for it to start going on. And when the 18 pants start to get too tight, the pounds come back off again so much easier.  It's still a shitton of work, but it's more like a 1.5-2 pound a week kind of progress, not 1 pound a week kind of progress.