Fat Tuesday -- Shape up to join the Army

[eliseb0323]

The Army is developing a program aimed at kids age 10-18 to combat child obesity. Obesity is a big issue in terms of future recruiting. Right now only about 1 in 5 people age 18-24 is eligible to join the Army due to obesity, other health problems, lack of high school diploma, or criminal record.

Basically, the Army would offer the program to overweight kids through schools. Along with fitness and nutrition education, recruiters would talk to the kids about the benefits of joining the Army. Note that right now, recruiters are not allowed into public Elementary schools and most middle schools.

I am not a fan of the idea, and don't like the idea of the Army telling parents their kids is overweight and trying to get them to think about enlisting at such a young age. Recruiters do routinely work with overweight high school kids
who want to enlist.

This kind of program would have to be approved by Congress, which I don't see happening, but you never know what Congress will do these days.

[Daria Morgandorffer]

Oh hell no.

[chichimi]

I dont mind the military going in to educate middle schoolers on what would be required should they decide to enlist. I think its a good time for kids to start thinking about some of their life goals and get on the right track, just as they would take certain classes if they planned to go to college.

[hawkeye]

The Marines will take anybody.

Problem solved.

[chichimi]

Aug 14, 2012 10:06:17 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:03:11 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

I dont mind the military going in to educate middle schoolers on what would be required should they decide to enlist. I think its a good time for kids to start thinking about some of their life goals and get on the right track, just as they would take certain classes if they planned to go to college.

The problem is that recruiters don't just educate them on what would be required. They actively talk it up, make it sound terribly seductive, and play on kids' emotions. You'll make lots of money! You'll get to buy a car! You'll have all these awesome friends! You'll get to go cool places!.

I'll be okay with Army recruiters when they allow college reps and tech school reps to come in at the same time.

Middle schools ask college reps to come all the time. I dont have the time or much interest in doing so for schools outside my immediate area. College reps are going to talk up the benefits of going to college as well.

[eliseb0323]

Aug 14, 2012 9:48:50 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

I'm so against this. I know people who were lied to, stalked and intimidated by recruiters; and I don't relish the military coming into an elementary school and trying to plant seeds in the minds of children.

When were recruiters stalking and intimidating people? Army recruiting has cleaned up its act to a great extent in the last few years. Mostly because the recession has been good for military recruiting and there are more people who want to join than the military can take.

[pixy0stix]

If we want to touch upon the threads of yesterday, the military is a good option for kids who have no other options, and may drop out before they finish high school.

[wrathofkuus]

I happened to read this thread right after reading the one about Chinese Olympic athletes, and the juxtaposition frightens me a little.

[eliseb0323]

Aug 14, 2012 10:10:54 GMT -5 hawkeye said:

The Marines will take anybody.

Problem solved.

Interestingly, did you know that Toys for Tots is considered a recruiting program? Recruiters can't legally approach kids under a certain age and try to get them to join the service, but the Marines can hand out toys to kids in uniform. The other services wish they had come up with Toys for Tots.

[chichimi]

Aug 14, 2012 10:05:19 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

you think middle school is the time to be thinking about life goals?

I think its about time to look at what steps are necessary to achieve your general goals, yes. If you dont take the right classes, you are going to have a hard time getting into college. If you are obese, you are going to have a hard time losing the weight so you can enlist.
Honestly, at this point, almost anything to help child obesity I am going to be in support of.

[downtoearth]

Aug 14, 2012 10:13:29 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

If we want to touch upon the threads of yesterday, the military is a good option for kids who have no other options, and may drop out before they finish high school.

That is very interesting b/c the 4 people I know in active duty and the 4 that have since left 7 were all ROTC-officer types that enlisted for education $$ or to go to the academy, none had "no other options."

Only one enlisted right out of high school, did his turns at war in the middle east, but went into a technical sort-of field (programing and working with drone spy planes) and has since left and become a high school teacher.

I guess I missed yesterday, but I also might not have a very diverse group of friends/family to anecdotally pull from.

As for an obesity program run by the military at elementary/middle-school ages, I am not for that at all. Why not give some of those military $$ for the program to public schools and leave that up to the health and PE teachers to coordinate (says the daughter of a very concerned PE teacher mom who has seen obesity rise and activity levels fall in her 20+ years of teaching elementary PE).

[wrathofkuus]

Aug 14, 2012 10:15:25 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:05:19 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

you think middle school is the time to be thinking about life goals?

I think its about time to look at what steps are necessary to achieve your general goals, yes. If you dont take the right classes, you are going to have a hard time getting into college. If you are obese, you are going to have a hard time losing the weight so you can enlist.
Honestly, at this point, almost anything to help child obesity I am going to be in support of.

Yes, lose the weight and be healthy so we can send you off to die!

[Melissa W.]

I agree with Lucy that recruits were allowed way too much access to the high school that I went to. Far more than the college reps were allowed. Maybe it had to do with being in a Navy town but the recruiter for the Army was ALWAYS there.

[emilyj]

Aug 14, 2012 10:15:25 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:05:19 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

you think middle school is the time to be thinking about life goals?

I think its about time to look at what steps are necessary to achieve your general goals, yes. If you dont take the right classes, you are going to have a hard time getting into college. If you are obese, you are going to have a hard time losing the weight so you can enlist.
Honestly, at this point, almost anything to help child obesity I am going to be in support of.

I don't think military recruiters are the correct people to be coming in and educating about weight loss and obesity issues though.

There are a shit ton of other reasons to lose weight then enlisting in the military.

[wrathofkuus]

I was hounded by recruiters like that in high school, too.

[eliseb0323]

Aug 14, 2012 10:23:34 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:12:11 GMT -5 eliseb0323 said:

When were recruiters stalking and intimidating people? Army recruiting has cleaned up its act to a great extent in the last few years. Mostly because the recession has been good for military recruiting and there are more people who want to join than the military can take.

There are literally thousands of stories of recruitment where the recruiter has either bent the truth or blatantly lied, pandering to kids' emotions. Seriously, just Google it. You'll find a massive amount of them.

Recruiters have quotas. And some of them do unscrupulous things to achieve those quotas, to make their mission. One of my friends from high school ended up in the Army, and is now a recruiter, and has some horrifying stories to tell. Kids from my school were approached repeatedly, despite indicating they had no interest, to the extent that it was nearly harassment. One guy who initially expressed interest and then changed his mind was contacted constantly, weekly, for TWO YEARS before they finally gave up.

I'm not saying all recruiters are this way; but I've seen and heard enough in my own life that it makes me instantly suspicious of them on the whole.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, Lucy. I am asking what the time frame was of your experience. I work for the guy who used to be in charge of Army recruiting and cracking down on unethical behavior by recruiters was one of his big priorities.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 14, 2012 10:20:15 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

I guess I missed yesterday, but I also might not have a very diverse group of friends/family to anecdotally pull from.

The threads yesterday were talking about abject poverty, how to help the kids who have no future, and keeping the men out of the poverty cycle of going to jail, etc.

We're not talking kids who grow up in the middle class and have the opportunity to join ROTC. We're talking about the kids whose mothers are 14 years old and the only academic achievements they'll probably make is getting their GED from high school at some point down the road.

THIS is what needs to happen for those kids. Not charity organizations that mouth platitudes and give out handouts with a side of guilt. These kids need something concrete to work for.

And no, it isn't ideal to be training kids to go to war. However, all the other solutions are hypothetical hand-wringing "what shall we dooooooooooo???"

[Deleted]

I didn't realize that the Army was having recruiting problems, because last I heard, around here, they were turning people away because they consistently meet their quotas.

[chichimi]

Aug 14, 2012 10:23:21 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:15:25 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

I think its about time to look at what steps are necessary to achieve your general goals, yes. If you dont take the right classes, you are going to have a hard time getting into college. If you are obese, you are going to have a hard time losing the weight so you can enlist.
Honestly, at this point, almost anything to help child obesity I am going to be in support of.

I don't think military recruiters are the correct people to be coming in and educating about weight loss and obesity issues though.

There are a shit ton of other reasons to lose weight then enlisting in the military.

They certainly arent the ideal people to teach kids about weight loss and obesity but our doctors, parents, and educators arent doing the trick so eventually more has to be done.

[wrathofkuus]

I am severely squicked out at the idea of brainwashing the uber-low classes into working hard to be cannon fodder. That is some China style bullshit.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 14, 2012 10:30:21 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

I am severely squicked out at the idea of brainwashing the uber-low classes into working hard to be cannon fodder. That is some China style bullshit.

So it's better to let them rot in the underclass with no hope and no options? Because that's happening right now as well.

[eliseb0323]

Aug 14, 2012 10:29:28 GMT -5 @mjmksb04 said:

I didn't realize that the Army was having recruiting problems, because last I heard, around here, they were turning people away because they consistently meet their quotas.

The Army is not having recruiting problems now -- mostly due to the recession. The Army is projected to have problems in the next ten years. Like I said, right now, about 20% of people age 18-24 qualify to serve, and a big reason people don't qualify is obesity, which is projected to grow.

2007 (before the recession) was the worst year ever for Army recruiting, and we were in real danger of losing the All-Volunteer Army.

[eliseb0323]

Aug 14, 2012 10:30:21 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

I am severely squicked out at the idea of brainwashing the uber-low classes into working hard to be cannon fodder. That is some China style bullshit.

I guess if you only consider people who serve in the military to be cannon fodder, I would be worried too.

[wrathofkuus]

Aug 14, 2012 10:31:59 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:30:21 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

I am severely squicked out at the idea of brainwashing the uber-low classes into working hard to be cannon fodder. That is some China style bullshit.

So it's better to let them rot in the underclass with no hope and no options? Because that's happening right now as well.

Why not just euthanize them directly? It's at least more honest.

[bab]

Aug 14, 2012 10:06:17 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:03:11 GMT -5 @chichimi said:

I dont mind the military going in to educate middle schoolers on what would be required should they decide to enlist. I think its a good time for kids to start thinking about some of their life goals and get on the right track, just as they would take certain classes if they planned to go to college.

The problem is that recruiters don't just educate them on what would be required. They actively talk it up, make it sound terribly seductive, and play on kids' emotions. You'll make lots of money! You'll get to buy a car! You'll have all these awesome friends! You'll get to go cool places!.

I'll be okay with Army recruiters when they allow college reps and tech school reps to come in at the same time.

:Y: LIKE :Y:

[wrathofkuus]

Aug 14, 2012 10:35:49 GMT -5 eliseb0323 said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:30:21 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

I am severely squicked out at the idea of brainwashing the uber-low classes into working hard to be cannon fodder. That is some China style bullshit.

I guess if you only consider people who serve in the military to be cannon fodder, I would be worried too.

Well, we're talking about the underclasses as though they have few choices and options, which is probably true, but as an alternative we want to brainwash them into giving up even the simple right to decide what causes they're willing to die for? That's appalling.

[eliseb0323]

Aug 14, 2012 10:37:53 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:35:49 GMT -5 eliseb0323 said:

I guess if you only consider people who serve in the military to be cannon fodder, I would be worried too.

Well, we're talking about the underclasses as though they have few choices and options, which is probably true, but as an alternative we want to brainwash them into giving up even the simple right to decide what causes they're willing to die for? That's appalling.

Since you feel this way, you should support any efforts that ensure we keep an All-Volunteer Army. Because you really won't like the alternative.

[pixy0stix]

kuus - Did you read this thread? pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=44156

I'll save you some time and point you to mx's post on page 4.

The military isn't a great option, but it's an option. An option to get out of the hellhole of the lives these people are leading. It's also a respected occupation in the lower class without the stigma of "trying to better yourself by going to college."

[wrathofkuus]

Aug 14, 2012 10:40:36 GMT -5 eliseb0323 said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:37:53 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

Well, we're talking about the underclasses as though they have few choices and options, which is probably true, but as an alternative we want to brainwash them into giving up even the simple right to decide what causes they're willing to die for? That's appalling.

Since you feel this way, you should support any efforts that ensure we keep an All-Volunteer Army. Because you really won't like the alternative.

What in the world ever made you think I was in favor of the draft?

[eliseb0323]

Aug 14, 2012 10:40:16 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Aug 14, 2012 10:33:36 GMT -5 eliseb0323 said:

The Army is not having recruiting problems now -- mostly due to the recession. The Army is projected to have problems in the next ten years. Like I said, right now, about 20% of people age 18-24 qualify to serve, and a big reason people don't qualify is obesity, which is projected to grow.

2007 (before the recession) was the worst year ever for Army recruiting, and we were in real danger of losing the All-Volunteer Army.

If only there were a way to need a smaller armed forces...

The Army will be recruiting for an increasingly smaller force over the next ten years.