HELP! Maybe moving to UK?

[amberlyrose]

DH may have a job offer internally, but the global HR retention rep wants us to figure out COL with our current salaries (it's possible I could keep my current job) and give her an analysis. I'd also be able to get a visa, but probably making less $. 
His job would be in Basingstoke while mine would be in London if I stay with current company. 
Would we need a car? What areas would be good to look at while searching rental prices? Would we need to figure in bills there that we don't here?

[marriedfilingjoint]

I was thinking Basingstoke was way out there but Googlemaps says it's only an hour train ride to central London. Do you know where in London your company's office is? If it's central London or southwest, you could split the commute and look in the Chertsey/Weybridge area. My husband works there, it's nice but expensive. I think having a car to share would be ideal. We do fine with one car, we could maybe get by without but we are closer to the city, maybe someone else could speak to how the transportation is in Basingstoke.

Bills-there's a TV tax if you want cable. Public transportation is way more expensive than I thought it was going to be. I don't have a ton of insight on cost of living because DH's company pays for our rent, car, and gas, but I will say that they gave him a 25% bump in pay and it still doesn't feel like enough. The way I explain it is you see prices on menus, in the grocery store, etc, and whatever something would cost in the US in dollars, that's how much it costs in pounds, and then you figure the 1.5 exchange rate (am I explaining this well? Think of a meal at a casual dining restaurant. It would be $15 in the US. A meal here in a similar restaurant would be 15GBP, so that's really $22.50, does that make sense?). Do you have children? I pay about 3 times what I paid in the US for similar child care.

I'm fairly new here but I'm sure the others will have much more insight. I'm not trying to be discouraging about the cost, I'm just saying, don't be shy--you may feel like you're asking for what seems like a lot but it really isn't.

[amberlyrose]

No kids I've been to London a few times and have taken the train through Basingstoke on the way to Salisbury. My office at current company would be near Tower of London, but we have client sites that I may sit at if I have to transfer to a new position. My job is currently work from home and I just need to be within 100 miles of my office.

The other issue is our dogs that I refuse to leave behind. I'd let go of DH before I left my dogs.

[loira]

Finding somewhere to rent if you have pets is easier here than in North America, so it shouldn't be a problem to bring your dogs. London is also very dog friendly - dogs go on public transport, can sit with you at cafes etc.

Rent prices vary enormously depending on area. I'm in a studio in a very nice area that costs us around £1300 pcm, but if we moved out to Acton, we could probably get a 2 bed flat for that. London is a very expensive city in general.

[marriedfilingjoint]

Jun 30, 2015 14:44:03 GMT -5 amberlyrose said:

No kids I've been to London a few times and have taken the train through Basingstoke on the way to Salisbury. My office at current company would be near Tower of London, but we have client sites that I may sit at if I have to transfer to a new position. My job is currently work from home and I just need to be within 100 miles of my office.

The other issue is our dogs that I refuse to leave behind. I'd let go of DH before I left my dogs.

Oh, that's great then.  I'm also working from home.

Pets would be my next question.  I think they've loosened up the rules and it's a lot easier and cheaper to get them over here than it used to be.  The main concern will be that different airlines have different rules about pets on international flights, whether they can be in the cabin or if they have to be checked below, etc.  Just make sure you research your options before booking flights rather than after because it will probably impact what airline you fly.

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2015 3:39:39 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

@uwhuskygirl can speak to renting with a dog, but when I last asked her it wasn't necessarily so easy to find a place and, of course, size matters plus it sounds like you have at least two dogs. 

I think the other ladies have most of your other questions covered. 

We moved our dog from the US here (I was like you where I'd rather give up H than my dog), so that was a non-negotiable piece in our relocation package. Thankfully H's company was super cool with it and paid the whole cost of getting her here. They assigned us a pet relocation company. The company did all of the paperwork for us, arranged flights, made sure she cleared customs and then delivered her to us at the hotel. It was about $5k to have the full moving service. As long as you follow the paperwork to a T (including the USDA stamp), do the shots, get the pills and microchip then your dogs shouldn't have to go in to quarantine. My dog was able to walk right through. 

I have 2 friends that moved their pugs over and they did it themselves (said it was a big headache), but it was pretty much only the cost of the flights. 

Anyway, so actually having a dog here is a breeze compared to the US. Like others have said they're allowed on busses and the tube. Only once have I come across a grouchy bus driver that told us we had to sit upstairs (you don't actually), but it's super easy getting around with them, especially since we don't have a car here. You can bring the dogs to a lot of pubs/restaurants/bars and people will give them dishes of water and sometimes treats. 

As for housing, I found it to be a huge pain in the ass. I looked at probably 20 places before we settled on our place. We decided that having a garden (yard) was important, so that narrowed us down to basement flats. And then on top of that to sweeten the deal we offered a 2 year lease plus a 2 month security deposit. I'm the first to admit that our place is not amazing, but the location and yard were the most important things for us, so we got those. We're in zone 1 in about 650sqft now in a 1br/2ba place. Our friends with the 2 pugs are in zone 2 (I'm not sure how much they're paying), but they have a bigger 2br/1ba/yard for their two dogs. So, it's doable, but you just have to be prepared to pay for it and be really patient while looking. Like in the US not every place will take a dog and it's definitely a landlord's market here, so you just have to keep looking. 

Also, dog walkers are pretty easy to come by here. We have one that comes by twice a day (morning and afternoon) to take her out. She's out with him and his little gang 2-3 hours a day and has such a good time with them. It's £20 for the 2 walks a day. Then on top of that, he'll take her when we travel for £25 a night and she stays at his house with him and his dogs. That really helps with having a smaller place. 

And most parks here are dog friendly/off leash, so don't worry about green space for them to run. We've never had a shortage of parks to chose from.  

I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have too! Good luck! 


 

[marriedfilingjoint]

Jul 1, 2015 3:39:39 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

ETA: Make sure they cover the cost of a tax preparer in the U.S. and U.K.  This is the one piece of advice that everyone seems to insist on. 

Yes, this.  If either of you work for large companies, ask if they already have expat services arranged through the company to handle taxes. Many large companies with a lot of ex-pats already have an arrangement through one of the Big 4 Firms to handle both your US and UK taxes.   If not, be prepared to spend $2-$3K to have your US taxes prepared, and I have no idea how much for UK taxes.

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2015 7:00:27 GMT -5 marriedfilingjoint said:

Jul 1, 2015 3:39:39 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

ETA: Make sure they cover the cost of a tax preparer in the U.S. and U.K.  This is the one piece of advice that everyone seems to insist on. 

Yes, this.  If either of you work for large companies, ask if they already have expat services arranged through the company to handle taxes. Many large companies with a lot of ex-pats already have an arrangement through one of the Big 4 Firms to handle both your US and UK taxes.   If not, be prepared to spend $2-$3K to have your US taxes prepared, and I have no idea how much for UK taxes.

H's company would only pay the 1st year of taxes for us since he's considered a UK employee now. They set us up with PWC and it was like $4k to have them do it.

We used Greenback this year to do our US taxes and it was about $1000USD

www.greenbacktaxservices.com/ 

You'll get a letter in the mail if you need to file UK taxes. H's (American) coworker said that the UK taxes is a lot easier to file than the US ones and does it himself. H needed to file this year, but this is a good guide to see if you fall into one of these categories for needing to file: 

www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/who-must-send-a-tax-return 

[frlcb]

Jul 1, 2015 2:35:00 GMT -5 loira said:

Finding somewhere to rent if you have pets is easier here than in North America, so it shouldn't be a problem to bring your dogs. London is also very dog friendly - dogs go on public transport, can sit with you at cafes etc.

Rent prices vary enormously depending on area. I'm in a studio in a very nice area that costs us around £1300 pcm, but if we moved out to Acton, we could probably get a 2 bed flat for that. London is a very expensive city in general.

This was not our experience at all with pets, the opposite actually. We had a very hard time finding a place to allow our cats.

[loira]

Jul 1, 2015 8:33:32 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Jul 1, 2015 2:35:00 GMT -5 loira said:

Finding somewhere to rent if you have pets is easier here than in North America, so it shouldn't be a problem to bring your dogs. London is also very dog friendly - dogs go on public transport, can sit with you at cafes etc.

Rent prices vary enormously depending on area. I'm in a studio in a very nice area that costs us around £1300 pcm, but if we moved out to Acton, we could probably get a 2 bed flat for that. London is a very expensive city in general.

This was not our experience at all with pets, the opposite actually. We had a very hard time finding a place to allow our cats.

Hm, I have lots of friends who rent and have pets. Maybe it depends on the type of property. We're all still in 1 or 2 bed flats, not entire houses. Or maybe they just lie to their landlords... I'll have to investigate.

[pittpurple]

I know in Edinburgh it's really hard to rent with pets. Mostly my friends wait to buy before getting a pet.

We self-moved to Scotland so have never had any help with taxes or moving expenses or anything. Filing American taxes isn't that difficult for us, but we don't have any money left in the states so it's just a simple reporting of our income here. If you have investments / property / etc in the states it all gets more complicated.

I would try and avoid a car. We lived car free in Edinburgh for 8 years - petrol is expensive and parking is a faff even here, I can't imagine in London. Unless you live outside London and your husband commutes into the city, that might change your options.

And yes, I agree that to figure out what day to day stuff costs, just change the sign in the front. So if you spend $100 a week on groceries, it will likely be £100.

We worked out that we take home a greater proportion of our income here after paying taxes for National Insurance than we did in the states after paying health insurance but it would be worth checking that all out to make sure you aren't going backwards, particularly if there's any reason you'd get private insurance on top of the NHS.

Good tip on Council Tax - we had no idea and it was really overwhelming to find that out after moving over! I didn't have a job when we moved so we were on a tight, tight budget and that was a bad surprise.

[mrsukyankee]

I don't have much to add - the ladies have all covered it. But good luck!  And perhaps we can all do a doggy play date if you come over!

[amberlyrose]

Thank you ladies so much! DH went through here and used it to calculate costs between a dual income (mine + his converted) and single. It looks like we'd be perfectly fine if we went over at the same rate that we make now.

[expatpumpkin]

Jul 1, 2015 16:53:57 GMT -5 amberlyrose said:

Thank you ladies so much! DH went through here and used it to calculate costs between a dual income (mine + his converted) and single. It looks like we'd be perfectly fine if we went over at the same rate that we make now.

Don't do this.  FOR SURE get a COL increase.  And flights home, and tax preparation, and private insurance,* and a housing allowance, if possible.  London is EXPENSIVE and you should be financially rewarded for moving internationally - even though London's AMAZING

LEAN IN!

At the very least you'll be setting yourself up for a higher income base when you return home (i.e. they probably won't lower your pay when you repatriate).  I believe the US government has an international living cost comparison calculator that you can use to make your case.  

*Not a necessity, the NHS is fine, but private allows you to jump the queues, etc.

[mrsukyankee]

Big question - are you getting paid in dollars or pounds? I'd ask to get paid in pounds and to know what the salary is in pounds. I got paid the same units in pounds as dollars (ex. $45,000 versus £45,000) and had an even better lifestyle than I had in Boston. While London is expensive, if you aren't considering exchange rate but only units of money, it's actually not that bad for a city - you can rent at a reasonable cost compared to some (like NYC) and still live close to the city centre, food isn't that expensive and nor are a lot of other costs. I've lived in big cities on the East Coast and I'd say it's comparable to many of them.

Regardless - as expatpumpkin said, do ask for more than you might expect, such as flights, tax prep & private insurance (which I'd agree, isn't necessary as the NHS is fine, but private gets things going faster), and see if you can push for other things (like a housing allowance, school costs if you end up having children here, etc).

[amberlyrose]

Jul 2, 2015 3:17:51 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

Jul 1, 2015 21:44:31 GMT -5 expatpumpkin said:

Don't do this.  FOR SURE get a COL increase.  And flights home, and tax preparation, and private insurance,* and a housing allowance, if possible.  London is EXPENSIVE and you should be financially rewarded for moving internationally - even though London's AMAZING

I think being financially rewarded for moving to a place like London is happening less frequently now as people, like OP and her DH (and me), want to go abroad and it's no longer looked at as a hardship.  I've  had this conversation with others and while a COL increase would be nice at a bare minimum, frankly you might not get it.

That said, ASK FOR EVERYTHING AND LET THEM SAY NO.  I guarantee you things will be more expensive here than you expect, especially if you're not moving from a place like NY or SF.  I regret not asking for more, but then I'm also on a local and not an expat package which makes a difference in terms of how many perks to expect (e.g. no housing allowance).  Anchor your ask high and let them negotiate you down, don't screw yourself over by starting out too low and losing from there.

This would be us. He'd be a UK employee, not a US employee living overseas. 

[amberlyrose]

Jul 2, 2015 11:34:31 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

Jul 2, 2015 11:29:09 GMT -5 amberlyrose said:

This would be us. He'd be a UK employee, not a US employee living overseas. 

To be clear, you should still start high and let them negotiate you down, even as a local employee.

We will  

[amberlyrose]

Jul 2, 2015 11:49:17 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

Jul 2, 2015 11:40:52 GMT -5 amberlyrose said:

We will  

Good luck!  Keep us updated!

I will! I'm sure I'll have a million more questions to ask if he proceeds with the positions they are looking at him for

[expatpumpkin]

Good luck! I'm very excited for you guys as we LOVED London

[tortis]

Hi! My husband and I moved to Basingstoke in January for his job- same company as in the U.S. but now he is a UK employee rather than US.

Not much to add on the expenses since the others have covered it so well. I would mention that I think we spend the same amount on groceries as we did in the U.S. once you factor in the change rate, but we aren't in London and it's just the two of us.

We quite like Basingstoke, although I have this co versatile I a weekly basis:
"You're clearly not from around here! Are you on holiday?"
"No, my husband and I live here in Basingstoke!"
"Oh, Basingstoke..."
Apparently Basingstoke is seen as a large city, which is funny to me, but comparing it to many of the other English villages, it is admittedly pretty big.

Basingstoke has all the major amenities that we were used to at home, which I think helped with going from two cars to one. I can walk from our house to the supermarket (Sainsbury's) and there is a doctor's office (surgery), dentist, pharmacy, small grocery store ( the Co-op) and a day care at the front of my neighborhood. Basingstoke also has a large shopping centre/mall in the town centre.

We've taken the train into London many times, both during the week and on the weekends. If you are buying a return travelcard, which is good for a train ride into and home from London and includes an all day zone 1-4 tube ticket, it runs about 55£ in peak times and drops to 22-27£ off-peak. An all day tube ticket is 12£, so it's cheaper to buy the travelcard. more info : www.nationalrail.co.uk. There are two companies that travel into London from BSK- one to Paddington Station and the other to Waterloo. Both Paddington and Waterloo are tube stations as well so you can get off the train and into the tube easily. I think off-peak applied when you travel between 9am-5pm and then again after 7 pm, but again, I'd have to check.

We brought our two large dogs with us, so I can help a bit with questions on that procedure as we went through the process just 6 months ago. You can avoid quarantine if you comply with the following 1) all incoming pets must be microchipped, or have a identification tattoo (which is used in place of microchip and is on the inner ear I think?), 2) rabies vaccination AFTER being microchipped (our dogs were due for rabies updates and we weren't sure the order our shelter dog was chipped and had her first vaccine so we did these to be sure) and at least 21 days prior to travel, 3) a certificate of health issues by a USDA certified veterinarian issued no more than 10 days prior to travel, 4) tapeworm treatment no more than 120 hours (5days) and no less than 48 hours before travel, 5) entry form filled out and signed/stamped by both the vet issuing the health certificate and any vet who provides the above vaccines and then taken to the USDA office and certified by them. Note that the entry form for UK is different than the one for the rest of the EU and was updated in December 2014. Make sure your vet fills out the right one

I would start the dog process well in advance. As soon as you are positive you are going I would contact your vet to see if they have any experience with international transfers, or if they haven't, if they know any vets who have. We took several copies of each of our dogs full health records from our vets in Ohio and California in our carry on luggage. We also arranged for a direct flight from home East coast so it would be easier on everyone. We lived in the San Diego area and drove to Ohio for Christmas and New York for New Years, so we're able to fly direct from Newark to Heathrow. Direct from LAX is 11 hours, New York was 6.5, and when you add in the fact that the dogs have to arrive 3 hours before the flight made me think the flight times from LAX was too long.

I was very pleased by the way the dogs were handled on our flight and on our arrival at Heathrow. As soon as we were seated on the plane my husband mentioned to a flight attendant that we were flying with pets in cargo. She checked numerous times and was able to tell us they were still inside (it was very cold that day) and would board last and then again when hey were put on the plane. When we landed and pulled up to our gate, the van that receives the animals was primed and waiting and they were taken off first. When you land at Heathrow, the animals are taken to the Heathrow Animal Reception Centre (HARC) and are given the opportunity to go to the bathroom, then put in a dog run with food and water. If you have more than one dog, you can fill out forms allowing them to be put into the same run while their paperwork was processed.

As far as I can tell, our dogs did as well as I think they could. One thing I forgot to mention was that international flights require much larger crates than domestic travel. Our dogs are both 80lbs and thief crates are seriously enormous. One of our dogs has severe anxiety so we discussed with our vet who knows her very well (has seen her through multiple surgeries and rehabs) and she told us it would be safe to give Ella Xanax for the flight. We did a trial round and she did great with it so started the Xanax 12 hours before the flight and then one more dose right before she went into her crate. The airlines don't want you to give any sedative medicines but given how well she knew Ella, our vet said it would be better to keep her calm and that the Xanax wouldn't be an issue. She's very healthy over than some knee issues, so I felt comfortable with that decision. Our friends who have an 8 yo English bulldog decided not to put him through the travel what with his age and breed. Our dogs are 5 and 4. Last thing- you can't put toys in the crate but we put their beds in them and were allowed to do that.

Re: the actual relocation discussions with your various employers, I would try to make sure that the dog expenses are covered. We were able to expense crates, flight expenses, the vet work to get everything ready for animal customs, and the actual customs fees on the UK side. The flight coat is only about $200, but HARC and/or the airlines won't receive them unless they are "sponsored" by certain companies. Each airline works with a different company. That's the largest expense by far, and annoying because they really don't do much.

Other things to think about for relo packages are how your household items are going to be shipped (if via ship, do you get an air shipment as well- air is obviously much faster. We put clothes and kitchen things in our air shipment. Both ours and our friends sea containers were delayed by several weeks.). Do you get any sort of allowance for replacing electronic goods? You will have to replace things from hair dryers to televisions. We did buy heavy duty converters for a few things- we use our U.S. Xbox to watch our U.S. DVDs, as UK DVDs won't work in a U.S. DVD player, and vice versa. If your relocation package is ambiguous on something ask whether specific things are included. If something IS included ask to edit the relocation package /contract or at the very least get it in writing in an email (while I'm an attorney, I can't give legal advice here but seriously- everything in writing). Finally, what is the car situation? You will likely need at least one car. If you were living in London I would just say to skip it entirely because that seems miserable and you can get fees for driving at peak times. If you live further out you will need a car to get too/from work.

Final notes on things that surprised me- the council (property) tax is paid by the tenant, the TV tax, and how quickly good expires here

Whew, that got super long, but I wanted to weigh in with some Basingstoke specifics as well as dog info.

If you have any other questions about the above you can always PM me. Who knows- maybe our husbands work for the same company!

[amberlyrose]

Thanks tortis! I'll definitely be PMing you once we hear more about it