Can I give a flame-free confession?

[aw]

Who am I kidding, right? But I'm going to confess this anyways.

I've lost complete interest in this election. I've wavered between not voting in the Presidential election at all and just writing in something ridiculous. I dislike both candidates immensely.

But, after some of the threads yesterday I'm a little uncomfortable. When I hear people on the far left start talking about restricting access to ammo or that the 2nd ammendment no longer applies to our way of life or that we should cut our military budget in half (or more) or completely get rid of the military - I get scared. And then I start hearing people talk about how Obama is really going to get to work without the fear of a second term and I get really scared, mainly because I feel like I don't really know where this guy stands on any of this stuff.

It's probably how some of you feel when you hear me go on a religious rant and you start thinking about how you have to do whatever you can to keep crazies like me from ever having the power.

I thought a lot about the threads here last night and am now almost convinced that I might need to cast a vote for Romney simply because I think I know where he stands on these types of issues. At least he's not a wild card for me on the 2nd ammendment or other things that I view as important, even if voting for him is comprising my beliefs on other things.

I hate that we only have two parties and if I do end up voting for Romney I wouldn't be casting my vote in support of him at all, but rather in fear of another four years of Obama. And I really dislike that. I thought that maybe this would be the first election where I stopped caring and just voted on principle instead.

Am I alone in this? Am I overreacting to what was in those threads?

[Deleted]

I think both sides are scared of the possibility of extremism on the other side, but this is America and Congress fucks up anything the President wants to do so don't worry so much. We won't take your guns if you give us back our reproductive freedom thank you very much.

[ECB]

Aug 17, 2012 9:35:37 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

but this is America and Congress fucks up anything the President wants to do so don't worry so much.

Seriously. I take most of the promises made during election time w/ a grain of salt, quite honestly.

[pixy0stix]

As far as I know, Obama has never made any moves or stands on the second amendment. Usually when it's brought up, it's as a scare tactic from the right.

Also, there are many of us that don't give two shits about tightening down gun control, and/or are vocal against it. The debates seem to be split just about evenly on this board.

So... I'm not exactly sure what you are scared about.

[aw]

Aug 17, 2012 9:37:06 GMT -5 ECB said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:35:37 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

but this is America and Congress fucks up anything the President wants to do so don't worry so much.

Seriously. I take most of the promises made during election time w/ a grain of salt, quite honestly.

I'm not scared of anything the candidates have said, I get scared when I read some of the posts here. I start thinking, "Well if the majority of liberals here think that, then surely the majority of liberals in Washington feel the same way." Then I start worrying.

[Deleted]

Honestly, yes, I think you are overreacting to what was in those threads. Some people here are pretty far to the left; Obama really isn't. And just because someone on a message board or IRL may have an extreme idea of what should happen, that doesnt mean it has any chances in hell of happening.

What are you so scared of with another 4 years of Obama? That's an honest question. Romney scares me not bc of Romney but because of the far right, who I think he needs to get elected and therefore will be somewhat beholden to - so I'm worried about abortion rights, gay marriage, etc, particularly with respect to judicial appointments/nominees. But I think there is a reason to fear those things in regards to the far right (if you are to the left like me.)

Why do you fear Obama will significantly restrict the second amendment, etc?

[ringstrue]

Can you articulate exactly what is scary about it?

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2012 9:38:55 GMT -5 aw said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:37:06 GMT -5 ECB said:

Seriously. I take most of the promises made during election time w/ a grain of salt, quite honestly.

I'm not scared of anything the candidates have said, I get scared when I read some of the posts here. I start thinking, "Well if the majority of liberals here think that, then surely the majority of liberals in Washington feel the same way." Then I start worrying.

lol, theres like 2 liberals in washington. There are some more who might claim to be...but yeah. Least cause for alarm ever lol.

[pixy0stix]

www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/President/US/Barack_Obama/Views/The_Second_Amendment/

I don't know how trustworthy this is, but it seems fairly neutral.

His record, overall, is fairly neutral. Honestly, among my liberal friends, we are split on this issue. Even on this board the liberals are split.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2012 9:38:55 GMT -5 aw said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:37:06 GMT -5 ECB said:

Seriously. I take most of the promises made during election time w/ a grain of salt, quite honestly.

I'm not scared of anything the candidates have said, I get scared when I read some of the posts here. I start thinking, "Well if the majority of liberals here think that, then surely the majority of liberals in Washington feel the same way." Then I start worrying.

I don't think the majority of liberals want to do away with the second amendment. I don't like guns and I think we need more gun control honestly, but that is so far down my list of priorities that I don't really think about unless it comes up on a thread on here. I actually think the 2nd Amendment/gun control is an issue on here where the majority of liberals do NOT share one view. It is far from a unity horse.

[pescalita]

Aug 17, 2012 9:38:55 GMT -5 aw said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:37:06 GMT -5 ECB said:

Seriously. I take most of the promises made during election time w/ a grain of salt, quite honestly.

I'm not scared of anything the candidates have said, I get scared when I read some of the posts here. I start thinking, "Well if the majority of liberals here think that, then surely the majority of liberals in Washington feel the same way." Then I start worrying.

That's not true at all. Well, maybe some of them feel that way, but none of them could get reelected if they acted on it.

[aw]

I don't think I can pinpoint one specific thing Obama has said and done that scares me on this issue. I think overall it's just an attitude that I've heard him express about people like me that makes me side-eye him. It's the "clinging to their guns and their religion" stuff that makes me think he doesn't truly understand or agree with why the majority of gun owners feel so strongly about their right to bear arms. I guess I don't trust that he (just like any other candidate running for President) is being completely honest about how he truly feels about this issue. At least with Romney I kind of know where he stands (or at least who is pulling the puppet strings). Obama feels like a wild card to me sometimes.

To be honest, I'm surrounded by very few liberals in my life - two sisters and one MIL. But none of them have ever discussed wanting to change the Constitution on this issue like people discussed in that thread. And none of them have ever talked about the military the way some people did yesterday in the other thread. I guess I'm left wondering how many liberals really feel that way and whether or not I should be scared about it. Couple that with what I feel like is an agenda by the media right now to suddenly highlight every shooting happening in this country in order to set a stage for a gun control debate and I don't really know what to think...

[gretchenindisguise]

I'll be honest, I think it's completely odd to vote for someone based on what an extreme person (aka Kuus) posts on the internet.

Sent from my DROIDX using proboards

[ladybrettashley]

Aug 17, 2012 9:37:36 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

As far as I know, Obama has never made any moves or stands on the second amendment.

"the total lack of evidence is all the evidence I need. Methinks he doth too little too much. And if he gets away with this, what other things he's shown no signs of doing will he do next?"

[y4m]

Obama has a ton of anti-gun stuff in his record. He supported an assault weapons ban, the DC gun ban, and opposes concealed carry. www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/President/US/Barack_Obama/Views/The_Second_Amendment/


By the standard established this week in the Paul Ryan threads that any vote you've taken or thing you've said at any point in time is exactly how you'd govern (even if you have no history of making that issue a priority), AW is absolutely correct to be concerned about gun rights in an Obama administration.

[bhnumbers]

Aug 17, 2012 9:38:55 GMT -5 aw said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:37:06 GMT -5 ECB said:

Seriously. I take most of the promises made during election time w/ a grain of salt, quite honestly.

I'm not scared of anything the candidates have said, I get scared when I read some of the posts here. I start thinking, "Well if the majority of liberals here think that, then surely the majority of liberals in Washington feel the same way." Then I start worrying.

from what I've read of your posts this seems pretty ridiculous. this post and a few other not withstanding, you seem too smart to actually think this way.

when has Obama ever even come close to saying he wanted to do away with the 2nd amendment or the military? are you kidding me? even if he could (which he can't), he's given no indication that he would.

[Deleted]

I don't feel like I know where Romney stands on anything.

[emmybean]

I think you need to keep in mind that 1)the opinions most opposing to your own always stand out and seem to have more weight than they often do. And 2) this board is not a realistic cross section of voting public--or even the liberal voting public.

[aw]

Aug 17, 2012 9:52:00 GMT -5 @mx said:

Frankly, it seems downright dishonest to attribute the beliefs you have listed to the "majority" of liberals on this board or in this country. I don't think there is any data to support your claims. I don't know a single person (and I live in 98% D precinct in big, bad liberal DC) who believes in eliminating the military or or cutting it in half. Some of the most far left liberals I know are IN the military FFS.

I didn't mean to offend you. Like I said above, I don't know what the majority of liberals believe at all. As someone said, extremism on either side is scary and when you hear it voiced I think it is alarming.

And don't for one second pretend like there aren't many posters on this board who generalize every day about what conservatives believe. This is what we do. I guess I'm glad that people in this thread have posted to reassure me that my generalizations are wrong. I feel a little better.

[aw]

Aug 17, 2012 9:52:46 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

I'll be honest, I think it's completely odd to vote for someone based on what an extreme person (aka Kuus) posts on the internet.

Sent from my DROIDX using proboards

Meh. It wasn't just Kuus. Read through that thread and there are other posters talking about how they would support cutting our military spending in half. And read the second ammendment thread and look at how many other people are willing to restrict access to ammo or would like to see the Constitution rewritten on this issue. It's not one person, it's a combo of a bunch of stuff.

[mominatrix]

Aug 17, 2012 9:37:36 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

As far as I know, Obama has never made any moves or stands on the second amendment.

...except letting people bring loaded weapons into national parks.

[MrsAxilla]

What state are you in? There are only six states that even matter this year, and if you're not in one of them, then you can rest assured your apathy or third-party write in won't make one bit of difference.

[bhnumbers]

Aug 17, 2012 9:57:25 GMT -5 aw said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:52:46 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

I'll be honest, I think it's completely odd to vote for someone based on what an extreme person (aka Kuus) posts on the internet.

Sent from my DROIDX using proboards

Meh. It wasn't just Kuus. Read through that thread and there are other posters talking about how they would support cutting our military spending in half. And read the second ammendment thread and look at how many other people are willing to restrict access to ammo or would like to see the Constitution rewritten on this issue. It's not one person, it's a combo of a bunch of stuff.

but it's still just a handful of people on a random message board...

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2012 9:57:25 GMT -5 aw said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:52:46 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

I'll be honest, I think it's completely odd to vote for someone based on what an extreme person (aka Kuus) posts on the internet.

Sent from my DROIDX using proboards

Meh. It wasn't just Kuus. Read through that thread and there are other posters talking about how they would support cutting our military spending in half. And read the second ammendment thread and look at how many other people are willing to restrict access to ammo or would like to see the Constitution rewritten on this issue. It's not one person, it's a combo of a bunch of stuff.

The point about cutting the military spending in half though was that we could cut it in half and still have one of the largest militaries in the world.

[aw]

Aug 17, 2012 9:56:20 GMT -5 @mx said:

And I'm sorry that you think the media spends too much time covering horrific murders. When someone in my neighborhood gets shot (or when we have 4 people shot by one shooter as we did earlier this summer) I can't even get the word that it occurxeroxing the local media, much less the national outlets. If it wasn't for the police list serv or my own ears hearing the shots I would never even know that most shootings in my neighborhood happen. I guess the DC media is afraid to cover it because it would result in gun control.

Oh, please. The media picks and chooses which murders they want to cover. I'm talking about national news. Every day they have a large selection of horrific crimes to cover. Maybe my tinfoil hat is on a little too tightly, but it seems to me like lately they are choosing to only cover a specific type. And as we can see on this board, the coverage they have chosen is starting a gun control debate. I'm sorry, but I think it's deliberate.

[ringstrue]

Now I sorta wish the "change the 2nd amendment"convo had gone a bit deeper, but as I understand it, their suggestions were more along the lines of not simply "doing away" with it, but amending it to add something to prevent your normal joe from being able to acquire assault rifles and carrying them around innocent people.

[aw]

Aug 17, 2012 9:58:10 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

What state are you in? There are only six states that even matter this year, and if you're not in one of them, then you can rest assured your apathy or third-party write in won't make one bit of difference.

Ohio. Where we cling to our guns and our religion. But only in the rural areas. lol

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2012 10:02:20 GMT -5 aw said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:56:20 GMT -5 @mx said:

And I'm sorry that you think the media spends too much time covering horrific murders. When someone in my neighborhood gets shot (or when we have 4 people shot by one shooter as we did earlier this summer) I can't even get the word that it occurxeroxing the local media, much less the national outlets. If it wasn't for the police list serv or my own ears hearing the shots I would never even know that most shootings in my neighborhood happen. I guess the DC media is afraid to cover it because it would result in gun control.

Oh, please. The media picks and chooses which murders they want to cover. I'm talking about national news. Every day they have a large selection of horrific crimes to cover. Maybe my tinfoil hat is on a little too tightly, but it seems to me like lately they are choosing to only cover a specific type. And as we can see on this board, the coverage they have chosen is starting a gun control debate. I'm sorry, but I think it's deliberate.

I'm kind of confused by this statement. The national news does cover horrific crimes, and it covers things like mass shootings in movie theaters. If those things weren't worthy of national news I'd be a little worried about our society to be honest.

So yes, honestly, I think your tinfoil hat is on a little too tight with this one.

[ringstrue]

Aug 17, 2012 10:02:20 GMT -5 aw said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:56:20 GMT -5 @mx said:

And I'm sorry that you think the media spends too much time covering horrific murders. When someone in my neighborhood gets shot (or when we have 4 people shot by one shooter as we did earlier this summer) I can't even get the word that it occurxeroxing the local media, much less the national outlets. If it wasn't for the police list serv or my own ears hearing the shots I would never even know that most shootings in my neighborhood happen. I guess the DC media is afraid to cover it because it would result in gun control.

Oh, please. The media picks and chooses which murders they want to cover. I'm talking about national news. Every day they have a large selection of horrific crimes to cover. Maybe my tinfoil hat is on a little too tightly, but it seems to me like lately they are choosing to only cover a specific type. And as we can see on this board, the coverage they have chosen is starting a gun control debate. I'm sorry, but I think it's deliberate.

What sort of specific type? What do you think their goal in doing this is?

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2012 10:00:19 GMT -5 @mrsbecky07 said:

Aug 17, 2012 9:57:25 GMT -5 aw said:

Meh. It wasn't just Kuus. Read through that thread and there are other posters talking about how they would support cutting our military spending in half. And read the second ammendment thread and look at how many other people are willing to restrict access to ammo or would like to see the Constitution rewritten on this issue. It's not one person, it's a combo of a bunch of stuff.

The point about cutting the military spending in half though was that we could cut it in half and still have one of the largest militaries in the world.

Plus I think it is reasonable to say that the military budget is too big and should be cut, and still want a high quality military. There is plenty of money being spent on things which modern warfare hardly needs, for example. Thats where I would stand anyway.