Do you think you're going to resent him for essentially forcing you to do this?
Is he, though? I don't see it that way. It doesn't seem like to me that either of them are doing the best they can in this situation. They could continue to stay in the current location with things as they are, or she could get a job, or insist that he find another and/or better job. I don't know, the main thing I do know is that this is not a financial issue. It sounds as if she already has quite a bit of resentment and I'd be shocked if he didn't, also. Quite frankly, I'd be wondering if my husband was drunk if we had 3 kids, needed assistance from multiple sources and he was talking to me about some "deal" instead of getting a job.
@housegeek, is it too late for your husband to get the job you plan to get? I think it's time for a serious conversation. If I were you, I would sell your house. First of all, you need the money. You can pay off your debt and have some money to help get you settled into the new life and/or for an emergency fund. Second, I get that his parents are a huge help, but it sounds like they're the write the check variety and not the put in time variety (which is their absolute right, no judgment here). After they stiffed you guys on child care, I wouldn't be so excited to trust them to manage your property. Besides that, owning property in another place can be a huge headache and the last thing you two need is another headache. Part two of the conversation is that he needs to go after the job you are getting. It doesn't have to be permanent, but because he can apparently secure it from a distance and the salary is fixed, he needs to do it. Commit to it for a year. He can begin job hunting after 6 months and hopefully, by the time he reaches the one year mark, he will already have secured a new role. If not, he stays until he can find a comparable salary. Likewise, I think you should make a plan to commit for two years. After that point, you can reevaluate and decide whether it makes sense to return to the deal. But at least by then, you should have a solid emergency fund and obviously, no debt. You both can make the decision with from a place that isn't filled with stress and angst. Right now, I think it's crazy to be in the situation that you two are in talking about what jobs you don't want to work and where you don't want to live--you guys have way too many kids for that. You live where you must and you work where you must.
Ditto this. We own property in another state, and we have had a few unexpected large expenses (HVAC I issues, stove replacement). We have a management company (it's a vacation rental), which helps somewhat, but from a distance, it's really hard to,shop around for the best deal, and you can't DIY things that you might try to do on your own. Given your financial situation, it seems like keeping the house is a bad idea, unless you decide to move on a trial basis.
This is a really tough situation, and I don't have much to add. It seems like you are headed in different directions, but hopefully you can get back on the same track soon.
I understand your point about corrections jobs near you, but might it be worth applying, just to see how it goes? That way, it's not a question of choosing family as well as careers.
Honestly, he is either depressed because he can't hold up his end of the deal (and resents the hell out of you for throwing that in his face) or he's a lot further down the road of being done with this marriage than you are. I also think you're further along on that road than you're admitting to yourself.
You guys need to figure out a plan. What are the top 3 or 5 things he is willing to do? What are yours? Try to find something on both your lists.
Thanks. I agree. Maybe we can manage some one on one time tonight.
I don't want a divorce, but I don't like him so much lately. I imagine he's not so thrilled with me either, and thats ok as long as we can find our way through this.
Thank you for your thoughts everyone, its been helpful.
Is he, though? I don't see it that way. It doesn't seem like to me that either of them are doing the best they can in this situation. They could continue to stay in the current location with things as they are, or she could get a job, or insist that he find another and/or better job. I don't know, the main thing I do know is that this is not a financial issue. It sounds as if she already has quite a bit of resentment and I'd be shocked if he didn't, also. Quite frankly, I'd be wondering if my husband was drunk if we had 3 kids, needed assistance from multiple sources and he was talking to me about some "deal" instead of getting a job.
@housegeek, is it too late for your husband to get the job you plan to get? I think it's time for a serious conversation. If I were you, I would sell your house. First of all, you need the money. You can pay off your debt and have some money to help get you settled into the new life and/or for an emergency fund. Second, I get that his parents are a huge help, but it sounds like they're the write the check variety and not the put in time variety (which is their absolute right, no judgment here). After they stiffed you guys on child care, I wouldn't be so excited to trust them to manage your property. Besides that, owning property in another place can be a huge headache and the last thing you two need is another headache. Part two of the conversation is that he needs to go after the job you are getting. It doesn't have to be permanent, but because he can apparently secure it from a distance and the salary is fixed, he needs to do it. Commit to it for a year. He can begin job hunting after 6 months and hopefully, by the time he reaches the one year mark, he will already have secured a new role. If not, he stays until he can find a comparable salary. Likewise, I think you should make a plan to commit for two years. After that point, you can reevaluate and decide whether it makes sense to return to the deal. But at least by then, you should have a solid emergency fund and obviously, no debt. You both can make the decision with from a place that isn't filled with stress and angst. Right now, I think it's crazy to be in the situation that you two are in talking about what jobs you don't want to work and where you don't want to live--you guys have way too many kids for that. You live where you must and you work where you must.
Ditto this. We own property in another state, and we have had a few unexpected large expenses (HVAC I issues, stove replacement). We have a management company (it's a vacation rental), which helps somewhat, but from a distance, it's really hard to,shop around for the best deal, and you can't DIY things that you might try to do on your own. Given your financial situation, it seems like keeping the house is a bad idea, unless you decide to move on a trial basis.
This is a really tough situation, and I don't have much to add. It seems like you are headed in different directions, but hopefully you can get back on the same track soon.
I understand your point about corrections jobs near you, but might it be worth applying, just to see how it goes? That way, it's not a question of choosing family as well as careers.
I'm not so worried about the house. Like I said earlier, my In-laws co-signed on it and have been pretty much paying the mortgage for a year, they'll probably have the final say on keeping it, renting it, or selling it. I don't even know if we'll get the difference, although I imagine we would since my H is spoiled.
The corrections facility I'm applying for is a low level facility, its the nicest of the bad guys basically. Still sucky, but no pelican bay. Its not comparable to the one here, unfortunately. And thats just another line I drew, I wouldn't be comfortable working in a high lvl facility.
To the first quote, I gave DH 5 years from the time we moved from CA to support us, or I wanted to head back to CA and try again. (at the time, he agreed that was fair)I tried to get him to commit to 2 years in the job because at that point he can move within the department and away from inmate interaction if its so terrible, but he said no and refused. I was going to do 2 years with him, and whoever hated it most at that point could quit. It seemed reasonable to me, 2 years is nothing in the scheme of things.
You mentioned you receive food assistance. Ask your case manager about job training and daycare assistance. I know I'm in a different state, but those are offered here and could help your family. Your case manager may also be able to help you find free counseling services. Don't hesitate to call a church even if your not associated with them to ask about counseling services, many of them are willing to help, just be aware that the counseling will be coming from a church perspective.
I got my MA in history from a CSU, and had many classmates who were teachers with teaching certificates, or who were working on teaching certificates as well. If you would be near a CSU, a teaching certificate should seriously take him like a year. And private schools don't always require one. He could also easily do an MA part time while teaching and be done in 3 years or less. Assuming he wants to.
I used to work in corrections (not an officer, but I did have some inmate contact) and I LOVED that job! So don't automatically assume you'll hate it. But I'm guessing you'll have to work shifts, have you factored that in with childcare and stress levels?
I think maybe you are looking for a way to move back to your family/parents? Which I completely understand, I did the same thing! But does it have to be THIS job in CA or nothing else? There are NO jobs where you currently live?
Also, I agree with PP that "the deal" is over, at least for now. It may not be fair, but life happens!
You mentioned you receive food assistance. Ask your case manager about job training and daycare assistance. I know I'm in a different state, but those are offered here and could help your family. Your case manager may also be able to help you find free counseling services. Don't hesitate to call a church even if your not associated with them to ask about counseling services, many of them are willing to help, just be aware that the counseling will be coming from a church perspective.
I'm in the same state as the OP, and these services are absolutely available. Google New Jersey one-stop career centers----if you qualify, you and/or your DH can received free job training in in-demand fields.
You're in a tough position, and my heart goes out to you. I also think that there are far more options than this one scenario that you've concocted, and that if your marriage is going to survive you're going to need to consider multiple options. Best wishes to you.
You both sound a little bit too set in your plans, in my opinion. He refuses to move away and go in to a job he thinks he would hate and you are refusing to consider that there are options other than either staying or moving back to CA. You both are essentially saying "I'm going to do this and you need to go along whether you are unhappy or not" and that probably isn't going to work; one of you will need to bend or you will break. Ideally, both of you would bend a little and find a happy medium, but I don't know if that will happen. I would absolutely hate to have DH's parents support us and I would be mad at DH if he weren't trying to find a job but you mentioned that he looks for jobs every week. Have you considered taking out student loans so he can get his teaching credential? Does he still want to teach and is struggling with this because that is what he really hopes to do? If so, maybe there are options that need to be explored along this line. It was nice of you to give him 5 years but life happens and sometimes things don't go according to plan so giving 5 years then cutting and running may not be the answer.
I know corrections in certain areas of CA can support a family or at least come pretty close. We have five prisons within a 45 minute drive so there are a lot of people around here in the industry. I live in the area (or a similar COL area) that I assume you are talking about so I know the costs and I know what it takes to survive. I also know that I don't like this area of the world and DH and I are only here because of DH's job and family's ailing health. We plan to leave in 2-3 years and are very happy about the prospect. I can see why your DH wouldn't want to relocate here and I would never willing work in corrections either, so I get that. I also get that you would have family support, the pay is good, you/he could possibly transfer in two years, and so on. I really do understand the benefits of this so I understand that aspect and I agree that it may be a good option. However, I think there is much more to it that neither you or your husband have touched on yet. Why doesn't he want to move here? What is his plan if you didn't move? Is there anywhere else in the world that you two could live and be happy? Is it only one coast or the other and nowhere in between?
Did you also take into consideration union dues, retirement deductions, health, dental, and vision insurance deductions for the family plan? When it's all said and done what ends up in your pocket is significantly less than what you may initially expect. Of course that's all part of the benefits but would you be able to make ends meet on what you end up netting?
Then there's the shift work. It takes a toll on people. I am very familiar with corrections and have considered being an officer. I have spoke to many people about it and the one thing many hate is the night shift and how it takes a toll on you especially with rotating to day shifts every few months. I decided against that route right now with a toddler because of the stress of shift work even if the money would be decent in the end.
CA is a little pricey even in the LCOL areas. Gas is up there as are food costs.
You mentioned you receive food assistance. Ask your case manager about job training and daycare assistance. I know I'm in a different state, but those are offered here and could help your family. Your case manager may also be able to help you find free counseling services. Don't hesitate to call a church even if your not associated with them to ask about counseling services, many of them are willing to help, just be aware that the counseling will be coming from a church perspective.
I'm in the same state as the OP, and these services are absolutely available. Google New Jersey one-stop career centers----if you qualify, you and/or your DH can received free job training in in-demand fields.
You're in a tough position, and my heart goes out to you. I also think that there are far more options than this one scenario that you've concocted, and that if your marriage is going to survive you're going to need to consider multiple options. Best wishes to you.
I'm not in NJ anymore, I'm in NC. I've asked in the past, I'll ask again though.
Did you also take into consideration union dues, retirement deductions, health, dental, and vision insurance deductions for the family plan? When it's all said and done what ends up in your pocket is significantly less than what you may initially expect. Of course that's all part of the benefits but would you be able to make ends meet on what you end up netting?
Then there's the shift work. It takes a toll on people. I am very familiar with corrections and have considered being an officer. I have spoke to many people about it and the one thing many hate is the night shift and how it takes a toll on you especially with rotating to day shifts every few months. I decided against that route right now with a toddler because of the stress of shift work even if the money would be decent in the end.
CA is a little pricey even in the LCOL areas. Gas is up there as are food costs.
I'm actually hoping I can request for the graveyard shift. I used to love it when I was in the Navy, and it would be the easiest adjustment for the kids I think. I also don't think I'll hate it, simply because I loved being in the Navy and how consistent/regimented it was. Its hard to find that in other jobs.
I did take into consideration taxes etc, it'd still be more than we are bringing in now, and again, the guarenteed pay raises every 6 months are something I'm not going to be able to find anywhere otherwise due to a lack of work history and formal education.
I did live in CA all my life + 4 years of my adult working life, so I am not going into this move with my head in the clouds.
I'm in the same state as the OP, and these services are absolutely available. Google New Jersey one-stop career centers----if you qualify, you and/or your DH can received free job training in in-demand fields.
You're in a tough position, and my heart goes out to you. I also think that there are far more options than this one scenario that you've concocted, and that if your marriage is going to survive you're going to need to consider multiple options. Best wishes to you.
I'm not in NJ anymore, I'm in NC. I've asked in the past, I'll ask again though.
Oops---my misread; sorry! But these programs are federally funded, so they are available in all states.
You both sound a little bit too set in your plans, in my opinion. He refuses to move away and go in to a job he thinks he would hate and you are refusing to consider that there are options other than either staying or moving back to CA. You both are essentially saying "I'm going to do this and you need to go along whether you are unhappy or not" and that probably isn't going to work; one of you will need to bend or you will break. Ideally, both of you would bend a little and find a happy medium, but I don't know if that will happen. I would absolutely hate to have DH's parents support us and I would be mad at DH if he weren't trying to find a job but you mentioned that he looks for jobs every week. Have you considered taking out student loans so he can get his teaching credential? Does he still want to teach and is struggling with this because that is what he really hopes to do? If so, maybe there are options that need to be explored along this line. It was nice of you to give him 5 years but life happens and sometimes things don't go according to plan so giving 5 years then cutting and running may not be the answer.
I know corrections in certain areas of CA can support a family or at least come pretty close. We have five prisons within a 45 minute drive so there are a lot of people around here in the industry. I live in the area (or a similar COL area) that I assume you are talking about so I know the costs and I know what it takes to survive. I also know that I don't like this area of the world and DH and I are only here because of DH's job and family's ailing health. We plan to leave in 2-3 years and are very happy about the prospect. I can see why your DH wouldn't want to relocate here and I would never willing work in corrections either, so I get that. I also get that you would have family support, the pay is good, you/he could possibly transfer in two years, and so on. I really do understand the benefits of this so I understand that aspect and I agree that it may be a good option. However, I think there is much more to it that neither you or your husband have touched on yet. Why doesn't he want to move here? What is his plan if you didn't move? Is there anywhere else in the world that you two could live and be happy? Is it only one coast or the other and nowhere in between?
He doesn't really want to teach anymore, he sub'd quite a bit in NJ and he hated the politics of it. We've talked about him going back to school for years, and his parents offered to pay for it so... whatever, I guess.
He's been looking for a new job for essential 18 months. How much longer do I sit and say, ok, anyway now he'll find a job with promise, he really will... I'd say this California job is me officially breaking. I can't do any more of this "someday" stuff. The stress is taking a physical toll.
One of his reasons for not wanting to move back is the drought. Another is he hates CA politics. We had a really really rough time of it when we moved back initially (I was in the Navy when we met, in VA. I moved back to CA when I got out and he followed.) and I think that really tainted his view. (but I'm like, get over it.) We both want to stay near family one way or the other, but thats not even an excuse because at one point, and I'm sure even now, his parent's said they'd follow us to CA. Honestly though if we could pay our bills, have some savings and enough money for plane tickets home to CA once a year, I don't care where we are. We could be one of those crazy traveling families and I'd be ok.
We had job options (no guarantees, just so and so's friend is hiring kinda thing) in Kansas and he said no. I wasn't super sold on KS anyway so I didn't push it.
At this point, his family is not helping as much as they are enabling him. I would set an end date for their help so that there is some urgency to this situation and he and you are required to figure out a new life plan.
I also think there are issues on both sides.
SAH is a luxury and can only be a life choice if a family can afford it. When you are getting assistance from both family and the government, that luxury isn't an option. You may need to start out at or close to minimum wage, but if you kick butt at your job, you likely won't be there long. One good option might be a server position so you are above minimum wage AND you don't need daycare.
On his side, he absolutely needs a concrete plan. He needs to lay out the kind of career paths that he might want, and then pick one and figure out the concrete steps to getting there, whether that is getting a certificate or certification, joining an association to network with people in that area, setting up informational interviews, etc. If he cannot come up with any such plan, I can see why you're set on California and being close to your family.
I would have his parents watch the kids while you two go to a coffee shop and dream. What are his dreams and how does he suggest getting there, and what are yours? Where is the overlap? Can you pursue that?
If he isn't willing to start planning and dreaming and DOING, I am pretty sure that would be the end for me. He is too old to be acting like a kid at this point.
I don't mean any of this to sound harsh, and I'm afraid that it did. I wish you the very best of luck in whatever decision you guys come to, and I hope you keep us updated!
Post by lifeisinteresting on Jul 7, 2015 22:30:42 GMT -5
I am so sorry everything is so challenging right now.
I agree with other posters, counseling is a must. Look into free options at a local ( if nearby) college or church. You two need to be like minded. Right now you are going in 2 different directions.
Also it seems like your husband has basically deserted his marriage. He may be there in body but he isn't fulfilling his marital responsibilities. He has looked for a job for 18 months? That may not be unreasonable due to your rural area but it is unreasonable that he hasn't found something. Walmart, mowing lawns etc. there does need to be a plan that you both agree on and while divorce is never a great option, sometimes it is a necessary one and in this case with your husband sitting at home and not even attempting to make a better plan or ( by the tone of your posts) caring about his situation the line is drawn. There are 2 children to support and teach and my guess is this isn't what you want to teach them because by your post you are attempting to show a good work ethic. I would though while you are deciding to to work now. Local has store, babysit, clean houses etc. moving will be expensive but if the job is secure I may go.
I may be misreading this, but I am really getting the vibe that you are refusing to go to work because he said you wouldn't have to if you moved with him. Because really? You are letting his parents and the government support you. YOU Need to get a job.
You don't want half your income to go to daycare? Half sounds good to lots of people, in fact down right reasonable.
I wouldn't want to move across the country with you either. He is probably confused as to why you will only work in Ca but won't get a job right now. It sounds like an ultimatum " I'll contribute to the household only if I can live where I want. "
It seems like you haven't really explored options nearby... you just said that you wouldn't be an attractive candidate, but haven't really tried.
Honestly, I think you both need to set ground rules for a civil conversation (including "off-limits" topics), then privately make separate lists of possible concrete and workable solutions - locations, possible job opportunities, jobs you'd actually like to do, what you could do with the house, etc.
Then, bring those lists together, and see if there is any area of mutual agreement, or, a possible way out of this. HAve a real discussion.
I am so sorry everything is so challenging right now.
I agree with other posters, counseling is a must. Look into free options at a local ( if nearby) college or church. You two need to be like minded. Right now you are going in 2 different directions.
Also it seems like your husband has basically deserted his marriage. He may be there in body but he isn't fulfilling his marital responsibilities. He has looked for a job for 18 months? That may not be unreasonable due to your rural area but it is unreasonable that he hasn't found something. Walmart, mowing lawns etc. there does need to be a plan that you both agree on and while divorce is never a great option, sometimes it is a necessary one and in this case with your husband sitting at home and not even attempting to make a better plan or ( by the tone of your posts) caring about his situation the line is drawn. There are 2 children to support and teach and my guess is this isn't what you want to teach them because by your post you are attempting to show a good work ethic. I would though while you are deciding to to work now. Local has store, babysit, clean houses etc. moving will be expensive but if the job is secure I may go.
I have a family member who used to work in corrections and I would think long and hard before signing up. I would caution against looking at it as the silver bullet to save your family and your marriage. There is appeal in terms of decent pay, overtime and benefits, but the job itself is thankless and challenging, to say the least. My family member would work a 12-hour shift and then get told at the end that so many officers called in sick or just didn't show up that she had to work a second 12-hour shift. One of her coworkers crashed his car on the way home from a double shift because he was so exhausted. Those kinds of hours are not sustainable, especially with young children. I'd look into turnover rates at this facility and inquire about morale, for sure, before moving across the country.
Post by jeaniebueller on Jul 8, 2015 13:40:38 GMT -5
I think its been covered but the bottom line is that you can't afford to stay home and your current income does not cover your expenses and your lifestyle. I think you both need to let go of the "agreements" that you have discussed over the course of your marriage and try to solve this specific issue. Is the issue that you want to be closer to your family? I wouldn't move and take a corrections job in CA if you aren't sold on being in corrections. Especially because this is a cross country move. Has your H explored other job opportunities outside of your area? This is a serious issue, much bigger than the smaller issue of taking a job in CA. You cannot continue on the way you are. Would your H consider seeing a financial advisor, even if he isn't sold on marriage counseling?
This is what I keep circling back to as I read through this thread.
I know people who can survive on 44k/yr in CA but it's far from comfortable and all the places I can think of are super remote.
Also...$44k isn't a salary where I'd be willing to uproot my family.
I think I'd try selling the house, renting, and pursuing a job within the current area first. Or, selling and moving to a less rural area with better job opportunities. And if THAT doesn't work out, THEN looking at moving out to California. It's a huge move and whereas right now you're resentful for him not supporting the family, the resentment can easily swing the other way if you're strapped for income in California.
I don't know how a marriage can survive long-term, though, if you're not willing to discuss the issues. You should at least be coming up with a plan TOGETHER to support yourselves financially. Either of you making unilateral moves is not going to foster your marriage.
The more I think about this, the more I think you should take the advice of those who say to sell the house and rent someplace closer to civilization. You'd have more job options for one/both of you, less of a commute, and the family connection is a wash since you rarely see them anyway. They'd still be "close", just not in the same town.
The corrections job just sounds like overkill for a situation you guys could fix more locally if you made a few changes in your thinking. I mean, your H could probably tutor (even online tutoring) as a decent side gig, and you could get a night shift job if you move closer to the action.
Divorce with 3 kids comes at quite a price, particularly if you're geographically separated. I
worth highlighting. I would never advocate staying in an abusive, unsafe, or soul-sucking marriage, but the relationship between divorce and childhood poverty in America is real.
have you looked into local government jobs? you would get preference as a veteran, and the benefits are excellent. our local vet's hospital has a daycare on campus with a subsidy childcare program for qualifying families. you could likely apply for food prep, cashier, or sanitation services without much experience. I really think you're shooting yourself (and your children) in the foot by continuing to opt out of the work force.
. I really think you're shooting yourself (and your children) in the foot by continuing to opt out of the work force.
I 100% agree with this. I can't tell if you want to move back to CA to be closer to family (obviously nothing wrong with this) but using this golden opportunity there as ammo to move.
If you are content where you are, you can find a job locally. I don't think I would uproot my family and move across country for $40-45k.
I feel like this thread is all over the place, so I can't give great advice but it needs to be a decision that both you and DH make. Stay- you both find jobs. Even if daycare is half what you bring home, it's more than you make now. If you found a restaurant job you could likely pick up a Fri-Sunday shift while your husband is home with the kids and make a good amount of money. Sell your house and move closer to the city- cuts down on commuting/gas/time away from family. Sell and move across country- with or without your DH. I don't think you should force him into a corrections job but he needs to look for a job- in your current location or in CA.